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-   -   The Femme Continuum: The "Highs" and "Lows" of Visibility (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1390)

The_Lady_Snow 05-18-2010 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christie0918 (Post 109289)
To expand on what I think you are saying here....

Its like we are held to a different/higher standard as if we should "know better"


No that is not what is being said at all from what I gather from *any* of the femme's who have voiced their opinions on this and experiences.

Thank you

SuperFemme 05-18-2010 07:35 PM

I can NOT be the only one on the interwebz who has witnessed a Femme and a male Id'd Butch fall in love. Glitter and unicorns ensue. THEN they break up.
Inevitably, the Femme will come to a thread and switch to using female pronouns and birth names in an attempt to emasculate said Butch.

THAT makes me crazy and is a thousand time worse than being lazy or making a simple mistake.

I'm not the only one? Am I?

blush 05-18-2010 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow (Post 109287)
```This is coming from my POV and only mine and it does not mean I think ALL femme's do this.~~~

I see it all the time femme's defaulting to the he pronoun automatically, and when the butch or person corrects them, they have been know to be dismissive, and insulting and even go as far as ASK why they aren't so. That's what *I* I am talking about when I am speaking of that particular matter.

Thanks for listening:)

I ask this honestly, not snotty, cause you could prolly whip me around quite a bit...:cheesy:

Is it only femmes? Or do "we" (the collective we) just notice it more and remember it more?

I've seen it from both sides of the fence.

The_Lady_Snow 05-18-2010 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blush (Post 109326)
I ask this honestly, not snotty, cause you could prolly whip me around quite a bit...:cheesy:

Is it only femmes? Or do "we" (the collective we) just notice it more and remember it more?

I've seen it from both sides of the fence.

Woof right??

*I* was coming from my POV and what I have seen more of.

Make sense?

blush 05-18-2010 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFemme (Post 109296)
I can NOT be the only one on the interwebz who has witnessed a Femme and a male Id'd Butch fall in love. Glitter and unicorns ensue. THEN they break up.
Inevitably, the Femme will come to a thread and switch to using female pronouns and birth names in an attempt to emasculate said Butch.

THAT makes me crazy and is a thousand time worse than being lazy or making a simple mistake.

I'm not the only one? Am I?

I've seen that.

I've also seen butches use female pronouns/emasculating phrases when referring to their ex's male-identified partner.

christie 05-18-2010 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow (Post 109293)
No that is not what is being said at all from what I gather from *any* of the femme's who have voiced their opinions on this and experiences.

Thank you

This felt incredibly dismissive and silencing.

I merely posted what *my* opinion was on the post I quoted.

If your experience/opinion is different, I am sure it could have been stated without the implied tone.

SuperFemme 05-18-2010 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blush (Post 109339)
I've seen that.

I've also seen butches use female pronouns/emasculating phrases when referring to their ex's male-identified partner.

Right? I've seen that too.

blush 05-18-2010 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christie0918 (Post 109289)
To expand on what I think you are saying here....

Its like we are held to a different/higher standard as if we should "know better"

It can seem that way. Butches and transmen do not get the same amount of backlash that femmes do for misconstruing (intentionally or not) pronouns.

SuperFemme 05-18-2010 08:10 PM

So. Moving away from the he/hy she/shy proper pronoun debate...

Do any Femmes here use a pronoun other than she/shy? I'm combing my dendrites to think if I have run into this and cannot come up with anyone.

Remember though, I have a memory like the girl in 50 First Dates. So just cuz I can't think of any doesn't mean they aren't out there.

Nat 05-18-2010 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFemme (Post 109355)
So. Moving away from the he/hy she/shy proper pronoun debate...

Do any Femmes here use a pronoun other than she/shy? I'm combing my dendrites to think if I have run into this and cannot come up with anyone.

Remember though, I have a memory like the girl in 50 First Dates. So just cuz I can't think of any doesn't mean they aren't out there.

I wouldn't mind "zie" if it ever took off enough for me to get used to it. I wouldn't mind "he" if it wasn't said with malicious intent.

The_Lady_Snow 05-18-2010 09:10 PM

I know someone that uses

hir

Dunno if that is the same as what you are asking though:|

SuperFemme 05-18-2010 09:13 PM

I wonder what are the ways that Femme's feel umm...femmasculated?
Like how does it look when someone takes a swipe at your femininity?
Because I don't think it looks the same as emasculating.

The_Lady_Snow 05-18-2010 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFemme (Post 109442)
I wonder what are the ways that Femme's feel umm...femmasculated?
Like how does it look when someone takes a swipe at your femininity?
Because I don't think it looks the same as emasculating.

I am sure the hell not gonna go first on this one:bicycle:

SuperFemme 05-18-2010 09:28 PM

I will go first.
How about being told that you are "butch".
I have heard this in a jovial/joking manner in reference to my..uh...type A personality. As if being forceful, determined, or smart is somehow a butch trait.

I don't take it as a compliment. Same with somebody throwing around the word: Toppy or Topping when I am forceful, determined or smart.

I hope that this makes sense and doesn't feel like I am saying that *butch* is an insult in general. I'm not.

betenoire 05-18-2010 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFemme (Post 109442)
I wonder what are the ways that Femme's feel umm...femmasculated?
Like how does it look when someone takes a swipe at your femininity?
Because I don't think it looks the same as emasculating.

Maybe it doesn't look the same as emasculating, but it's just as hurtful.

I will gleefully scratch at the eyes of anybody who questions the femininity or femmeness of myself or my pretty lady friends. Particularly since that questioning is always (fucking always!) in response to us showing our strength, our brains, out independence.

Fuck That.

SuperFemme 05-18-2010 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betenoire (Post 109475)
Maybe it doesn't look the same as emasculating, but it's just as hurtful.

I will gleefully scratch at the eyes of anybody who questions the femininity or femmeness of myself or my pretty lady friends. Particularly since that questioning is always (fucking always!) in response to us showing our strength, our brains, out independence.

Fuck That.

Right? You make me love you. I'll send you cash for that pizza m'kay?

SassyLeo 05-18-2010 09:50 PM

I use She/Her

Because of my strong willed/assertive/bossy way, I have been teased at various points.... mostly by a friend or in the community as a joke kind of thing among Femmes. No worries there.

I know a few lesbian identified friend couples who are not "into" the Butch Femme community... once in a while one will say something about the other sort of off the cuff, like - "oh my girlfriend totally butched it up last weekend and fixed water heater" or "my partner totally dragged it up for an interview...she wore a woman's pantsuit"

If this is out how they talk about themselves in the privacy of their own relationship, that's fine. If they do it because they don't necessarily know any better, ok I'll give them that.

But if someone in the community (not a friend) called my bossiness butch-y or if I told a story about doing something that was "considered" masculine and they labeled it butch-y, I would be irked.

The_Lady_Snow 05-18-2010 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betenoire (Post 109475)
Maybe it doesn't look the same as emasculating, but it's just as hurtful.

I will gleefully scratch at the eyes of anybody who questions the femininity or femmeness of myself or my pretty lady friends. Particularly since that questioning is always (fucking always!) in response to us showing our strength, our brains, out independence.

Fuck That.

She said it best

FUCK THAT...

Another thing I have heard..

All you need is a nice butch so you can settle down...

Um no I don't and I sure the fuck ain't gonna settle....

betenoire 05-18-2010 09:55 PM

Yeah, settling is something that debris does.

SuperFemme 05-18-2010 09:59 PM

How about the look of amazement when you put together an Ikea cabinet or use a power tool on something? Like it's a big huge deal...OR a look of horror if you announce you do not like shopping. Or shoes.


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