I was asking for my own knowledge to try to understand where Koni is coming from, not to hear other's go off on a soapbox. Enjoy your day.

I don't even know where to start.

I can't believe the negative turn that this thread has taken.

Kobi, to quote you, yes, the following is correct:

>>>snip<<<

"A lesbian by definition is a female homosexual aka same sex.

A gay man, by definition is a male homosexual aka same sex.

A bisexual, by definition is someone who sleeps with both sexes.

A heterosexual, by definition pertains to opposite sexes.

These are not my definitions, they are the definitions of sexual orientation."

The following, according to my own perception and knowledge is also correct:

1. This website is not a strictly lesbian website. Some of the admins may be but it has always been stressed that it is open to everyone on the continuum of identity and sexuality.

2. I did not know that when I arrived here. I was surprised. I had thought it was a butch femme lesbian site.

3. I quickly realized that how I did lesbian was not the same as everyone else's and if I did not like it or did not feel comfortable here: I could simply move on.

4. I decided to learn, to grow, to work on being less judgmental and rigid in my thinking.

5. I do not think that it is homophobic for any LGBTQ person to identify themselves however they see fit and for whatever may feel comfortable.

6. I am a lesbian. I only date, fall in love with and have sex with female-identified butch lesbians. I will always jump in when I feel lesbians are being attacked, put down or if lesbiphobia is going on.

Example, I read the following sentence and did not like it at all: "I have found that lesbians are the most judgmental in accepting of all lgbtq".

It is those kind of generalizing statements that push my buttons. It would be as though I would say, "I find that trans folk are the most judgmental...".

Let's not lump all people in one pile please! Some lesbians are judgmental. Some trans folk are judgmental. Some people, in general are judgmental.

Have folks given thought to how some lesbians may be feeling? Especially older lesbians? As a group, in the LGBTQ, community, we may have become more inclusive and our circle has widened, but as a lesbian, there are fewer female-butch lesbians than there used to be.

Many butch lesbians find, through the process of finding their real, true self, that they want to transition. That is good for them but as a lesbian, sexually and emotionally attracted to female-identified butches: I have a sense of loss. A loss of another lesbian. That is not transphobia. That is reality. One can take that personally or one can gain a little understanding of where some lesbians may be coming from. I say some because I can't speak for all lesbians!

None of us can speak for others. Perhaps we can offer some different perspectives and hopefully, we are willing to be open-minded enough to learn and grow from it.

I hope that in the same way, we need to understand the journey of a trans person and be able to put ourselves in those shoes; that trans folk can also understand where some lesbians may be coming from.

I think that as a community, we will self-destruct if we do not accept each other. I do not feel that anyone, anywhere gets to identify someone else. We just do not have that right.

Yes, there are scientific definitions of every sexuality and identity but as human beings, we get to define ourselves. We get to decide how open and accepting we are.

I define lesbian my way.

I fought hard to do that and no one gets to tell me I am wrong.

No one.

I remember the old site... I'm not trying to disrespect anyone on here but for someone to make it seem like peoe who aren't cut and dry just lesbians is disrespectful in itself.ty Dapper foe your input..

I agree...I find the "We must adhere and keep to lesbian ideas of purity" to be repugnant since I did not fit into what they considered "lesbian" when I first came out. I was shunned within the lesbian community because I did not "fit" their ideas about what being lesbian was. Seriously, fuck those kinds of social constructs.

Glad so me one else gets it... I was born different and I wont let anyone define who or what I am.. people need to band together not drawn lines in the sand... if the l gbtq community dont support each other then We will continue to struggle to be equal in the eyes of the world and with each other

First no one said do by be proud too be a woman.. I said don't make your views the ma factory view.. I never said anything about your political views either so don't k ow where that is coming from.. it seems to Me someone mistreated you so now you don't like that which you were seen as.. that's not My fault it's societies fault... I ha e had to use the male bathroom since I was 15 do to no doing of Myh own do I k ow very well about the struggles and bei g called faggot and Dyke and freak... Mobil you do you bud I am done with this thread as it is called ask trans anything and no. Trans are in here mucking it up.. have a good weekend and try to let that chip on your shoulder go.. I am not the enemy.. narrow mindedness is

Folks:


We have had some reported posts in the last couple of days so let me clarify a few things so that we can keep this discussion moving:

1. This is a queer site, not just a lesbian site, and most certainly not just a site for Butches and Femmes.

2. The Butch and Femme Community has always consisted of people who identify in all different kinds of ways. That is not always comfortable for other people but we need to be focusing on how we identify within ourselves and not policing how other people identify.

3. Who you fuck does not determine how you can identify. That is a patriarchal notion that often subjugates women and gay men based on who gets penetrated, and obviously that's bullshit.

