I think a lot of folks had many reactions to several of the issues that evolved out of the original post. I wrote mine no more or less "very emotionally" than anyone else has posted here. I might add, are women not frequently told by bio men that they are "very emotional" when voicing an opinion strongly? That is another thread, I guess.

Did I react negatively to being told I "snubbed my nose" and was "judgmental" to those with different opinions? Yes. That clearly felt like a personal attack to me. Actually, it was. I ensure that I make no personal attacks or use judgmental attacks on others when I disagree and pride myself on that. Should I have said that the poster appeared to be devils advocate? No, I should not have. I was being reactive and I do apologize for that. I do not feel proud of my reaction in that case.

As I have said in many posts since I joined, that is the beauty of the Planet: that we are all entitled to our reactions, both positive and negative and I believe that several folks in this thread agreed and several did not.

One post can prompt 10 different opinions. I may not agree with 5 of the 10 and may say so, but I defend to the end their right to that opinion and to say so (as long as we do so without personal attacks on those with which we disagree).

We do not all have to agree and we certainly can support opinions both pro and con, as anyone can see by all posts in this thread.

I feel for any femme or butch dealing with a breakup-regardless of who they may be.

All of us know what that feels like.

I will never apologize for advocating kindness towards anyone's sadness, be it loss of a relationship or any other type of loss. It does not matter to me if one is a close friend or someone I hardly know.

I advocated for discretion with the person she only knew casually. No nose rubbing was necessary-in my opinion.

The friend issues was an offshoot that just arose as it usually does around here. No, I personally would not date the ex of a friend. Again, my opinion!

I state my own opinion, just the same way everyone else does on the Planet.

Wow, you completely misinterpreted my post. Not sure why you are so defensive to a simple post pointing out how I noticed how much you care about your friend.

Btw, this is coming as femme to femme, not bio-male to femme.

Something I meant to ask: Was your friend there with the new person she was seeing?

If not, would it have been different (at least in your mind, since you can't answer for her) if she had been there with her new gf?

If she was there with the new gf, do you feel that she would be obligated to not be affectionate with her new gf in front of her ex?

I'm just trying to understand.

Actually, she went by herself. She had not started to date. The break-up was pretty new. She did not know the ex would be there with someone new.

I am off to bed now.

Good night all.

I guess it was the "very emotional" phrase and maybe now, the "so defensive".

I did like the "how much you care for your friend". That was nice and I should have noted that.

Thank you.

I do not believe in a femme code. I certainly don't believe in a butch code. I have straight female friends and just me dyke friends and butch friends and gay male friends and straight male friends.

they all get the same love, affection and appreciation. My bestest, oldest friend is a straight woman. Three closest, most adored friends are a butch, a bisexual girl with no ID, and a dyke who ID's as "dolly mixture" (a licorice candy bag of all sorts)

I have very close femme friends but they don't get anymore special treatment or coded behaviour than the rest of my cherished friends, that would be weird to me.

Would I flirt with an aquaintence's ex partner? probably. I'm sure she's an adult and knows that her partner will start to see other people.

When my wife and I broke, we divided things up socially - who would get what night where, and we'd text each other to let the other know if we were going to be at an event. Why? because we didn't want to see each other flirting or snogging or whatever with other people AND it's NOT anyone's responsibility for our feelings around each other as an ex couple. It was up to us to deal with it. I've always done this with my exes - for X amount of time we do not attend the same events so that we do not restrict each other and we do not have to see things we do not want to see.

I would assume that everyone else took that same due care like the grown ups they are supposed to be and not shove that responsibility onto other people.

Would I date a recent ex of a close friend? no. I have slept with exes of close-ish friends after a period of time apart that I thought was reasonable - one in particular, a year had passed and she was engaged to someone else. I told her what had happened. her reaction was a *bit* on the dramatic side. She ran out of the house crying. She then tried to kick me out of the house we were living together in and the rest of the girls in the house said I had broken a "code" and got pretty fucking nasty to me. I pointed out that perhaps if she felt THAT strongly about Eric, perhaps she shouldn't be marrying someone else??? If she didn't know she felt that way about Eric still, maybe it's a bloody good thing she's just found out??

I left the house and was made into a harlot because I broke "the code". Pfft. Codes can suck my fat chunky asshole. I made a judgement of action based on what I knew about individuals. Codes are for things like bikers clubs or boy scouts or freemasons. Not a gender group that I have nothing in common with save for the same gender presentation. I thought third wave feminism proved that not all women have the same experiences? That can be extended to any gender representation.

Sorry, no code for me. respect as individuals and an expectation for them to take care of themselves.

ETA: I just remembered... a long time aquaintance of mine was married and in an open relationship. She was shagging someone who was interested in me and I was interested in her. She spoke to her, telling her that she would be dating me. She was pissy but accepted it. We started dating. My friendly aquaintance with that femme... well she stopped talking to me. My date then broke with her because she no longer wanted to be screwing more than one person at a time. my femme aquaintance then threw me hostile looks at events. Fair enough, her feelings were hurt. However, she was married to someone and what happened between my date and her was not my making or business - it was for them to sort out. And if she didn't want to talk to me... I understood. However, I knew she'd get over it. She did. about three months later we were all talking and laughing at the same table in the pub and at one point she'd come over, give me a hug and sit on my date's lap and we'd talk.

