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YOWZA! i want to be that beautiful when i grow up! :thud: |
a very different perspective
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what if the perspective on this story was told from the fat girl's side? i've waited a few days to respond to this and tried to read and re-read so that i understood. i know that i have only my perspective. i know that the intent of this post is to relay a personal experience. i also know that it really triggered some painful feelings in me. that's on me. my feelings are mine and no one is responsible or accountable for personal feelings except for the person to whom they belong. Jet...you are someone of whom others think well, a reputation that i'm sure is well deserved. you are kind to many and patient with several and you have the heart and soul of an artist...something which makes you able to see beauty in all things. but the words highlighted in red above are meant to call out the ways in which i find your post hurtful and derogatory. i'm positive that you dont think of them that way. i hope you will consider looking at them from another point of view. in no way do i think anyone should lie about their intentions or feelings regarding their relationship or friendships. i dont think that breaking up via email is acceptable when it's possible to talk face-to-face. but i dont think that anything happens in a vacuum. many of us are trauma survivors. it's not anyone else's responsibility to put our needs ahead of their own, trauma or not. i am sincerely sorry that you were hurt and let down. i dont imagine that your Southern Belle was perfectly happy though, otherwise there was no reason for her to break off contact with you. i suspect that she felt let down as well. i have to wonder if some of your disappointment in her weight was obvious to her. did she feel rejected by you because you felt the things you wrote above? you meant them as accepting...but they arent necessarily so. i found them very wounding and even bordering on offensive. because i believe in my heart of hearts that you didnt mean them that way, i choose not to indulge the feelings of offense. but they're still hurtful in the same ways that comments like this have been damaging to most people who dont conform to a cultural ideal of weight for as long as we can remember. you say she was the sort of woman that you could love forever, but then you were shaken in your belief by her physical presence. how could you have expected to hide that? i promise you, she knew it. you said no stone was left unturned in your discussions on the phone. did you tell her that if she weighed more than you thought she did you would be disappointed? you said she gave no "valid" reason for your breakup. how do you know that? you dont understand how she felt. that's obvious because you label her reasoning for breaking up with you as invalid. worse, you place all of the reasons for disappointment (and nobility) squarely in your court. it's as though she had absolutely no reason to break up with you. and yet she did. so, is she insane? did she not fail to understand how grateful she should be that you were willing to "handle" your feelings about her weight? you said that your relationship was based on trust and that you thought she was a person of integrity. she trusted you too. you were obviously disappointed in her looks when you met. how could she trust you after that? how could she believe in you...in your integrity...after a moment like that? she said she was 40 pounds within her goal but you thought she looked like she needed to lose 140? what was her goal? was it incremental? i dont want to lose 50 pounds. i want to lose 5 pounds. when i lose it, then i want to lose 5 more. some people want the milestone...not the final number. i have a pal who wants to weigh less than 200 pounds and so his goal is 199. a lot of people look like they weigh more or less than they do. that perception changes with what we wear, whether or not we have good posture (that's a biggie actually) and our moods. that applies to all body sizes and shapes. she told you her photos were out of date and she weighed more at that time then she did in them. you werent left in the dark and you lead your reader to believe that at one point it made no difference to you what she weighed. your words go on to prove that this isnt true. this woman believed that you were attracted to WHO she was. you said so to us, so i imagine you said so to her as well. imagine her dread when she saw the disappointment in your expression. everything she believed about you was shaken to its core....maybe because you were "floored" by her body size. you say she was "obese". according to the 7th edition of the columbia medical encyclopedia (2008), obesity is defined as being 20% over one's ideal body weight. they note the "maximum appropriate weight" for my height as 159 pounds. that means that i'm obese at 190.8 pounds. i love that definition of obesity!!! you hugged her and didnt flinch? really? again....was she supposed to be grateful for that? it sounds as though you had to exert a lot of effort not to be disgusted by her. if i can feel that message in your