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*chuckles* I'm glad we are not having the age discussion. Bright and Beautiful is my shining star! :awww: Sincerely, Her old as dirt Butch |
I am no expert on how the younger generation are iding, but I see a lot of truth in what ToppDyke says. Genderqueer seems to dominate a lot of online stuff that I see, and certainly it's a term that a lot of people resonate with- which is totally cool. But there are whole other worlds out there, whole other communities out there-both online and real time- Stud and Butch identities- as an example- that are quite a bit removed from what dominates the airwaves on the major Butch Femme sites.
Just this morning I was doing some searches on Studs, because the voices of some of the younger Studs that I read and listen to in videos really do resonate with me even though I am a 47 year old white butch. There are some really great voices out there- very savvy, very aware, who incorporate masculinity within a woman-centric, community based framework- at least that is my take on it. I am loving what I am finding. Not seeing much of it at butch femme sites. |
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This was a great analogy for me (and maybe others resonate) Brilliant, PapaC. :bowdown: ;) Thank you! |
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That's really the point of my posting at all; I don't care if I'm dismissed, if you think I'm irrelevant and my post is, as well. Really, you're entitled to your opinions (even if they're wrong) just like I am. My big issue is that there are so few other young people here. Why do we think that is? Is it, perhaps, because they were treated the same way I have? I've been on butch-femme websites since I was sixteen, so I've kind of grown up with a tough skin. What about people who haven't? What about people who don't know that when people are percieved as being mean, they aren't? Nothing ever dies. Let's go back to the dead harpsichord--that became the piano. Latin became French and Spanish and Italian. Their evolution is what keeps them alive--why do we still know what Latin is while most people have never heard of Yana or Jassic? Latin became something new. Quote:
I'll be a poodle with you only if you'll be bunnicula with me every wednesday. Quote:
Do you think that your own evolution of New Femme from Old Femme is a demarcation of a shift in Butch/Femme? I can't speak as to whether or not it's a change in the terminology or the culture, but my opinion is that the gay culture is shifting away from strict guidelines of what gender is, away from the binary of masculine and feminine, and that's affecting butch/femme. Quote:
You're all old and mean but some of you can cook really well so we'll keep you around til we get your recipes but after that we're actually going to get rid of you. |
I think what it all boils down to for me is this:
I will call you(generic) what you(generic) want to be called. I would request the same courtesy in return. Language discussions that revolve around age are, you will pardon the pun, as old as the hills. "Kids these days" will all too soon be "the older crowd" and the "older crowd" will be ...well, not present. So I guess I don't much care what anyone thinks of the term butch or the term femme other than as far as respecting my choice to use it. And I promise not to call you(generic) femme if you will give me another choice to use. |
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I have never put much energy into thinking about other people's choices unless they directly affect me. I think growing up in a multicultural home taught me tolerance for diversity as I exited the womb.
Femme fits perfectly for me because the term is a HUGE umbrella. There are so many layers to me, I can't simply identify as Transensual Femme, Stone Femme, etc....Being Femme or Butch is complex. There's no one way to do it. If this ideaology doesn't work for the next person that's cool, because there's only one Duchess (thank God) and there's only one you. The important thing is to follow your instinct and not stay within the lines for definition's sake. :) Duchess |
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And actually, the more I thought about it I shouldnt even have said "parsed" because that implies that I changed the meaning somehow. I think I should have said "used the word as I interpreted it". And just for the record: From Dictionary.com antiquated - 4 dictionary results an⋅ti⋅quat⋅ed /ˈæntɪˌkweɪtɪd/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [an-ti-kwey-tid] Show IPA Use antiquated in a Sentence See web results for antiquated See images of antiquated –adjective 1. continued from, resembling, or adhering to the past; old-fashioned: antiquated attitudes. 2. no longer used; obsolete or obsolescent: The spinning wheel is an antiquated machine. 3. aged; old: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is why I couldnt really wrap my head around the idea of intentionally misrepresenting something as "antiquated" when it essentially means the same thing as "old" in the context in which I presented it. Language, a tricky tricky thing. |
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(yes, I said hub-bub). |
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I think I finally understand what it means to get old. The generation gap concept has been epiphanized. |
