Okay Snow, no Dylan in the equation. The title of this thread uses the word "breeder," so I'm not sure how to talk about how hurtful that word is, without using the word. We could say b******.

For me to talk about that word and how it has harmed me, I would talk about patriarchy. But that's me.

Not trying to nag, but just not getting how I'm not on topic.

Heart

weighing in when I probably shouldn't....
 

I would love to hear what you have to say about the word, including the patriarchy part.

Hey pretty girl!

I did it already this morning. His ass is officially kicked.

I don't like the term, because it's obviously hurtful. Dylan and I know that. I wouldn't refer to my mom that way, nor would Dylan. I think though I have used it in the context of saying that "patriarchy expects women to be as such" when clearly women are not and should not be seen as such.

But then we've already had the round and round discussion on that.

We respect women. Dylan respects women (or I wouldn't be with him).

One last note...I repped Sue to say that when I was a caseworker with CPS years ago, judges actually used the term (and one in particular here in Austin) to throw at women to make them feel bad for having so many children without thought as to what was happening to the children. Fathers were referred to as "sperm donors" and the mothers, just vessels for that, or the B word. It was gross and humiliating for women. Nevermind that the judge did not realize in one particular case that the woman had been gangraped oh say 7 or 8 times. Nevermind that in another case a woman had been raped and decided to keep and struggle through raising her daughter. Nevermind any of that.

**ETA** (I am not saying or condoning that a judge should ever use the term against women, but am pointing out specifically how assumptions were made and placed on the women despite her circumstance, which is some really fucked up shit all the way around, so please don't misread me here! Thanks.)

And Snow: Will you please buy me a cuppa coffee instead? I promise, I am much better company!!!

as would I although, perhaps not on this thread?

After reading through this thread and responses to words used in other threads perceived as 'offensive', I have to say I am sitting here with a wrinkled brow.

I am thinking that some here just enjoy debating, some here are supersensitive to word choices, some are narcisstic, some are referees, some are educators, some are activists.

I agree that words are powerful weapons and powerful expressions of thought. We, humans, in years past were raised by the rules determined in our small corner of the world in which we were raised. This includes morals, ideas, spiritual belief, image of self,
image of others and opportunities. IMHO, when we are adults, we have the ability to decipher whether what we were exposed to growing up 'fits' into the collective Society(whatever it is). I firmly believe in exchange of ideas and opinions. What I strongly object to is the 'one ups' some seem to have in response to another's opinion. I don't think anyone should have to defend what word or phrases they find offensive. If it offenses anyone, than once I you're aware of it. Dont repeat it! (unless of course that is your intention than the you 'deserve/wish' to be dissed)

What I suggest is a thread where members can identify words/phrases that they find offensive.

This from a mother, grandmother, woman, femme, lover of stones, human being.

I am confused by all this right....

I can't understand how someone asking for the word breeder not to be used to describe a woman's pregnancy can not be understood..

I am not stupid I understand the patriarchy, and what was hammered into us.

But can't it be understood that maybe when some of us hear that word, it makes us cringe, cause god damn I was pregnant, not bred, and it was a terrifying, happy, life altering experience..

It fucking SUCKS to have it reduced to nothing when someone calls you a breeder or refers to it as a breeder thing or have been bred or any insinuation of that...

Can't you get that? Cause that is what we are saying at least I am.

Damn, it would be like me being an inconsiderate ass hat and refering to someone as hy when they are she...


end of rant.

That was the original intention of this thread.

Why the hell not in here?

We aren't some frail wall flowers who can't hear the word. damn.

Let's have the hard discussion about the word. How it's used to oppress, to describe, and to hurt women with..

It's what this thread is about hurtful terms here lemme requote the title of the thread for ya..




I even emphasized it for ya

Right????

:seeingstars:

Ok, now wait a minute, because when I brought up that exact conversation...you said not to use the word.

When I made the points you've said here regarding the patriarchy, you said you didn't want to hear the word because it's been used against you and you're sensitive to it.

So what is it? You want to have the conversation, or are we not allowed to say the word. I'm getting mixed messages


Dylan

yanno..

I am done...

I think I have explained over and over and over what I meant.

Use the word, don't use it I don't give a fuck at this point

I'll share.
 

I've used the term in reference to straight women because, if I'm being honest, it was a way to disparage them and their choices in order to make me feel better about the fact that I did not have children/family of my own/picket fence (and at that/those moments DID want that). Let's face it, it's a mean/ugly word used to put someone down and elevate oneself. Why do we do that? For my example, I'd say it was #2.


Why We Judge (just a little list found on the internet w/ a quick search)

1. We don’t know how to love.
2. We are insecure.
3. We are influenced by our past conditioning.
4. We are afraid of something in someone else.
5. We are afraid of something within ourselves.
6. We are hiding the fact that we don’t understand something.
7. Our position of power feels threatened.
8. We are unaware about how our thoughts become reality.
9. We aren’t evolved enough to have empathy for others.
10. It’s a habit.

Alright. I get what you're saying.

My original use of the word was in a patriarchal sense in that women have been viewed as baby making machines (aka breeders) for thousands and thousands of years. It's laced and woven into each of the three main religions that have ruled western society.

It's even the basis for this whole "mothers are saints" idea that has seeped into this thread. Becoming pregnant is not necessarily a 'sacred' act. It's a biological process. Giving birth doesn't automatically make any person a sacred being, saintly figure, loving person, or exalted being. It simply means a biological process has taken place. Yet, once again...thanks to patrairchy, when a person (generally a married woman) completes this process that person is seen as a sacred being (mother mary full of grace) (unless that person is unwed, at which point that person (meaning the woman) is seen as 'soiled'.

And yes, I'm speaking patriarchally and not about myself, particular people, ALL men, etc


Dylan

When I came out to my family, I was around 24 years old. One of my Uncles told me he was said because he really thought I would have been a wonderful mother.

I can't remember what happened yesterday, but some comments live forever in our memories, don't they.

Just an FYI

I'm a he...not a hy or hym


Thanks,
Dylan

End Derail

Right?

My mother was/is upset, because she'll "never have grandchildren"

It was one of the first things out of her mouth

When I was about 10ish (I guess...I don't really remember), my mother also told me, "One day you'll meet a man like your [step] dad and have a bunch of kids"

Her nice catholic upbringing left her feeling like a failure, because she never had twelve kids. And naturally, I was supposed to follow in the footsteps of her 'dream' to have a shit ton of them.

And ironically, she was considered the town Hester Prynne because she'd had one out of wedlock...and considered herself such on top of being a failure for not producing 11 more kids. It was (still is) a completely fucked up (patriarchal) view. A woman isn't 'useful' unless she produces boatloads of offspring...but even if she DOES produce boatloads of offspring, if she doesn't do it FOR a man, she's still considered 'bad' (as evidenced by Firie's comments re: judges' comments that women are breeders...even if they're raped).


Dylan