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-   -   OCCUPY WALL STREET (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3950)

BstlMyhart 11-26-2011 10:28 PM
thank you for speaking to this. while some of the officers may hold your view, i have talked to several officers in my state who have a different viewpoint... that seems to be that the ows are wasting everyone's time, money and energy and should go home and if they don't they deserve and should expect a violent smack down from the pd. i would love to believe that it is just a lack of training, but having known at least one of these officers (she is my cousin, unfortunately) i have to say that this is how she thought prior to becoming part of the police department. i believe that it goes much deeper than training, it is who the pd recruits, allows to wear a badge, it is the qualities and behaviors in the officers that are nurtured and encouraged. in cali (at least) it seems that officers that show a penchant for violence and power are promoted and rewarded. imho my cousin has NO business whatsoever wearing a badge and carrying a gun. her language is violent, angry and racist, she boasts about the power of her position, and quite frankly i am very glad that she lives some 400 miles away from me, but i know that there are many more out there like her. i know more officers like her. i also see from posts like yours that there are people in law enforcement who are not, and it gives me hope.

greeneyedgrrl



I do know there are those in law enforcement that believe that brute force is always the answer...and they thrive on it. However, I do not have that mentality, nor do many of my co-workers nor the vast majority of the people in law enforcement in my area. There will always be those who go overboard, or want to, when it comes to using force. It is up to the rest of us to stop the culprit when it is out of order and not justified. Luckily, we have those in my facility who aren't afraid to step in and stop those actions when warranted. Ultimately, it falls on the shoulders of supervisors, higher ranking officers, to maintain the humanity of law enforcement. That is the training needed at this point for the Occupy protests...find a better way to handle the situation at hand to do your job and do it effectively.
I have promoted through the ranks and am now a Lieutenant. I did not earn this because I can "kick ass" if need be. I earned it because I use the most important muscle in my aresonal first...my brain.
The tide is changing...it still needs encouragement to continue to do so.
And yes there is fear on our part...as I said, WE want to go home at the end of our shift safe. I have been trained how to maintain my selfcontrol when in fear for my life without severly hurting or killing anyone...I believe anyone can.

greeneyedgrrl 11-26-2011 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BstlMyhart (Post 474407)
I do know there is are those in law enforcement that believe that brute force is always the answer...and they thrive on it. However, I do not have that mentality, nor do many of my co-workers nor the vast majority of the people in law enforcement in my area. There will always be those who go overboard, or want to, when it comes to using force. It is up to the rest of us to stop the culprit when it is out of order and not justified. Luckily, we have those in my facility who aren't afraid to step in and stop those actions when warranted. Ultimately, it falls on the shoulders of supervisors, higher ranking officers, to maintain the humanity of law enforcement. That is the training needed at this point for the Occupy protests...find a better way to handle the situation at hand to do your job and do it effectively.
I have promoted through the ranks and am now a Lieutenant. I did not earn this because I can "kick ass" if need be. I earned it because I use the most important muscle in my aresonal first...my brain.
The tide is changing...it still needs encouragement to continue to do so.
And yes there is fear on our part...as I said, WE want to go home at the end of our shift safe. I have been trained how to maintain my selfcontrol when in fear for my life without severly hurting or killing anyone...I believe anyone can.
it sounds like you know more officers that think like you than not... and that is fantastic. i really hope that change is happening here as well; i have not seen it in my state, and i realize that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't taking place, it is just outside of my experience... i have had experiences with both pd and co in my state which has been mostly, not all, negative.

SoNotHer 11-26-2011 10:42 PM
BstlMyHart wrote - "I have promoted through the ranks and am now a Lieutenant. I did not earn this because I can "kick ass" if need be. I earned it because I use the most important muscle in my aresonal first...my brain. The tide is changing...it still needs encouragement to continue to do so. And yes there is fear on our part...as I said, WE want to go home at the end of our shift safe. I have been trained how to maintain my selfcontrol when in fear for my life without severly hurting or killing anyone...I believe anyone can."

This is the kind of wisdom and thinking that needs to accompany any position of power and force. Thank you for your post.

BstlMyhart 11-26-2011 10:49 PM
greeneyedgrrl writes--it sounds like you know more officers that think like you than not... and that is fantastic. i really hope that change is happening here as well; i have not seen it in my state, and i realize that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't taking place, it is just outside of my experience... i have had experiences with both pd and co in my state which has been mostly, not all, negative.