My ex housemate and I have never spoken again. She made me into a demon and took no responsibility for how she felt or communicated.

People, if they assume responsibilty for their own emotions and relationships, get over things.

oh applause. sheer, unadulterated, appreciative, whole hearted, high fivin', fist bumping, and completely uncensored OH HELL YES! HELL YES THEY DAMN WELL DO applause

(going back to my corner now)

just gotta come back and highlight another part of this freaking AWESOME post! serious. i'm OVER the "code" mentality.

i'm also over the "waiting code".. that's the one that says a person has to wait a mysteriously determined amount of time before dating after a break up.

the "waiting code" says: if you dont wait long enough you're a whore and if you wait too long you've become maudlin.

BULL

if you choose not to wait very long that doesnt mean you're not aching over your break up. it means that you're human and want connection with other humans. conversely, being alone or waiting doesnt mean you're depressed. it might just mean that you're happy on your own!

everyone's code should be self-determined.

Bouncing off HB
 

That's odd to me as well.

If my friend is getting married and she's flipping out over an ex I'd be like WTF:|

If you're marrying X why does what G do bother you?

That kind of ownership after a break up mentality is downright oogy.

This thread has taken on a whole new spin on things...

What i read was the OP's "friend" was dating however crushed that the "ex" was "FLIRTING" mind you yes i agree with snow....that's just creepy and there is no logic to that kind of ownership...

Some things in life may be upsetting, so if advice for your friend is needed my advice would be to tell you friend to get over it that the ex has every right to "flirt" and in reality if the ex chose to date they have that right as well....or i might suggest the friend continue going out on her own dates or even knowing my snarky self i might say what gives you the right to date others and deny that person theirs all at the same time....makes no sense in my book

again this thread went from the original question of 2 people flirting only the one not even knowing the OP's friend let alone could call them close or what have you. So in essence it wouldn't matter who the ex was flirting with......

The title could have reflected the question better as if to say is it ok to flirt with a complete stranger's ex beau....it may not have gotten all this heated yet great attention yet that's in essence what the topic in the original comment is about strangers who happen to see each other occasionally non the less still strangers......

just my opinion....

as i read here more and more this thread somewhat reminds of that game my friends in junior high played you know that one where they whisper something in each other's ear and by the end of the 10th person it isn't even what was stated to begin with, I was never "good" at that game because i could never make shit up ...so i don't remember what it was called but this thread reminds me somewhat of that.

Bouncing off gaea's post
 

See I don't see the Junior high telephone game going on you're speaking of gaea, maybe it's because some of the Femme's posting happen to be real time, online friends so therefore some folks are posting from their POV. I went and re-read the OP her questions opened up this conversation to a wide variety of different opinions, thoughs, and personal experiences.

It happens in ALL threads, the conversation takes on different highways, roads, intersections where no ones experience or words will match.

Or maybe I'm missing something or have forgotten what Junior High was like, thank Hey Zeus I have cause Jr High SUCKED!

right? It did for me as well....

I have this sort of logical brain though that wanted to see the questions addressed and flirting became about dating and sex and what have you....I have enjoyed the thread and all the different views.

Thoughts
 

Well, flirting for "me" doesn't nor should it lead to fucking/dating, it's an art. Unless the intent is to fuck/date I'm going go with the "flirt" is different be it body language, the change in energy etc.

Online flirtations are gonna be harder to interpret because of the lack of physical viewing.

I hope I'm making sense.

wow. i went out of town without my computer for one day and now i can't catch up, LOL. i can't wait to read the rest of this thread (maybe later today?) but for now...

i'm friends with almost all of my exes, and it's more or less something i feel comfortable talking to them about. i wouldn't object to a friend dating an ex of mine offhand. there are exes i still carry a bit of a torch for and it's bittersweet when i know they're in a new relationship, so it might take some adjusting for me especially if they were in a new relationship with my friend. but i wouldn't expect friends NOT to date my exes.

i'd talk to a friend before i dated their ex. it's a bit funny - i had a date on wednesday with an (offline) friend's ex - and the friend was the one to set me up with her ex. but they also have a more or less friendly relationship now (they were together for several years). if i knew jumping into a relationship with a friend's ex might cause problems, though, i'd definitely talk with them about it first. it would depend a lot on how my friend felt and why, for me.

you are making absolute sense to me....that was my point....and who are we in all honesty to trash a femme sister based on our own experiences....

this girl a stranger to all of us as well as the OP isn't even here to defend herself.....and what the OP heard is rumor at best.

YES THIS. for me, talking to a friend (or an ex), regardless of how they identify, when there's a potential situation where they might be dating my ex or i might be dating theirs - that's being a nice human being. i'd do that with anyone. i'm not really sure i understand the femme code of loyalty stuff. but i date femmes, too.

i am not sure how being open to dating a friend's ex is tantamount to throwing away a friendship - it seems like that's the basic assumption of many posts on this thread. i have many friendships where that's absolutely not the case (and many of those friendships are with femmes). obviously if there was someone i cared about - like, say, snow or midnight or someone else here, or a friend i have offline, or even an acquaintance - i would ask them first. if they considered it crossing a boundary or felt really strongly about it i most likely wouldn't date their ex - it's not worth it to me. especially if they were a "i'd call you at 4am in a crisis" friend (like the friend who set me up with her ex, who definitely is a close friend). but for me it is not an automatic assumption.