Thoughts
 

Not all Femmes are my sisters I'll be their ally, supporter etc. I can't date my sister or brother:|

right i agree....

so where does the stranger owe some sort of sister code to the friend of the OP?
there's just way to many variables here
and it sorta feels like a witch hunt if i may.....

Oy!
 

I think when our friends are hurt we support them and listen and shake em when they're being irrational.

I don't think Anya is rousing up the masses and lighting torches, or at least that wasn't the intent * I * read...

I just thought she was asking for input:|

aishah, you absolutely need to come hang out at the pool and drink umbrella drinks with me....because I love this.

For me, this is also where kindness, respect and taking some care for the feelings of people that we once at least claimed to care about comes in. It can be really, really hard to see an ex move on...and if there's overt flirting in front of us or "she's so much better than you" stuff going on....it just hurts.

So....yes, I would date the ex of an acquaintance, but if we ended up at the same event together, for instance, I wouldn't be climbing into my honey's lap and trying to elicit some "get a room" commentary either. Well, I don't do that in public at all anyway, but you get the picture. I think it's perfectly possible to move on without trampling on the feelings of the people we used to be with.

Sometimes it just calls for a little discretion, and I think adults should be capable of that.

I'm still in the "no way in hell when it comes to dating exes of close friends" camp though (with regard to my own choices only)....that would just feel super icky to me personally.

thanks for getting it, jo :) <3

disclaimer: the following is just my opinion on jealousy from my own personal experience, and how i choose to live my life. not judging anyone else's feelings on this matter.

i think for me there's also an element of - my being polyamorous, to me at least means that i have certain feelings/opinions about jealousy, etc.

one of those feelings/opinions is that - if an ex and a friend dating is bittersweet for me or makes me feel jealous or upset - that feeling jealous or upset is MY problem. not theirs. same goes with a current partner dating someone else. i don't see it as my personal right to say that they should not be happy together because it makes me upset.

obviously there's an element of discretion involved - if we just went through a bad breakup a month ago, don't be an asshat and date my ex and rub it in my face. and ask me first or break it to me gently.

but part of why i don't consider it a right to deny my friends and exes the possibility of dating is because - if it makes me feel shitty, that's because -i- have issues i need to work on. (i mean, unless there are other issues going on, like the ex and the friend shouldn't be together because one of them is a terrible human being, or something.)

Thinking out loud
 

I guess for me I'm not going to police or expect for people who I'm not fucking/dating/involved with to filter their PDA. If I can't handle my EX's new interest then *I* need to take myself out of that harms way. Personal responsibility is key to a good healthy start when dealing these situations.


It would be uncomfortable for My Pack if i got all uncomfy cause their father was doing something with Lynn cause they went to Niagara Falls and we didn't. It would be unfair to my peoples.

I love this.

I'm uber-sensitive to items of interest such as the scenario Anya described. I also believe how a person handles such issues largely exemplifies the system of values and ethics that govern their 'universe'.

I do not even think once or twice about such things.

Even here at home, my constellation of close friends is very small;
and my friendships are mostly life long, established friendships.

My priori remains and retains loyalty to those who are near and dear
to my heart. I would never cross that boundary out of mutual respect
for heart issues that are central to maintaining a healthy relationship
with these particular friendship relationships.

Love this conversation!

I think there is a huge difference in dating the ex of a heart friend and dating the ex of someone with whom you've never had an intimate friend relationship.

Scenario: Let's say June and I have been friends for 10 years and have shared extremely personal things with one another in the confines of our private, loving friendship. Let's say that Jackhammer and I are going through hard times and I confide in June about some of it and she offers advice and a shoulder to lean on. Let's say she even offers a "Ohh girl, I think it's crappy that this is happening and can't believe Jackhammer is treating you this way." She listens to me cry, she offers amazing support.

Let's say Jackhammer and I decide to call it quits.

One month later, June is calling Jackhammer (whom she does not have a primary friendship with but whom she likes as a friend) flirting and asking her on a date. What if she has never once in the 10 years of our friendship picked up the phone to call Jackhammer but has chosen this time to express her interest?

Do I get to feel betrayed by that? Do I get to question why my friend of 10 years would essentially smile in my face and offer support during my breakup all the while planning to move in once she feels the time is right. Do I get to wonder if the entire duration of our friendship, she held some kind of secret torch for my then-partner that she was not willing to discuss with me?

What I'm trying to illustrate is the betrayal of the friendship, not an ownership issue with my 'ex'.

I'd probably feel pretty betrayed for having confided in my friend and operated on the knowledge that she cared about the outcome of my breakup because she wanted me to be happy, not because she had a stake in having a chance at my ex. Does that make sense?