SoNotHer writes-This is the kind of wisdom and thinking that needs to accompany any position of power and force. Thank you for your post.



It boils down to respect. I get the behavior I expect by showing respect...and am respected back. Makes defusing a potentially bad situation in the facility much easier.

Bard 11-26-2011 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BstlMyhart (Post 474407)
thank you for speaking to this. while some of the officers may hold your view, i have talked to several officers in my state who have a different viewpoint... that seems to be that the ows are wasting everyone's time, money and energy and should go home and if they don't they deserve and should expect a violent smack down from the pd. i would love to believe that it is just a lack of training, but having known at least one of these officers (she is my cousin, unfortunately) i have to say that this is how she thought prior to becoming part of the police department. i believe that it goes much deeper than training, it is who the pd recruits, allows to wear a badge, it is the qualities and behaviors in the officers that are nurtured and encouraged. in cali (at least) it seems that officers that show a penchant for violence and power are promoted and rewarded. imho my cousin has NO business whatsoever wearing a badge and carrying a gun. her language is violent, angry and racist, she boasts about the power of her position, and quite frankly i am very glad that she lives some 400 miles away from me, but i know that there are many more out there like her. i know more officers like her. i also see from posts like yours that there are people in law enforcement who are not, and it gives me hope.

greeneyedgrrl



I do know there are those in law enforcement that believe that brute force is always the answer...and they thrive on it. However, I do not have that mentality, nor do many of my co-workers nor the vast majority of the people in law enforcement in my area. There will always be those who go overboard, or want to, when it comes to using force. It is up to the rest of us to stop the culprit when it is out of order and not justified. Luckily, we have those in my facility who aren't afraid to step in and stop those actions when warranted. Ultimately, it falls on the shoulders of supervisors, higher ranking officers, to maintain the humanity of law enforcement. That is the training needed at this point for the Occupy protests...find a better way to handle the situation at hand to do your job and do it effectively.
I have promoted through the ranks and am now a Lieutenant. I did not earn this because I can "kick ass" if need be. I earned it because I use the most important muscle in my aresonal first...my brain.
The tide is changing...it still needs encouragement to continue to do so.
And yes there is fear on our part...as I said, WE want to go home at the end of our shift safe. I have been trained how to maintain my selfcontrol when in fear for my life without severly hurting or killing anyone...I believe anyone can.
well put and better the I could have expressed it most in my department feel that way and honestly I have always known that I can get further with communication first and as a Corporal I try to lead with that in mind

Ciaran 11-26-2011 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diavolo (Post 474343)
The church has no right after what they did to us in California. None. They have no right in America after they allowed the protests at the funerals of fallen soldiers. They lose the right to absolution from desecration in this country by their behavior.
Neither you nor anyone else in this "Occupy" movement has the right to judge, same as religious zealots do not have that right. Two sides of the same coin in my book and the coin looks rather tainted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diavolo (Post 474343)
When it's all said and done, St. Peter is going to look at these clowns and ask them why in the world they think they should be allowed past the pearly gates because they have not followed God's word.
How the **** do you know what St. Peter thinks? :|

persiphone 11-26-2011 11:46 PM
where i live the churches support the Occupy movement and have even offered to allow the protesters to camp in their parking lot. :) they even have erected signs in support of the uprising on the church lawns. we never hear anything along the lines of protesters = degenerate/protesters/mentally ill/homeless/etc/etc/etc/desecraters/blahblah.

i love when churchy people are actually acting like christians. just sayin.

Ciaran 11-26-2011 11:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by persiphone (Post 474473)
where i live the churches support the Occupy movement and have even offered to allow the protesters to camp in their parking lot. :) they even have erected signs in support of the uprising on the church lawns. we never hear anything along the lines of protesters = degenerate/protesters/mentally ill/homeless/etc/etc/etc/desecraters/blahblah.

i love when churchy people are actually acting like christians. just sayin.
Your interpretation of "acting like christians" is different from mine. just sayin.

persiphone 11-27-2011 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran (Post 474483)
Your interpretation of "acting like christians" is different from mine. just sayin.
that's quite obvious :)