words, she definitely felt it in the energy of your actual presence. saying you didnt "flinch" at her size makes it sound as though 1) you had any reason to and 2) that she should be grateful you didnt also scream, vomit...and run. she wasnt the person she "sounded" like? her weight made her less intelligent? less charming? less the beautifully composed and delightful woman you fell in love with on the phone? how so? how did her weight detract from her character? if she lied to you...then she's a liar. that has nothing to do with weight. and, i might venture to guess, that she probably felt rejected because of weight before meeting you. lying about weight isnt the greatest way to make sure that rejection never happens again...but it's certainly not uncommon....and not unexpected given the "i didnt even flinch" attitude of our peers. you "handled" the discovery that she was fatter than you expected? this is one of the most painful things i've ever heard coming from a guy. it sounds as though you want to be congratulated for taking control of the sudden and complete abhorrence you felt for the woman you wanted to marry. i hope no one ever "handles" their feelings with regard to my looks. if i ever discover that someone finds me so wholly unacceptable because of the way i look, but has elected to "handle" their feelings, i'll issue them their walking papers so fast they wont have time to take a single breath between meeting and departure...because THEY wont be good enough for ME. you collected yourself throughout the day? my god how horrible this must have been. for her. to watch you go through this agonizing process of trying to come to terms with the fact that she wasnt good looking enough for you must have been one of the most painful things she ever experienced...since she had believed up until that point that you loved her deeply. you felt her weight was secondary to falling in love and getting married. so it was on your agenda to do something about? what if she had been perfectly happy with her size? would you have refused to marry her? you felt that you made the biggest mistake of your life going to atlanta to be with the woman who was, to all appearances, your soul mate because she appeared to be larger than you expected? that must have hurt so much Jet! it must have hurt her so very much to discover that you, someone she trusted and believed in and cherished, looking down on her because of her weight...you the guy she thought she could trust to see her...really see her...and love her, not in spite of her size, but because it didnt matter what her size was as long as she was actually the intelligent, charming, funny, compassionate, interesting, composed woman she showed you that she was. imagine her pain at discovering that you werent certain she was worth the trip because she wasnt a particular size or shape. it took her 6 weeks before she gave up on your relationship. your doubt took over the moment you met her. she never had a chance with you. she was right Jet. it wouldnt have been a good fit. you're better off loving a woman who doesnt require you to control your aversion in order to touch her or consider the issue her looks something that needs to be handled. just a different take on the story :hippie: |
My personal Favorite
Because it's got the blue plate dresses.. and I love the blue plate dresses..
http://www.alight.com/index.html |
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ooooooh! i LOVE blue plate! :goodscore: alight.com is one of my FAVORITE shopping websites! i love their sales! there's always something i want and sometimes just waiting a few weeks means even lower prices! :pile: do you think we have enough people for a fan club? :groupphoto: |
Just went and peeked. Awesome :)
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Betenoir-It's a little stressful to think of Lane Bryant only using models from sizes 12-16 - since I am willing to bet that NO people who wear those sizes shop at Lane Bryant. They don't have to. So why would they? I am actually a little surprised at this statement...If you were to make that bet you would be dead wrong. Depending on the manufacture I wear anywhere from a size 12 to an 18. I shop at lane bryant, Ashely Stuart and all the rest on a regular basis. I do agree its BEYOND fucked up that a disportionate amount of "PLUS SIZE" models are just "slightly heavier" versions of "regular" models....and it is particularly disgusting to see a company that makes there money from curvaceous women subscribe to this outrageous practice. I was confused about why you would be surprised by my statement...until I looked up a couple of size charts. Seems that the US and Canada size things differently. I wear an 18-20 in Canada...apparently I wear a 16-18 in the US. Who knew? So when I read sizes 12-16 I thought those were like Canadian 12-16...who absolutely wouldn't be shopping in a Plus Size store. Because, you know...if you didn't have to why would you? Plus size stores are -way- more expensive, the selection isn't as great, and there is that awful tendency to make the clothes incredibly ugly. That alight store looks awesome, by the way. Love love love. I almost licked my monitor. |
sigh. . .