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What I have heard from the 21 crowd here in DFW is the "younger crowd" is more gender fluid and doesn't want to be boxed into a label. Maybe this isn't some new phenomena. It seems to be history repeating itself as others have said. If I remember back to when I was that age, it seems others that age around me felt the same way. Too busy doing other things rather than being too serious about dissecting ones self/soul/reflecting on the deeper meaning of it all. I've always heard and believe it's true for most that the 20s are about figuring out who you are. And in our 30s we finally accept ourselves. I'm sure that might explain why BF sites don't have a larger younger audience. Many in the younger generation haven't figured out yet if they are more butch, more femme, both or none of the above, and haven't figured out yet what specific type of person they are more attracted to. Not to mention, no telling how many times their minds, feelings, wants, needs and desires change. They are just being, experiencing and trying to see what fits and feels best. I have heard for the first time in all of my Gay Life a 21 year old refer to herself as a Femmestick!!! LoL! What has been very interesting to me is being off the BF sites for a few years and coming back and seeing even the over 30 and up generation now coming out of the Butch/Femme boxes/labels and/or expanding them. I have to say I love a feminine Femme...I hope she never vanishes and there are always some of her around! |
Thanks for saying that BVD-O, it seems like most of the new terms are not for the more feminine of us. I wonder if its just Femmes who are antiquated.
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The_Lady_Snow - you totally freaking rock - you are femme in all your glory!!!
Apoc - Femme is definitely not antiquated in my book. Yes, there does seem to be some defensiveness in this discussion, based around perceived fear that we will be erased as a culture. It's understandable. Yes, my hackles raise when I think about butch/femme becoming obsolete. In my case though, it has more to do with losing our history than with my identity in particular. You see, I'm gonna be butch until the day I die (and if there's more after that I'll be butch then too). Regardless of how terms may shift, I will always be a butch - no one can take that away from me. What raises my hackles is a fear that we will lose/forget our history. Butch/femme is what started the lesbian community (lesbians existed long before, but butch/femme created the first organized community). This was in the 1940s. These individuals suffered, were humiliated, and died because they were not ashamed of who they were, and made our lot, as their descendants if you will, so much easier. It's the connection to our past that I am afraid of losing. |
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I think the wonder of the internet is that we, all of us together, are writing a history of the human race that will last as long as technology lasts... look at the books which are being put online, the movies, the music, the plays, the art--we as a race are archiving our own history as fast as we are able, to save it all. This is unprecedented, you know. We've never had the capability before, never had a way for an average person to make a mark on history like this, never had a way for entire countries to preserve their culture like this. And, for what might well be the very first time ever and certainly for the first time in recorded history, OUR culture, our gay, Queer culture, is a huge part of the archive. This is a wonder to me. What an amazing time to be alive, when my words--the words of one small life--can be part of the actual archive of history! This is our story. We're writing it together, all of us, from everywhere around the world. |
I am a Femme. I was born a Femme and was one before I even heard the word. I embrace it and it is how I identify. I looove the term. And I also love the term "Butch", and the Butch/Femme dynamic. I find that it encompasses all that I love about myself, my own identity, and the ID of my partner. However, I do realize that these are my own personal preferences. I would never presume to label anyone with an ID not of their own choosing. I think what it all comes down to is respect. I do not disdain any new manner of identifying, on the contrary, I celebrate and embrace whatever identity one chooses to use to define themself. I just ask that I be allowed the same freedom of expression. No one has to agree with my choice of identity..they just need to respect it.
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Sure Apocalipstic.... I LOVE antiquated Femmes :cheer: !!! ;) |
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I have thought more on Selenay's post and with the help of others that have done a better job of listening and responding to it, I think I grasp what she is saying. Out of curiosity, I would like to see where the generational evolution of human/sexuality/identities flows to. I think what is now called butch-femme will still navigate it's own river. Just as strong as it was and is. Kosmo |
I will prolly get some flack for this but why is there such an uproar over terms, labels, etc?
Maybe I just see it as it to me, words that describe who we are. |
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To all: I am curious that butch and the variants thereof are so many but femme is only one (although girl/babygirl and trans-sensual femme are other terms I've seen to describe but I don't know that they have the same idea or are from the same concept as femme (??) ) So what would be a "modern" term for femme? |
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