Ebon 11-27-2011 12:42 AM
The Guy Fawkes Mask
 
This is an article about the Guy Fawkes masks that some of the people wear at the protest. The article is an interview with Alan Moore. The gentleman that wrote V for Vendetta which is where the mask is from.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011...?newsfeed=true

Quote:
The comic-book writer Alan Moore is not usually surprised when his creations find a life for themselves away from the printed page. Strips he penned in the 1980s and 90s have been fed through the Hollywood patty-maker, never to his great satisfaction, resulting in both critical hits and terrible flops; fads for T-shirts, badges and shouted slogans have emerged from characters and conceits he has dreamed up for titles such as Watchmen and From Hell. "I suppose I've gotten used to the fact," says the 58-year-old, "that some of my fictions percolate out into the material world."

But Moore has been caught off-guard in recent years, and particularly in 2011, by the inescapable presence of a certain mask being worn at protests around the world. A sallow, smirking likeness of Guy Fawkes – created by Moore and the artist David Lloyd for their 1982 series V for Vendetta. It has a confused lineage, this mask: the plastic replica that thousands of demonstrators have been wearing is actually a bit of tie-in merchandise from the film version of V for Vendetta, a Joel Silver production made (quite badly) in 2006. Nevertheless, at the disparate Occupy sit-ins this year – in New York, Moscow, Rio, Rome and elsewhere – as well as the repeated anti-government actions in Athens and the gatherings outside G20 and G8 conferences in London and L'Aquila in 2009, the V for Vendetta mask has been a fixture. Julian Assange recently stepped out wearing one, and last week there was a sort of official embalmment of the mask as a symbol of popular feeling when Shepard Fairey altered his famous "Hope" image of Barack Obama to portray a protester wearing one.

It all comes back to Moore – a private man with knotty greying hair and a magnificent beard, who prefers to live without an internet connection and who has not had a working telly for months "on an obscure point of principle" about the digital signal in his hometown of Northampton. He has never yet properly commented on the Vendetta mask phenomenon, and speaking on the phone from his home, Moore seems variously baffled, tickled, roused and quite pleased that his creation has become such a prominent emblem of modern activism.

"I suppose when I was writing V for Vendetta I would in my secret heart of hearts have thought: wouldn't it be great if these ideas actually made an impact? So when you start to see that idle fantasy intrude on the regular world… It's peculiar. It feels like a character I created 30 years ago has somehow escaped the realm of fiction."

V for Vendetta tells of a future Britain (actually 1997, nearly two decades into the future when Moore wrote it) under the heel of a dictatorship. The population are depressed and doing little to help themselves. Enter Evey, an orphan, and V, a costumed vigilante who takes an interest in her. Over 38 chapters, each titled with a word beginning with "V", we follow the brutal, loquacious antihero and his apprentice as they torment the ruling powers with acts of violent resistance. Throughout, V wears a mask that he never removes: bleached skin and rosy cheeks, pencil beard, eyes half shut above an inscrutable grin. You've probably come to know it well.

"That smile is so haunting," says Moore. "I tried to use the cryptic nature of it to dramatic effect. We could show a picture of the character just standing there, silently, with an expression that could have been pleasant, breezy or more sinister." As well as the mask, Occupy protesters have taken up as a marrying slogan "We are the 99%"; a reference, originally, to American dissatisfaction with the richest 1% of the US population having such vast control over the country. "And when you've got a sea of V masks, I suppose it makes the protesters appear to be almost a single organism – this "99%" we hear so much about. That in itself is formidable. I can see why the protesters have taken to it."
Above is only part of the article. Check out the link if you want to read the whole thing.

Ebon 11-27-2011 12:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by persiphone (Post 474473)
where i live the churches support the Occupy movement and have even offered to allow the protesters to camp in their parking lot. :) they even have erected signs in support of the uprising on the church lawns. we never hear anything along the lines of protesters = degenerate/protesters/mentally ill/homeless/etc/etc/etc/desecraters/blahblah.

i love when churchy people are actually acting like christians. just sayin.
It seems that quite often people forget about the Christ part of their Christianity. This is really cool to hear.