http://www.megansminute.com/images/2...izeameri_2.jpg
".....the phrase "plus-sized model" is a relative term. Whitney [Thompson...the 'PLUS SIZED' winner of a cycle of "America's Next Top Model" a few months back] says she's a size 10 and though in the modeling world, that's considered big enough to call for a forklift, in the real world that's considered, dare I say it...pretty normal. Yikes. This sort of thing makes normal girls feel even worse about themselves. They see this fairly trim woman being praised as “plus-size” and then think, “Well, if that’s plus-size, I must be grossly obese!” |
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apparently she was repeatedly told that losing 4 inches from her hips would make her "model material". |
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Actually, I did some googling around (because, you know...if you read it on the internet it MUST be true) and it seems that the size 10 America's Next Top Model girl is smaller than average. Seems that the average dress size for women in the US is about 14.
Which means that this supposed Plus Size model is thinner than well over 50% of American Women. Which means that it's a vast conspiracy to try and make well over 50% of American Women feel like shit. (oh! I totally found a new hobby! I just spent a solid 5 minutes grabbing and shaking my belly roll and giggling! Way better than xbox! Cheaper, too!) |
I was...
[QUOTE=Ol' Jet;34950]I want to tell you a story. I met someone I came to fall love with on line. We were on the phone 24/7 for 6 months while I lived in Colorado with my family. We talked about everything—and I mean everything to get to know each other.
I had never grown to love anyone or be so enamored with a woman until I met her. Trust me when I tell you I was completely carried away by her southern charm, her voice, her eloquence, and presence. I loved everything about her—that certain southern sexiness being from Atlanta; her views on life, and her intelligence. I loved the way she thought and most of all, how she responded to me as a transman. She was absolutely the kind of woman I could ever hope to be in love with. And I grew to love her, sight unseen except for a few pictures she sent. As time went on, I wanted her to the point of marriage and for her to be the one to kiss me goodbye for the last time—as my life partner. Our relationship was based on trust— no stone was unturned about our lives, families and our experiences even as far back as childhood. We laughed and cried and shared over and over. Many times we talked about our health being in our 50s—our weight, exercise and diets. When she sent her pictures she was heavy set and she told me they were out of date and that she was on a diet because she was determined to lose weight. I gave her kudos and encouraged her to keep going. She said she was 40 pounds within her goal, and to me, that was nothing. She had planned to come to Denver to meet me, and it always failed because of something on her end or mine—logistically is just never happened. Meantime I had sent her my art and she told me that I needed to be in Atlanta, and that she, herself, being in the corporate world had never seen designs as inventive or of the same level or caliber. She had opened the door for me in thinking of Atlanta as a career move instead of Denver. Naturally, being crazy about her, I came to Atlanta. Since we had never met in person beforehand, we made a pact and promised each other that if for some reason, we didn’t hit it off or it didn’t work, we would be great friends because we liked each other and had so much in common. So what did I have to lose? I landed in Atlanta and she picked me up at the airport. I was excited, nervous and I couldn’t wait to meet her. When she pulled up and got out of the car, she looked as though she more like 140 pounds within her goal not 40; she was obese and much heavier than her pictures. I won’t lie to you, I was floored. I had on sunglasses and she asked me to take them off because she “knew” I would be blown away and she wanted to see my expression. I took them off, kissed her, hugged her and didn’t flinch once. What blew me away the most was that she wasn’t anywhere near the person she sounded like. But I handled it and this is how: First, I fell in love with her, not her weight. I fell in love with an incredible woman filled with poise, intelligence, grace and an unspeakable presence that draws you to her. As I collected myself more and more throughout that day, I felt that weight could be dealt with and that it really was secondary in the scheme of falling in love and wanting to marry her. At the same time, I also felt I had made the biggest mistake of my life coming to Atlanta to be with her because she had misrepresented herself. I struggled with my feelings because I felt split down the middle. But I believe in honoring what I say and I was determined to give things a chance and eventually decide between the two of us if things wee going to work out. We had made a promise that if it didn’t work out we would remain friends. Besides, being with her, her weight never once overshadowed her demeanor or the qualities