Who actually speaks for the Occupy movement? Who decides or articulates what its goals actually are? I'm struggling to identify who or what does this.

Desecration of property is certainly what has happened at St Paul's Cathedral in London. Rightly or wrongly, the "Occupy" movement has been perceived by many here in the UK as either participating in or supporting that desecration or, alternatively, standing back passively and enabling it to happen.

As a result, sympathy for the "Occupy" movement has fallen, certainly here in London, in recent weeks as this protest continues directly outside a place of worship.

They decide by general assembly. The people speaks for OWS and the people make the decisions.

http://occupywallst.org/

"Occupy Wall Street is leaderless resistance movement with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%. We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends and encourage the use of nonviolence to maximize the safety of all participants.

This #ows movement empowers real people to create real change from the bottom up. We want to see a general assembly in every backyard, on every street corner because we don't need Wall Street and we don't need politicians to build a better society."

Still not trying to stir up shit, but what happens if the members of the general assembly disagree? Majority vote? I don't see how that will go on forever before the dissenters will form their own splinter group, because they are not heard. Did that make any sense?

I'm wondering how many times we need to delay any kind of social and human progress by continuing to swirl with these kinds of comments which have been abundantly perpetuated, vetted and responded to clearly, succinctly, tactfully and with hope in many other ways besides violence and how long some need to continue to focus on the small exception to the otherwise preponderance of nonviolent, focused and progressive action and thinking that has been taken place.

They have had that issue. Majority vote wins. When John Lewis wanted to speak at OWS in Atlanta majority vote said no, but for the people that wanted to hear him they agreed on him speaking at the end of the general assembly. He didn't want to wait so he left. They came to a compromise.

All well & good but I walk past St Paul's Cathedral every morning and evening.

That's my closest "real" experience of the "Occupy" movement and, especially very early in the morning when I walk by, I see a lot of rubbish and streams of human waste. The gathering has prevented some acts of worship from taking place and, more generally, tourists are now avoiding the historic site. I cannot blame them - I would too.

So for me it ain't about these kinds of comments which have been abundantly perpetuated, vetted and responded to clearly, succinctly, tactfully , rather it's about what I see and experience 5 days of the week and it ain't positive. In fact, the opposite when London's already stretched police resources have to deal with the crowd control and petty crime that this has attracted.

Apologies if my personal experience isn't to everyone's liking or if it's viewed as biased (which it undoubtedly is but you got the diplomatic version) but that's how I call it.

The shocking truth about the crackdown on Occupy
 

Right on Naomi Wolf.

LINK: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...cupy?fb=optOut

I'm sorry to hear that's been your experience. It hasn't been mine.

I think most people want redress for the loss of their homes, businesses, savings, jobs and lives in the most peaceful, civil and satisfactory manner possible.

I know plenty of people who lost their jobs as a result of the "crisis". They worked in banking (as do I - and I won't apologise for that) so it wasn't just a loss of a job but, also, any equity they had built up in the company (profit shares, annual bonuses, monthly saving schemes etc) over periods of time up to 30 years. Some lost it all.

Although they're very frustrated by the crisis, by aspects of regulation of the financial sector and general incompetence, none of these folk are members of the Occupy movement.

If it's about redress for loss during the crisis, that's understandable (I lost much more during the crisis than most) but if they want to do it in a civil manner then, certainly, in the city I live they are going about it the wrong way. Furthermore, it has distanced them from the middle ground which has been angered by how they've turned the grounds outside St Pauls' into something resembling an itinerant camp. 99%? I'd be surprised if they have the support of 9% of the people here in London.

The UK has a very different set of financial regulations and a different system of taxation as does Canada. The US is more deregulated and has a different tax structure. And the losses here have not been insignificant.

We can swirl in semantics about percentages and degrees, but the point of the movement is simple enough, and frankly it's a point well taken. We can and should do better.

I would also submit to you that earth's human population is seven billion and counting, and so socio-economic injustice and societies no longer set up to even present the simulacrum of opportunity and stratification and instead represent increasingly polarized factions of the "haves" and "have nots" are primed for something other than "business as usual." I wouldn't take something away from people that they believe they deserve or have come to respect and expect no reaction. We're clearly seeing cause and effect in motion.

Don’t look to billion dollar corporations who pay ZERO taxes for help.

Don’t look to the businesses who actually get paid by our government to move our jobs elsewhere.

Don’t look to the rich who pay less taxes than the rest of us. They pay 17% (if they pay anything at all. And many don’t, thanks to awesome loopholes); we pay 35%.

Certainly don’t look to the financial sector, the cause of this mess in the first place.

Where should we get money to stimulate the economy and balance the federal budget?

Why out of the mouths of the poor and the hungry of course.

*I am wondering how giving people less to eat will supply enough money to stimulate the economy? It must make sense if Congress wants to do it. They are noted for their sense making skills after all. What do the poor need to eat for anyway? Think of how much money we could save if they would all just starve already. I mean considering how warm it is because of global climate change clearly they won’t be freezing to death anytime soon. What choice do we have?

The poor have long been whiny, annoying, buzz kills. Always wanting food, clothing, warmth, housing, medical care, they even wish for dental care, and I’m so sick of hearing how they want jobs. Anarchists. If they would just spend more time working and less time complaining we wouldn’t have to starve them to death. Clearly tolerating their sorry asses hasn’t worked. Feeding them certainly doesn’t make any sense anymore. And if they are weak enough maybe they won’t keep trying to get to the voting booths.

It’s about time we actively seek their timely demise. We can't afford poor people. And clearly they aren’t taking the hint. They insist on existing. They can’t even starve gracefully.