Ebon 11-27-2011 12:51 AM
Also
 
US Senate To Vote On Bill That Will Allow The Military To Arrest Americans On American Soil And Hold Them Indefinitely

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/11...-indefinitely/

Quote:
Since Occupy Wall Street began, American police officers have arrested thousands of people for exercising their constitutionally protected right to protest. On Monday or Tuesday, the US Senate will vote on a bill that would give the President the ability to order the military to arrest and imprison American citizens anywhere in the world for an indefinite period of time.

A provision of S. 1867, or the National Defense Authorization Act bill, written by Senators John McCain and Carl Levin, declares American soil a battlefield and allows the President and all future Chief Executives to order the military to arrest and detain American citizens, innocent or not, without charge or trial. In other words, if this bill passes and the President signs it, OWS protesters or any American could end up arrested and indefinitely locked up by the military without the guaranteed right to due process or a speedy trial.



http://tribuneofthepeople.files.word...29397606_n.jpg

SoNotHer 11-27-2011 12:54 AM
Are you kidding me? WTF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebon (Post 474522)
US Senate To Vote On Bill That Will Allow The Military To Arrest Americans On American Soil And Hold Them Indefinitely

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/11...-indefinitely/






http://tribuneofthepeople.files.word...29397606_n.jpg

greeneyedgrrl 11-27-2011 12:58 AM
if this is true...this seems to me to be the first phase of a civil war, with only one side is armed to the hilt with weapons while the other is not, this concerns me.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ackdown-occupy

http://inthesetimes.com/uprising/ent...ccupy_attacks/

Ebon 11-27-2011 01:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl (Post 474530)
if this is true...this seems to me to be the first phase of a civil war, with only one side is armed to the hilt with weapons while the other is not, this concerns me.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ackdown-occupy

http://inthesetimes.com/uprising/ent...ccupy_attacks/
Come to Texas. You can buy any arms you need and support local business all at the same time.

persiphone 11-27-2011 01:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebon (Post 474514)
It seems that quite often people forget about the Christ part of their Christianity. This is really cool to hear.

if i believed in such things i'd agree with you. i think the idea of a jesus is as bizarre as adam and eve, virgin moms, resurrections, talking snakes, and parting an ocean with a stick. however, the "message" of christianity is to love thy brother. and i'm pretty sure "jesus" was quoted in the bible speaking out against wealth. if i really gave a shit i could look it up. nope...too lazy. neener.

persiphone 11-27-2011 01:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNotHer (Post 474526)
Are you kidding me? WTF


c'mon.....this isn't really a surprise, is it? told ya...the infrastructure is in place. i mean, they don't make any bones about it and it's obvious (at least to me) what the temperature is on this issue in the white house. this comes on the heels of that other horrid bill about limiting internet access.

greeneyedgrrl 11-27-2011 01:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebon (Post 474531)
Come to Texas. You can buy any arms you need and support local business all at the same time.
uuum... thanks, but no. i'm not a fan of guns... they make it too easy for people to kill people instead of problem solving. if i had my way guns would be made into something useful... like planters. ;)

SoNotHer 11-27-2011 01:21 AM
And of course we are talking about rectal temperature taking...

Thank you for bringing up the internet bill. Folks should be focusing on it -

http://americancensorship.org/

Quote:
Originally Posted by persiphone (Post 474534)
c'mon.....this isn't really a surprise, is it? told ya...the infrastructure is in place. i mean, they don't make any bones about it and it's obvious (at least to me) what the temperature is on this isuue in the white house. this comes on the heels of that other horrid bill about limiting internet access.

Toughy 11-27-2011 02:11 AM
One of the things I am most thankful for has to do with my nephew. He is a NM State Policeman and has been for about 10 years. He is no longer a patrol officer.....thank all powers to be.....he is a detective which means he investigates crimes. He is no longer stopping cars on deserted highways with crappy training.

What I know about cops is this: every single cop is inadequately trained in every area.....but particularly in de-escalation techniques.....it's way to easy to do pepper spray and taser rather than talk......it's way to easy to be a cop/prison guard.

by the way.....tazer kills people every year.....it is not a non-lethal deterrent method and cops should never be told nor trained as if it is non-lethal.....

in my day we talked to the cops and told them when we would be doing arrest worthy acts....the sit-in's at UCDavis are classic examples.....you cuff them and take them away......you NEVER EVER NEVER use military grade (which is what has been used in all cases) pepper spray on non-violent protestors risking arrest.....this is not the 60's....


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