4. Gender is fluid, unless it isn't for you. Identity is contextual, unless it isn't for you. Your Feminism may adjust based on your experiences, unless it doesn't. Bottom line, how you do you is your business and how other people do them is their business. That doesn't mean we don't question bad behavior or call out sexism, but when it comes to personal identity politics maybe we can put more energy into listening to each other and less energy into telling each other who you must be based on my own narrative.


Also? It is super problematic to have folks who don't identify as Trans in a Trans thread telling Trans people about their lives as much as it is having folks who don't identify as Lesbian in a Lesbian thread telling Lesbians about their lives. Let's be conscious of one another's space, ok?


Thanks,
Angie

Sorry about that. I shouldn't have tied it to your post.

Ok then!!
 

So, who has a question they want to ask a trans person? :deepthoughts: Welcome to the site, Esme! Sorry, it got all wonky.

(Chuckle) you've no need to apologise to me, m'dear!

I do have a question, actually. Did anyone else - MTF or FTM - initially go for the societal stereotype of how they perceived their correct gender to present, then over time find that that's maybe not the best fit for who they are?

Absolutely... I wore the dresses and makeup and tried to be a "WOMAN" but because of My CHA I just excepted that I have no gender genetically so now I am male identified and happy as I am..

Hey Dapper!
Thanks for your thoughts.
Unfortunately, when I was going through the surgery with my ex, I was naïve at best. I supported him fully with his transition, but honestly had no idea what I was really getting involved with. I wish we would have seen a therapist!!!! I guess the point was that I was overwhelmed by the responsibility of his care after surgery :)

As far as my other questions, I am talking about a Trans man dating any female. (straight or gay) I have had this conversation with trans men and several felt that it was their right to not disclose transitioning. So, in essence their date is blind to the whole story... what if it goes further???? what if they end up making out???? Is that fair? Or is the date an ass because when they get to that point of making out, she is not ok with either the fact he is trans or the fact that he wasn't honest???

Hope that cleared it up :)

The anger expressed earlier with identity issues is exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post. These are the responses I got when I dated a trans man. I cannot speak for others, but it is hurtful and closed minded and makes me feel quite uncomfortable.

Oh I wasn't apologizing for what I wrote one bit. I was apologizing to JDEERE for hijacking that post. I should have just replied without the quote.

Hi, there. No, my "way of being", male is not out of sync with the other males in my social group/area I live in. I have always been masculine. I am not around any tobacco chewing, crotch grabbing guys which IS a place where I would stand out like a sore thumb.

I know what you are talking about though. Some trans people feel pressure to "fit" that super feminine or super masculine ideal. They worry about "fitting in " for a number of reasons....for example, some trans women might feel they need to fit society's definition of female because they want to prove to themselves they are "real women", or they feel a need to prove to cis folks that they are "real women", or feel a need to "prove" it to other trans women. So they feel they have to be super feminine, exactly what society expects, etc. It is horrid. I think it is more horrid for trans women than for the trans men. And when trans men try to go all super macho (in a way that isn't natural for them), it just makes me chuckle.

I have heard this more than once though. I not super masculine trans guy, or a not so super feminine trans woman, go to the extreme to fit in...eventually they say fuck it! and just become themselves.

What has it been like for you? Seeing that you identify as "tomboy", I assume that means you aren't super girly. Has that been rough? When you first transitioned, did you feel like you had to start out super girly? Were you worried that the UK wouldn't pay for your surgery if you didn't fit the narrative?


I never watched the Transformers. I was too old by the time they came out.
They were cars that changed into robots/super heros/monsters, right? So they were what and you wanted them to turn into what? And the what was then you?

And you pulled a turkey bone on it? That is serious desire dude, you're right.

I've had the same wish at every b-day cake, shooting star, time the clock say 11:11, since I was 16. So, like yeah, I win like everything.

This is what I thought you were asking. I will clarify it here... you are asking us trans people if we think that trans men who are socially transitioned and live as men (who are assumed to be cis male), should "come OUT" to their potential dating partners?

That is a very sticky difficult discussion to have. Some trans people are extremely passionate about it, on either side of the debate.

The thinking is that if we tell people that if they are trans they should tell a potential date, we are saying that we don't see them as to who they really are. They are not saying they are men. The thought is well, do we expect men with erectile dysfunction to say that going in? Do you expect someone who had an accident and don't have a "normal penis" to share that prior to the first date? No, we don't. So, why should we expect ourselves to do that?

Me, I tend to say it is up to the trans person. I also haven't been in the situation where I wanted to date someone who didn't already know I was trans. For me, personally, if I did a personal ad I would put it in there. I don't want the hassle of dating someone only to learn that are only open to dating a man who has a natal penis.

Great question to discuss on this thread.

Um, by 'correct' I meant the gender one identifies as, DaddyChrisCo - so in my case female. I dived happily into skirt-suited office worker/disco-dolly for an evening out. Over time I've drifted toward jeans-and tank-tops being my normal attire, only occasionally do I wear skirts now.