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It makes me so thankful I am not famous.
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I get what you are saying, here. I can't believe how obsessed I have become over the Sandra/Jesse thing--it's embarrassing, but oh well. I think it's because I was practically in tears listening to her on Barbra Walter's special and her speech at the Golden Globes the week before and how DAMN SURE she was about him. She didn't even care about marriage until she met him (and I can relate to that!). She really truly believed this was the first guy who was strong enough for her (her words) and that she trusted completely. I think she was fooled completely and it does make you wonder about...wow, do you ever REALLY know someone? She was SO SURE about him! (and really cared about and loved his kids too) Ugh. |
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It is not the same thing to me if you are gossiping about someone you actually know or even if you just know them online. I'm not into that kind of drama/gossip. |
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Well. I have two words for you: Balloon Boy. I'm still not over that. :jack: |
How nasty some people can be
Did anyone watch The Today Show when Matt Lauer talked about the latest trend on the internet? I almost fell out of my chair, and Dino would have taken a nasty fall to the floor as well. Long story short, it is when people go online to social network sites like facebook, twitter, and so on and post horrible things about someone's child who had died. They used the example of the Mass girl who committed suicide, and went to her memorial page and showed the horrible messages left for her parents/family/friends to read. Some even included a rope that was in the shape of a neuse. The next example was a young woman who commited suicide by driving her father's porche into a toll booth. Pictures of her mangled body ended up all over the web. When her mother went to her daughter's facebook page, she saw what her child looked like for the first time. She was told by the funeral director that she should just remember her daughter as she was. It was a closed casket funeral. Then Matt Lauer interviewed some executive from an organization setup to try to stop this behavior, because it is not illegal as of yet. She was with wiredsafety.org. She said that these people are "trolls" and come from all over the world. They seek out to intentionally hurt others. That is their one goal. How horrible and sad. But more importantly, they are not who they say they are, and some are using other people's computers. The laws just are not there yet to protect anyone from this. Julieisafemme, you are not alone. I had the same experience as you. :bigcry: :blues: |
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No need to feel sorry for me. Or judged. I'm a grown up and take responsibility for the things I told people and the actions people are gossiping about. What I am trying to point out is that collateral damage of gossip on those indirectly involved. My partner's gender and sexuality is discussed amongst people who do not know him and have never had a conversation with me about it. That's gross.
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I agree what happened or is happening to you was/is wrong. For sure. |
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my mom! hee! I said but Mommmmm...she wanted to BELIEVE!!! (I'm all on the side of being swept away by someone later in life...(wonder why that is?! haha!). |
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I am thinking either they are trying to convince themselves and/or others of something they are not sure about, or they have their heads so high in the clouds, they are a victim in the making. |
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Prior to this marriage, she was always pretty quiet about her personal life. I think she felt secure enough to discuss her thoughts on marriage and how it made her a better person and actor because she truly believed in the veracity of his love for her. If that's having her head in the clouds and being a victim in the making, that's a bit sad. I'm not sure I'm with the first theory of trying to convince herself. But, we'll never know what she knew or was thinking. Personally, watching the footage of her discussing her love for him--it seemed very natural and not contrived to convince herself or anyone. I think that is what would get to me the most--telling everyone how my marriage and guy made my life so much better--how incredible he is--meanwhile he's been betraying me throughout. |
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And, I do believe there are always clues to cheating which we often choose to ignore. People are patterns of behavior. When the pattern changes, its time to look at whats happening. |
It's misogynistic IN THE EXTREME to say that women are given a pass on infidelity. IN THE EXTREME. It shouldn't be tolerated here. It's not civilized conversation. Women have been killed and put in mental institutions for infidelity. In the subculture i come from, it's assumed that men will cheat. It's a remarkable man who doesn't. If a woman cheats, everyone is concerned that her husband or boyfriend might kill her and whoever she slept with.
In the past it's been considered justifiable to kill a woman for infidelity. It still is in some places. It's also been an excuse to take children away from women. There is long history of violence associated with this issue. i cannot believe anyone would assert that women are given a pass on this. i do not think any assertion that they are is an innocent one. |
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It is also beyond ridiculous to believe that women are given a pass. |
What I do not understand is......