US Congress Seeks to Cut Food Stamp Program
Problems for poor to intensify if food-stamps program that assists 45 million people gets reduced.

Advocates for the poor and often hungry in the US say that problems for the nation's needy could intensify if the agriculture department bows to pressure from congress to reduce food-assistance schemes.

Politicians are looking at ways to stimulate the economy and balance the federal budget with a proposed $4.2bn cut in its food-stamps program that currently assists 45 million people.

According to a recent US government report, some 15 per cent of Americans are relying on food stamps. That is a 50 per cent jump from last year at a cost of $65bn per year.

Our government never ceases to amaze me. They have literally screwed out food system and now they will starve people.

Big ****ing deal! This is the way the frustrated and disadvantagd lobby, in the streets. It has been played out many times in history and will, whether you like it or not. This is a shaming and elitist attitude to have. I'm sorry the "litter" in front of St. Paul's does'nt fit into your neat little idealogical box, but the very social fabric of our civilization is being torn apart due to the waste, corruption, extortion, unaccountability, and unfettered greed behind closed doors by those at the very top and their stubborness in refusing to address these issues, preferring personal gain at the expense of long-term social stability. Clean up this corruption at the top and put these people in jail instead of the OWS campers. "Litter" in the streets is small potatoes compared to corporate and purchasable.gov. and their wasteful spending.

to get a full understanding of how the decision making is done, you might try attending your local Occupy general assembly. they are open to anyone that wants to participate and should you decide to show up and participate in the voting on of anything your vote will be counted. you'll even get an opportunity to be heard just by using a few hand signals. refreshing, actually, how effective...if not a little long.....this process actually is. everyone gets to be heard and all points voiced are discussed and voted on. it's quite fascinating.

I believe your right to protest ends where my nose begins, literally. If you want to march, fine. But mess with cultural monuments or even public parks spoiled for the rest of us, and drive off business around the parks, and sorry, you lose my sympathy.

In the past 6 years I have had a house foreclosed upon and was laid off. I've seen my daughter, 20, struggle to find a job at minimum wage places that just aren't hiring.

In this experience, I discovered that:

* There is government assistance programs for people losing their homes, but they are geared towards helping the banks, not the people. Banks often will not work towards short sales or loan modifications because, depending on how much you owe vs. how much your house is now valued at, they stand to make more money from the government to let it go into foreclosure.

* I had a FHA Housing counselor tell me that I didn't qualify for assistance because I wasn't behind enough in my payments. Come back in 6 months. And don't pay your mortgage during that time frame. Really? You're telling me not to pay what I can and get further behind in the hopes I qualify then?

* I had an attorney tell me to just walk away, I would be more likely to qualify for bankruptcy. In principle I had issues with this as the only thing I really owed to anyone was the house and while I could make payments, I needed the loan modified to fit my budget. He told me probably wasn't going to happen and that this would be the best solution for me. I had a moral issue on defaulting on a commitment I had made, I just needed the terms of that commitment modified.

* When I was laid off, I had to pay for health insurance through Cobra. The cost was equivalent to half my unemployment checks. I soon was without health insurance.

Long story short....the Government system doesn't work unless you are already rich and really don't need the system to begin with.

The company for which I work now, recently gave the CEO a whopping 37% increase even though the company has not seen "profitable" days since 2000. We've had a rash of lay offs with more projected in the future. How did they derive on the new pay for our CEO? On performance? No. They bench marked other CEO's in other companies to see what their CEO's were making to set our CEO's wage. A common practice. The rich get richer when you're at the top. The rest of us? Lose our jobs in "reductions" due to the poor economy, of which the rich helped create.

The thing with sympathy is you can't eat it, wear it, burn it to keep warm, or use it to buy medicine. You can't pay your mortgage with it either. So I don't think it's really of any use. And thank god for that. Look around the world, it's a pretty unsympathetic place. The only thing harder to find than sympathy or compassion is a job.

If we had to wait for sympathy to save ourselves, well... let's just say I'm glad we don't.

Sympathy not needed.

We all could use some equity of treatment though. And since nobody who is advantaged or even thinks they are heading in that direction is going to be in favor of, or have any sympathy for, a more equitable and fair society then the majority of people who are not advantaged are just going to have to ignore the whining of the rich and would be rich and make it happen in spite of them. But first they have to see what's wrong, understand the lies, believe in themselves and in their country. And that's the job of OWS to be a visible reminder of what is very wrong. And to help us see more clearly, to help us understand what happened and how it all went so very wrong. If we don't open our eyes those that can will continue to steal our dreams from us. We have to take back the government from the control of the few. We need to ensure that the promise of a government that is of the people, by the people and for the people does not perish from the earth.

it's so wierd that you say that cuz that's exactly how i feel about elevating someone else's lifestyle at the expense of my own and then for it to be against the law for me to have something to say about that. :) funny how that works. i'm soooo glad i don't need a stranger's sympathy to be capable of moral enlightenment.

imagine a world of gardeners/farmers that abhorred the dirt. what would we eat?

As I was watching the news this morning, a story about Occupy SF was aired. They went to Union Square yesterday during the Black Friday madness to protest. Thousands of shop til you drop buying from big department stores were there to see the Xmas tree light up. One of the Occupy leaders (yes there are leaders whether or not anyone wants to admit that) was interviewed and he said we should not shop AT ALL. We should make gifts, not buy them.

This struck me as completely wrong-headed. I have no gripes with a slow down of shopping corporate stores. However we should be shopping exclusively at small local businesses. Small business is the backbone of creating and maintaining communities and the real economy.

It is 'small business saturday' and we should all shop small local business every day not just today.