that had attracted me to her. But then came clincher: We lived apart when I came to Atlanta and so we would spend 4-day weekends at my apartment. The sixth weekend arrived and she left to help her daughter who was in major drama and crisis. She never returned — not once and without so much as valid explanation. In emails that followed she said we wouldn’t be a good fit and gave other reasons that never warranted her leaving or the fact that she didn’t want to be friends. When I read them to my friends and family they couldn’t believe it. I was livid and hurt and on a rollercoaster of feelings that ran the full gamut. I was willing to see it through and she walked out on me. Forget the weight. She completed destroyed the image I had of her as a woman of integrity. Talk about stunned? She left me in a strange town, no car, no bearings or direction, no help and no real explanation. Remember, I’m a trauma survivor which she knew about. So the shock of leaving me almost sent me over the edge; she could have killed me. The poetry in my thread, The Dancer of Atlanta, are about her with the exception of Rio Rio and Rocket 88. So you talk about big girl love? She was a big girl who was loved and never even knew how much. [/QUOTE] I was the Grrl on the other side of a similar and very recent situation. We had already met once (for a 3 day weekend that ended in less than 12 hours) that didn't go well for other reasons. We also had similar plans, thoughts and dreams moving ahead in the relationship and I was going to be the one moving there. After a couple of weeks not speaking she called and we decided to try again and spent the next 2 months talking for hours every day about anything and everything under the sun including issues about body image (hers and mine, with a less than 25lb difference in respective weights) and dealing with them. We had / have so much in common and after the heart-rending year I had just gone through I was filled with hope, desire and trust in a better future. We decided to start with a visit of 10 days... the second day of the day visit she told me she didn't see any possibility of a relationship as partners/lovers/married as she was not able to be physically attracted to me and we had nothing much in common; she then emotionally distanced herself, barely spoke to me and I had 8 more agonizing and heartbreaking days to get though in her home before my flight home. I was stunned to say the least and in so much pain, absolutely numb. Never buy a cheap ticket that can't be changed... It was not all negative, I always try to find something positive even in a bad situation and it was my first holiday in 8 years. We had fun going out and exploring her city (my possible future home), meeting her friends and having conversations on a superficial level but the trust had been broken. We are speaking yet again simply because we do have that much to talk about and do care for each other very much just not daily and not the way it was. I miss what we had and its hard being just friends. I think your G/f perhaps felt your hesitation and struggle and took what for her may have been the easy way out without giving sufficient thought as to how it would affect you... maybe it was what she needed to do to deal with her pain. I feel the pain, anger and heartbreak in your post and understand it. I wish both of us a positive future and in spite of how I am feeling right now I would try yet a third time even though my heart feels battered and bruised. As for starting a new relationship that will be a very long time coming. |
wow
I'm glad I wasnt around to read this thread in the last few days.
The only thing I'm going to comment on is Junes post. I dont disagree persay, but I do not share your feelings about threads/spaces like this. I feel like you were right on the money when you said that people of size are marginalized, and treated as less than. That is exactly the reason I feel we need threads/spaces like this. I dont see it being that much different than other groups who are marginalized setting up positive space for themselves. Sometimes after a long day of being dismissed, and discrimiated against, it's nice to come to a place where I feel loved, appreciated, seen. That's why I come here to the planet. To be appreciated and seen for WHO I am ..not WHAT I am. xoxoxo |
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for the most part, the new students were always freaked out about taking off their clothing as part of the learning process. after a while, that fear was greatly diminished for most of them...but definitely not all. it inspired me to make time in my first term classes to have a round robin discussion about body image. one of the best things to come of it was this: our opinions about our bodies arent innate...we arent born loving our physical selves (or our intellectual, emotional and spiritual selves for that matter). we're handed our self image by others...friends, family, lovers, culture, media and so on...and expected to assimilate what's "right" or "wrong" from all of that information. some of us get great images...most of us dont. most of us learn that there's something wrong with us