Why the hell are we surprised when a celebrity marriage goes down the tubes? I mean come on really folks, they get married what every 6 to 14 months, on the bf.dom people are in love and pretend married what every 2 to 7 months? It's no different, for some unknown fucked up reason, we love to stick our noses in shit, no matter how bad it smells.... |
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How do people react? Let's see....there was screaming and shouting and crying....me trying to soothe the dogs who were going crazy because they don't like fighting....something got slammed into the wall and the 30 pound vacuum cleaner was hauled upstairs....a friend from work was called in to help diffuse the situation and/or provide a witness....threats of calling the other's command and potentially ending what has been a prestigious career thus far....me turning the TV up and holding the dogs close because if I go upstairs I would be all up in other people's Koolaid....one friend standing in stony silence and the other crying so hard she could hardly breathe...the hapless 'witness' awkwardly standing in the corner rubbing his head and taking off and putting on his hat over and over again....and now, less than 24 hours after it began, I don't know whether I and our other housemate need to start looking for another place to live since a realtor was at the house this morning estimating its value, the offending party has been kicked out and other party is still pushing at the bit to go to his command, not realizing the fallout of that decision not only for him, but for her as well. Yeah, it kinda looks like that. :( |
unforgivable
Infidelity is narcissism at its prime
it is gluttony beyond any sense of the word it is an intentional chaotic act of power and a fractal act of cowardice by a pig unable to comprehend the incalculable effects of self absorption. it is unforgivable. I felt for you Softness. I, too, lost my home when I walked away. A barn and kennels that I built, fields that I fenced, and a house that overlooked a lake and valley. I sold it for a song and walked away suffering a huge financial and emotional loss after discovering the affair. No counseling, no negotiation, no forgiveness, nothing. Done. I came to understand that losing my home hurt more than the affair. The person I shared it with was someone I ultimately didn't know, nor did I care to. Retrospect is so clear. It happened to me twice. I also swore that nobody. NOBODY would hold sway over my emotions. If I wouldn't dive headfirst into emotions then it wasn't time to do anything but enjoy friends and spend time with family. And when I was ready I opened up , completely, again. I've never looked back, other than to clearly define the act of infidelity as nothing but a self-absorbed act of cowardice and destruction. By the way, can you tell I have ZERO tolerance. |
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Like the rest of us who also spot that sort of thing, you've just got a good nose for bullshittery. :winky: Fairytales are for books and the gullible because people are human. Relationships take work and the only "perfect" part of how they work is how successful the parties are at working things out. ~Theo~ :bouquet: |
[QUOTE=Boots13;76696]
I came to understand that losing my home hurt more than the affair. The person I shared it with was someone I ultimately didn't know, nor did I care to. Retrospect is so clear. QUOTE] Oh a big AMEN to this! I can do without a cheating partner. I can date and find another one...but I cant recapture my childhood farm. I lost it and my dream of raising horses. I had it all there, in the cup of my hands, but because I wasn't "available" to him because I was in so much pain over a broken dislocated shoulder, he felt it justified him going outside of our marraige. Never again will I let go of a house for a partner. Never again will I let someone give me then take away a home. I own my own home now, free and clear. I am also living contently single.... |
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maybe you can photo shop the two of you in the alps or something? hoping the sig line pic gets quoted, so it is clear what I'm referring to.... sigh....no it didnt....holy hell with spam on top "real men" don't like quiche anyways :watereyes: plus I always spell virile ...viral damn it |
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How has infidelity looked in my life? That sick feeling in my stomach when I KNOW something has been going on losing my place to live losing who I thought was my best friend...for a time it all being blamed on me thinking I was losing my mind being told I was crazy and jealous having my partner's girfriend's husband knocking on my window at 3am looking for his wife while I was keeping her kids having my partner move a new G/F into our house after a week finding out it was all worse than my most extreme fears.... But the good is, I am stronger and happier and have a great life. I refuse to think of my 5 year relationship now as a red flag. It is good and we work hard at making it so. Yes I have forgiven those who cheated on me, compared to other stuff that is happened in my life, being cheated on is far from the worst thing that can happen. Far. |
Kobi-
This is a grand community of diverse thinking! Thanks for the thread. Quote:
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There is a big double-standard with this going on. And now, the rumors of James (the bad boy) going into rehab/treatment.... hummmm... for sex addiction? This is the new Hollywood, rich athelete answer to cheating. I believe this addiction exists, however, the rich stars will use it as an excuse for behavior and if addicted, won't really do the work necessary to recover. I watched LKL last night and some of the same old BS about men just not being able to help themselves with sex (and the other women are always the temptress) bullshit was being spewed. Actually, the whole interview was one of the most sexist pile of horse-dung I have seen in a long time. Sexist about both men and women. Equal opportunity stereotypes abound! Women cheat, too. And I don't believe we have accurate stats on the actual numbers because of this double standard. I am also tired of men being viewed as slaves to their penis! Why the hell don't we talk about how we make choices for ourselves in relationships and take responsibility for when we make mistakes? Also, in the context of these celebrity situations, why people think the dynamics are within any kind of norm (term used loosly) anything like what the rtest of us experience is just nuts to me. But, it sells!!! Anyone want to talk about the meaning of character? |
Poor poor men. In a Patriarchal society where it is the norm for men to cheat (just not get caught) it is hard to feel pity.