I don't even think that is a Femme code. It's a friend code to me. My heart friends, my sistergirls who I will call when I'm at my lowest, those people who get to have access to me when I'm feeling vulnerable? People like Snowy and Arwen and Bubblin' and Juney and Jennifer and Julie and and and, these are people whom I trust to be honest with me and to operate with integrity. I think it's a mutual agreement.

It's a shame this is in the femme zone because this so-called code exists in the butch world and actually in everyone's world. I'm with honeyb on this and don't subscribe to any kind of code other than being an adult and acting like an adult.

I don't believe anyone has advocated dating a close friend's ex without talking to the friend first.

Where folks have had different opinions is about flirting and dating the ex of an acquaintance or someone in your greater social circle.

By the way....like Snow said flirting is not fucking and I have never understood why people get their noses bent out of shape over flirting with someone.....ex of a close friend or not, attached or not.

i don't really see that as operating without integrity - that to me is the part where i guess i don't see eye to eye with many posts on this thread. to me the emphasis on values and ethics people have made here makes it feel like this is some sort of moral absolute - which - for me, it isn't. i have values and ethics. two of those are taking personal responsibility for my emotions and communicating fiercely, lovingly, and directly. those are moral absolutes for me when it comes to any relationship. i haven't taken on the friend code folks are talking about in this thread as an unwritten mutual agreement in any of my relationships.

yes, if a friend started dating an ex when they knew it was a rough time for me, WITHOUT talking to me first, i'd be suspicious as hell. but if a friend started doing ANYTHING that they knew in their heart would hurt me without being honest or talking to me about it, or if i thought they carried a torch for my partner for ten years and they didn't feel they could tell me, that's a huge ass communication problem.

then again, if i broke up with someone i'd been with for ten years, i'd expect them to act differently, too. i mean, if rick and i broke up after seven years, i'd expect him to not go out and start acting the fool tomorrow, or totally stop communicating with me. if i thought he'd carried a torch for my best friend i'd be wondering why the hell i didn't know about it for that long.

Totally get that Medusa, and yes, I would consider it a betrayal by my friend....and also shitty on the part of my ex.

There is an interesting "other side" to that as well. When my sister was married, I became very close with her husband. They were together 10 years, and he became the big brother I never had. I'd go to him for advice and help, whenever I needed that "male perspective" and he stood by me during some really incredibly tough times.

When they split, my sister was furious that I didn't immediately cease any contact with him. For me, that was shitty too. I wasn't saying "oh I talked to Bill today" to her....and he wasn't either...but she expected me to dump someone important out of my life because they couldn't get along.

Loving this convo....important stuff...and good to hear everyone's opinion.

Bouncing off Medusa's post
 

Ding ding ding, girlfriends talk, we talk about the hard shit, the ugly and the joyful. I couldn't even begin to imagine sexy time with JackHammer even 15 years after the break up.

Jack's awesome but it's almost incestual (is that a word) cause you don't have sexy time with family:|. No bueno!

I'd never fuck/date/move in on my brothers exes (I've no sisters).(born to family)

Communication
 

I think this highlights something very important.

I think that we all make relationships, friendship or love ones (or both!), that are based on shared values and expectations. That isn't a complete absolute but I will say that you won't find me having people up in my close orbit who are messy (at least not any longer) in the way of thinking that people are "things" to be taken out and used or tossed aside when the need arises.
Some folks are absolutely ok with that level of messy-type behavior. I'm not one of them.

I'm also not going to form a close bond with someone who I perceive as putting so much importance on sex (or attention-seeking or anything else) that their entire way of being revolves around getting it, at any cost.

Why? Because of that whole "at any cost" thing.

I have another question to pose?

What if a mate has passed away?

Would you mind if your best girlfriend hooked up with your partner if you passed away?

If you wouldn't mind then, then what is the difference between a live ex and a passed away partner?

My thoughts are:

I want my friends happy

I want my ex's (after the period of wishing them to be devoured by flesh eating demons has passed) happy...

Every one of my relationships ended because my then partner and I were not a good match... Why would I want to prevent a possible good match where both my ex and my friend found a life time love? or even just a really good time...

Would it bother me, hurt me? ya, but that's my issue... I have possession issues and if someone was once mine, then they are always mine... But I know that's not real, not healthy, and not true... It's my issue and I deal with it...

The possibility of real ever lasting real mother fucking love is slim... I'm lucky to have tasted real love twice.. I wouldn't want to be the one that stood in two other people's way... even if it hurt like hell...