somehow and we spend an inordinate amount of time trying to fit the paradigm we've been taught. no one wants to be unhealthy. but as has been said before, fat does not necessarily equal unhealthy; just as slender doesnt automatically indicate good health. i know that my doctor does not like that i smoke, but she also knows that smoking increases dopamine interaction and that makes my drugs work more efficiently. she now also knows that i'm smoking more because i'm struggling not to put unnecessary food in my mouth. i know a lot of people who smoke in order to avoid eating more. i know one man who uses chewing tobacco for the same reason...and he's in his 50s. he knows better. he's always been active. but as he's gotten older tobacco is part of what he does to stay slim. what have we learned from our friends/families/lovers/culture/media...? :deepthoughts: that the risk of cancer is better than extra weight? |
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i DO. i want to be appreciated for WHAT i am. i'm a "fat, delicious, femme genius". (my best gay boyfriend coined the term and i love it!) i want to be appreciated for my WHAT, WHO, WHEN, WHERE and WHY. i want to be appreciated for all of me. if someone likes my WHO but not my WHAT then they dont like ME. i want someone to like me, flaws and all. fat is not one of those flaws. a propensity to be long-winded and selfish is...but fat is not. i want to be loved because i'm flawed. loving someone who's perfect is too much work. (there's no room on the pedestal for both of you and who wants to be in a relationship with someone who doesnt understand struggle?) i'm glad there are threads like this as well. most days anyway. i see things posted this thread that are meant to be supportive...but they really serve to remind me that it's socially acceptable to discriminate against people who dont conform to cutural weight standards. i get so tired of being seen as "less than" because i'm booty-liscious. i get tired of being treated as though i'm disfigured because i have round thighs and large breasts. i get tired of people's looks of surprise when i show up on my bike or ask to be included in a hike or some other physical activity. it irks the hell out of me when someone responds with an incredulous look when they see a flier/advertisement for a class (yoga or belly dance) i'm teaching/have taught. why is it socially acceptable to assume (and treat me as thought) i'm completely sedentary, out of control, unhealthy, and piggish because i weigh 50 pounds more than i care to at the moment? (and no...the "appropriate maximum weight" listed for someone my height on height/weight charts is NOT my goal). why is there a cultural assumption that i'm "lucky" or should be "grateful" if i have a lover? maybe it's the lover who is lucky! why should anyone be judged based on something this arbitrary? i'm not raping dogs or burning babies. i'm fat. i'm not afraid of being fat. i'm not embarrassed or apologetic. why do i want to take out an ad in every major newspaper in the world and tell the asshats to step off when i know it wont matter...to them or me...in the end? dear haters, i dont want to be angry at you. i dont want to give you any of my time or any space in my head. you will never be worth it. i may be fat...but you're stupid and i'd rather be me than you. stupid is ugly. fat is simply more of me...and that's always a good thing. p.s. i dont have a "weight problem". you have a problem with my weight. :hippie: |
I must admit, I love this Thread...As a curvacious woman it is refreshing to see dialouge regarding body issues and how it can and does affect and shape our view on sensuality.. Medusa Honey...U are a stone cold FOX..... and I can Honestly say I LOVE a woman with curves. But more than that I love a woman thats comfortable in her body. Maybe thats becuase I hope to learn how to become more comfortable in mine. Thank you for this thread...and while it might seem like I just like starting shit I assure you I am not. I am truley interested in the perception of others and I look foward to further communications with you all..... Here is my question.... Being a Curvacious woman, is there anyone in the media or literary world that inspires you (me, us) to be not just comfortable but also aware of your sexiness in a positive way? Peace and Love |
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YOU ROCK TO THE 10TH POWER...:clap:....Thank you Peace and Love |
Here is Portland, we have a shop called Fat Fancy!
It is owned by 2 amazing Queer Femmes in our community. For several years, they held sales in basements and at festivals to raise money for the shop. And even got a grant from Intuit! Now they have a full storefront- Beth Ditto has been a true advocate as well, and I believe they even carry some of her clothing line! I don't think they have online shopping yet, but if you are even here in town... we could go together! |
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i enjoy beth ditto quite a bit. if only had been that confident in my "youth"! now i just have to come and visit so we can go shopping! |
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