I don't CARE who is cheating as long as it's not on me. I simply REFUSE to feel any pity for the (despite the diversions of double standards and blahblahblah) men. You make your bed you lie in it. Pun intentional. |
[QUOTE=SuperFemme;77007]Poor poor men. In a Patriarchal society where it is the norm for men to cheat (just not get caught) it is hard to feel pity.
I don't CARE who is cheating as long as it's not on me. I simply REFUSE to feel any pity for the (despite the diversions of double standards and blahblahblah) men. You make your bed you lie in it. Pun intentional.[/QU I don't feel any pity for these guys at all. And it is the patriarchal traditions that are at the bottom of the men will be men stuff. But, why aren’t we talking about the entire state of being able to make a commitment and stick to it (if a monogamous marriage/relationship is what we commit to) instead of differentiating along gender? One is either has an honorable character, or not. Doesn't matter if male or female, or combination, thereof. |
the rehab for sex addiction actually cracks me up
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If by *We* you mean the media? Well....let's take a look at who controls the media. I have a conspiracy theory: John Edwards PAID Jesse James and Tiger Woods to screw around so the focus could be taken off of him fathering a baby during the election and letting his top aide claim paternity. There is even a John Edwards sex tape. Who are we hearing about though? Never fuck on the grassy knoll people. :harley: |
Disclaimer: This is a derail ...
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Good thing it's Spring and the hills around us are GREEN! :gimmehug: |
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If tomorrow it came out that you'd have ten or twelve flings without me watching? I would hope people would feel bad for poor, sweet, little ole' me. On the flip side, it the opposite were to happen? You could always revert to my cheating slogan. "I'll cut a bitch". |
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lol The teenager is using your motto already ... :lol2: |
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I thought we were talking about making choices for ourselves. And one of *my* meanings of 'character' is not basing someone's 'worth' solely on his/her looks...especially when it comes to celebrities. It chaps my ass whenever I hear comments like, "[Sandy] didn't deserve this because she's beautiful, and brilliant, and has a million things going for her. I would have treated her sooooooooooo much better." It chaps my ass on so many levels. The main reason being the person who usually says this about celebrities has never DEALT with the celebrity. The entirety of the comment is based on public facade and (9 times outta 10) LOOKS. So, what does that mean? Does an not-so-attractive woman 'deserve' to be cheated on? And how in the hell does anyone know what it's like to live with Sandy (for example, altho the same shit was said about Eliza Hurley). I mean, seriously, maybe she's just a hideous person to deal with. Maybe a million things. But no, she's deemed attractive, so she MUST be just a complete joy to live with. And who said anything about feeling 'pity' for men? I said there's a double standard. NO ONE says the same thing about the men who are cheated on (i.e. "OMG, he's sooooo hot, I would treat him right, he's brilliant and has a million things going for him...blah blah blah). No, the same things aren't said. And again, it goes back to sexism, because women are just delicate little flowers who need to be taken care of and "treated right" and all that other systematic sexist bullshit. Dylan |
Men don't usually lose their children or their lives for cheating either.
