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OrganicButch, I am going to ask you to refrain from using terms that are offensive, derisive and inflammatory when posting on this site. There are other ways of getting your point across. Thank you. |
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Tell that to Blaze who was left holding a ticket on the docks. Don't know how Blaze ID'd at the time, but it would appear that appearance was the case.
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hi Bulldog!!!
hi folks!!! appearance aside i think there is a difference in how a group of female id'd butches are gonna be perceived/received by olivia than a group of male id'd butches. |
Wow, I go to work and come back to see all of this...
Since Corkey said to ask me, I shall explain what happened. There was 22 of us that planned this for about a year. If you want the break down it was 9 Femmes, 10 Butches, 2 MTF and one FTM. Mind you, we all pretty much grew up together. At that time, I was a Stone butch, and looked more like a surfer boy. Yes lesbian as I was venturing into my transitioning. I have no problem with whom or whom ever you may be. I just love my community and I am very protective of our community. Especially my FTM and MTF family. I relate most with because the understand what each other is going through while transitioning. I don't condemn any walk of life. That's the problem, we all start pointing finger and judging way before we actually acknowlede that we all bleed the same! If some where making the assumtion that I was being disrespectful to the lesbian community than you took the football and ran your own game. I am a lesbian in transitioning of my own choice, I will always love my lesbian community because it is my roots. I just happen to love and respect my femme ladies, because I am Butch/trans. Now that this is clear. My whole point was that we were disrespected. I don't appreciate that at all. Perhaps I shouldn't have put my story on this thread, BUT. I do have the right to state why I choose not to support or spend my hard own money on Olivia's cruise. If this all started the whole change, then I apologize to anyone I did offend. But in my eyes, I did not insult anyone. I just pointed out why I would never and I said NEVER support that company, ever. I don't see anything in my post discriminating any gender or claimed group. |
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I bet the price of that cruise your not going to get on :) Because you are masculine looking ..They have already said you are not welcome ...I could be wrong and I have been all day ..lol But I think someone posted a letter from them ... |
wow, I have been on one with Schon and a bunch of b/f people. Really? No one bothered us. No one called us names. No one wanted to check our Schon's hoo hoo for authentication. Schon is a pretty masculine butch. :byebye:
I wore a dress, Schon wore a suit for dinners and special events. There were lots of other couples like us and lots that were not. We even won the Newlywed/Oldywed contest in front of 600 participants. They were more freaked out about us being Poly. Funny how people pull there g/f's closer like Imma gonna throw em down and run away with them. :seeingstars: Now men may find it different but there were lots of b/f people on our little trip almost 11 years ago. :sunglass: *shrug* |
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It's always a pleasure to see you :) If I may ask ..Was this cruise with the same cruise line or was it another cruise line ......And I am wondering if they changed policy's since then ... |
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*smiles Thank you! Same cruise line Olivia...same people. We actually flew in with Judy Dlugacz. I met Judy years ago when Olivia was a recording company. I have no idea. Did they say you couldn't come? I must be missing something. LOL |
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I am glad you enjoyed you time on the cruise :) But I think since then they have changed their policy it seems ....They seem to have issues with the more masculine looking Lesbians or butch /stone etc .....As for Me it's a given , I am not surprised by this at all ...:) |
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Wow. Really? Did you mean to come across as accusatory and nasty or is it just me? I have never seen this. Sad. I read the whole thread. I had no idea. Lots of things change over the years. I bet all the butches I watched play basketball on the cruise would be horrified. |
My thoughts on this subject:
I think that Olivia cruises has an absolute right to cater their cruises to whoever they want their target audience to be. Hell, we do that here :) I also have heard some very wonderful stories from people who have gone on Olivia cruises and a few stories where people didn't have such a good time for various reasons. I have been privy to one story where a woman who was very masculine was given a hard time by a crew member, a bartender, and one of the people checking them in. I have personally never been on an Olivia cruise but I have been on Princess cruises. I chose Princess cruises over an Olivia cruise because at the time, it was an issue of cost. (not knowing about the recent communications about their policies). Olivia cruises were, at that time, about 40% more expensive than the other line. I don't think that people who go on Olivia cruises are bad people at all. I don't think Olivia cruises is a bad cruise line. I do think that their policies for Queer folks can feel exclusionary for Transwomen and masculine folks. Because of the people who make up the membership of this website, our site will never host a Reunion party or, for that matter, a party of any kind with Olivia cruises or Olivia resorts. We owe it to our membership to consider their safety and comfort when we choose locations. We won't always be in spaces that are specifically Queer, but we'll do our best to pick an awesome place that is welcoming, accessible, and also financially accessible. |
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sad sad sad
I really am saddened by this. It is like the closing of windows and doors...the blocking off of community. I won't go on Olivia for many reasons again but I did have fun on the one I went on and no one was treated badly that I saw or heard of... *shrug* |
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My point with bulldog and MysticOcean was because of YOUR looks your not getting on that ship ..Doesn't matter how you ID ...And why take a chance with your money , knowing a head of time they will not let you on . :) |
I think that the problem is not that an MTF, very masculine appearing butch, or anyone trans identified WILL be discriminated against; it's that if that should happen, Olivia does not take a stand that they have our backs. I was struck that Olivia's response was very sly. Perhaps for legal reasons the customer care director cannot simply say that Olivia doesn't want anyone on the trans spectrum, including lesbian identified MTFs:
"Olivia strives to provide an all Lesbian environment but we have had MTF transgendered guests join us on our vacations. Although we do not discriminate, you will find that your presence is upsetting to some of our guests. Some will confront you directly asking "why are you on my Lesbian vacation?" The "but" is particularly interesting, as in my world MTFs who ID as lesbian ARE lesbians! Before I inquired I checked their whole website and noticed that "T" was nowhere in site. Just as at the Mich Fest there are supporters and allies of trans women, so is true at Olivia. But whereas at Mich Fest it's their land and they can dictate (Lisa and Boo), some of the issues might be different legally for a cruise to begin saying who is a certain gender and who is not. That's why I think that the extreme prejudice in the email is so underhanded and "polite." It's very careful. But not careful enough- I'm glad she put it in writing! |
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Exactly. Pushing 60, I am saddened by the who they are now, how they don't open to the wonders of the world they helped create, to rejoice in people being free and being themselves. This is what I remember, not this cruel lack of compassion and social justice. |
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