Cheating sucks EVEN if the other half is heinous to live with. That's not an excuse for infidelity, it's a reason to break up. |
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Maybe as human beings we are not hard wired for monogomy. Marriage, coupledom, nuclear family is cultural. It is something we invented. The root of marriage is economic. My history is spotty here but it was at one point (in the west) to tie families together politically and economically. Also, I've read it was to ensure men that the baby was his and not someone elses so that he could pass his money, land etc down to a genetic relative (again, all patriarchy) plus throw in marriage as a way to control women's sexuality (ironically) and women as property passed from father to husband and so on and so on. Yet really, the whole institution is entirely unnatural and who says monogomy is natural and why are we tying character to something I don't believe we are genetically wired to be. Having said this, I am monogomous and believe that if you and your partner have the expectation of monogomy and fidelity and this is what a couple agree to then you should live up to that agreement. I don't feel pity for James, Woods or anyone that cheats and gets caught and then has to deal with the fall out, whether male or female. But in the grand scheme of things I think that we as humans are not wired for monogamy. And I think if we stop putting so much emphasis on marriage and instead emphasize the importance of being truthful ( admit that we can't be monogomous and let a potential partner know the relationship has to be an open relationship) or hell, in Woods' case, just stay single and have sex with lots of women (and not tell them you love them) then people won't get hurt). Part of the problem is that people can't just say .... I'd love to have sex with you, but before we do this please know it is a one time, one weekend thing, I don't want a relationship, I don't love you etc etc. Well I'm rambling now......so I'll stop here. Rufus |
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Thousands of women are beaten up and killed every year because of accusations of infidelity. Some men are too. That's the double standard. i cannot believe you repeated that. i cannot believe you would say it in a public forum where most of the participants are women. How hostile do you intend to be? Who gives a crap what people say when others have relationship issues? Most people with an average IQ wouldn't say ANY of those things you quoted, yet you use their blathering as an excuse to say men have a harder time in our culture than women do where this issue is concerned? i don't think so. Take a body count. i am sure there are some issues in our culture where women benefit from a double standard. This is NOT ONE of them. To say so -- and to keep saying it -- is appalling. It's hostile. It's misogynistic. WTF? |
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I thought we were discussing relationships... I thought what we were doing is discussing that maybe just maybe we put to much time and energy into the lives of others and not enough into our own? I dunno I think it oogy, that so many people are like ohhhh poor lil Sandra.. I mean what do we know about her really, should it matter who it is? Would it be just as bad if it had happened to say, the woman with the 4 kids with the mole on her chin down the street? Wait wait we do not hear about the trials and tribulations of the people in building 899 apt 455. WHY?? Cause there is no one following them, idolizing them, or thinking ooooO--- Aaaaah that Sandy Chicharoon did not deserve her husband cheating on her, leaving her with no food, 5 kids and the pets, she didn't deserve that.. No, we are to busy worrying about El Tigre Woods, Leanna Rhimes, Jesse James, what's that guys name from the kid show...... Thinkin... Oh yes John Gosselin...... Really??? WHO CARES!!! There is a Pope out there hiding out priests who have molested over 200 deaf boys... Pedophilia hiding is far worse than all this other shit.. At least that is what I think... |
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But you win with the Pope and his band of merry priests. |
Reading People magazine online right now and this is an example of a woman cheating from years ago and the nation's reaction:
INGRID BERGMAN While filming 1950's Stromboli, the Casablanca beauty fell for married director Roberto Rossellini, whom she left her own husband and daughter for. The affair scandalized the nation, leading Bergman to being blacklisted in Hollywood – and even denounced on the Senate floor as a "powerful influence for evil." |
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Oh, Larry King Live. (LKL).. Tuesday night. Actually, it was a lousy group of interviewees. And the experts on sexual addictions were just not articulate at all. Not a very good representation of the fact that it can be an addictive and destructive situation for some people. There was also a whole lotta stereotyping of both men and women going on! Which for me, gets in the way of looking at this in terms of addiction. This, and the latest celebrity sex rehab scenarios without people in the field that know what they are talking about. JeepSakes, I agreed with you about the double standard... and the looks stuff as well. And, we all have different ideas of beauty, anyway. But, only people that are considered, beautiful, deserve to be treated well?? WTF is that? I am right with you concerning personal choices.... I hate it when someone says they are lucky (re: about their relationship & partner). It isn't about luck at all, it is about taking care of yourself and choosing well. And having what it takes to be effective as a partner and knowing the art of cooperation. I know I make very conscious decisions about relationships and who I even date. Sure, I recognize that someone is a great choice, but I don't role dice in choosing to find out if someone is right for me (and themselves). And just because I might be smitten, doesn't mean I will turn away from what I know has to there in order to have a healthy relationship with someone. I make choices. I had hoped with the Tiger Woods fiasco, that some good information would get out about sexual addictions, but, don't think it is. People don't want to deal with this. And they especially don't want to in terms of male stereotypes. They are much more able to think in terms of sex addiction with women, really... and stereotypes around sex abuse and histrionic personality variables (more stereotypes, usually). Anything that gets in the way of forming positive relationships can have an addictive nature to it. Just thinking that shouldn’t everyone cherish, respect, and hold their partner in high regard based upon mutuality of these tenets. Oh, and hell yes, the Pope and the Band of Merry Men are a hell of a lot more important than this! Why can't Congress intervene with legislation in which all churches cannot be exempt from prosecution in these cases? The Catholic church is not the only perp here, either. The way in which religious organizations are protected/legally insulated from criminal (and civil) litigation in the US is an outrage. |
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