I had no idea they used to be a recording company! I'd actually love to hear more about that
(Going to Google!)

This what I used to know them as. And if you scroll down to the album covers, I think I owned most of those at one point.

This was very cool to find.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Rider-Cris-Williamson/dp/B0006SST0Y"]This [/ame]was my first and I still listen to it somewhat regularly.

Between the bookstores I ran and the concerts/festivals I was a part of, I worked with both Olivia and Ladyslipper for a good number of years. Some amazing women doing some amazing things at the time.

How so? How would anyone know? Many of you just were at the BFP Reunion or have been in a group of butches where they were various identities. Are you telling me that male id'd butches look and act different than woman/female butches?

Billy, I have been a lesbian for 30 years and have very masculine butch friends as well. We have never been turned away from lesbian events.

I absolutely agree with this.

Having read all the previous posts...
 

I wanted to add that cruising had been my choice of vacation venues for several years...Alaska, Eastern and Western Carribean, Nova Scotia, Mexico, Bermuda. My partner at the time and I researched carefully the cruises we felt we would be most comfortable on, the cost, the ports of call, etc. We looked in depth at Olivia as we had been Robin Tyler supporters for years through her music promotions and such. Something kind of got lost in the mix over the past few years, though. We had always used the same travel agent that knew us well. My partner had some masculine traits that were certainly noticable to the general public. Our travel agent suggested we go with a mainstream cruiseline as Olivia had become more and more 'selective' of their potential patrons. Not only was our agent inferring issues with the butch-femme dynamic but other underpinnings were alive and well, too. I could not leave that alone, of course. After some investigative delving we learned that Olivia - and I would say perhaps even the more affluent attracting cruiselines (Seven Seas, Seabourne, Celebrity, Cunard) - researched their potential passengers as to income level, credit worthiness, asset assessments, the overall 'value' of the person. We felt we were being scrutinized to buy a multimillion dollar home. No way for those myriad of reasons could we support such business practices. We have cruised Norwegian Cruiselines and found them to be more than accomodating...however, at this point I would only opt to support any business/venue that keeps in mind two premises: 1) one that would welcome ALL of our community and, 2) my safety.

While cruising can be the ultimate vacation for many...time has made me think differently. The cruiselines we did use welcomed us, my elderly mother, my crotchety 84 year old Aunt, and my 94 year old well traveled Aunt - yes, that flew in a helicopter and landed on Mendenhall Glacier. I would not ever want to lose those memories.

Now our environment is more in peril. I look for vacation venues that do not damage the environment as well as a means to somehow support all of my community.

Now we have folks such as Medusa and Jack who have been visionaries and provided a welcoming, safe space for all of us. The cost was minimal compared to any cruise. No, I did not attend the Reunion but I have lived vicariously through the photos and the posts. I am not going to miss 2011, either.

I can only hope MountainStar has a safe and memory-filled cruise. I just have to say that we have a gift of community being practically given to us with the support of this site. We are welcomed to this TABLE...let's enjoy this banquet.[/COLOR]

This has nothing to do with how long you have been a Lesbian ...And we are not talking about ALL Lesbian events ....This is about 1 cruise line and their policy ! Like I said before I bet you the price of that cruise YOU because of your looks and their policy YOU are NOT getting on that ship ! I mean is this a ego thing here , because you have been a Lesbian for 30 years and have never been turned away from a Lesbian event , how dare they turn ME away ...Is there a special card you can flash ...And after everything you have read on this thread , I think you have missed the point ....

Maybe it's just me, but I see quite the few butch women in their videos. In keeping in mind that Olivia is "women's space" and was set up like many other women's spaces to provide safe space for women, I think they have been very successful in doing so.

I don't get being non-inclusive to transwomen. ( My definition is an MTF who lives life as a woman). I do however clearly get and support their right to exclude men. ( Trans or otherwise). I know this is not the intention of this thread to dissect the politics of gender othering, however since everyone else is tossing out their opinions, I felt safe in doing likewise. I don't have any problem with excluding men from women's space.

Don't know if the video will post, if not here is the link to their videos. There are a lot of butch women there, whether they embrace the term "butch" or not, they are clearly masculine presenting women, just not "male" presenting. To deny women only space is blatant sexism, in as much as supporting trans rights or lesbian rights, I can not do so at the expense of denying "women" space.

Hell, I would love to do the resort vacation ( not necessarily cruise) but until we can afford to do so and make arrangements for the boy to vacay with grandparents at the same time, it is not on our list.



http://www.olivia.com/Travel/experie...hmb_cruise.jpg

http://www.olivia.com/Travel/default.aspx

*I* for one am glad that I am part of a site and community that is not going to hood wink me and that will have gatherings that are inclusive to all genders in the spectrum!!!


What a great fucking thing to be part of!!!

Thank you BFP!!!



:praying:

Look different? If you read my post in its' entirety you would have noticed the first 2 words..."appearance aside"
Act different? No

What I am saying is focused on energy, natural instinct, and experience.
I am also talking about Olivia Cruise Lines only, which I stated in my post. It is a classist company geared towards lesbians of an above average household income!!! The employees have filters on from the get go!!! It is so very obvious to me how uneducated they are/were on dealing with trans issues when it came down to customer service. I was privy with my presence to both conversations Snow had with their customer service people and they made a mess of it. I have no desire to be in a female only space or a desire to try and make a female only space inclusive to guys like me.

IMO, if/when a group of male id'd butches come walking up onto their dock they may be, probably will be, perceived as frat guy like with the ability to be more rowdy/aggressive, or threatening even depending on said employees education about our community.

Bulldog...i hope this helps!!! :)

My wife and I have been on two Olivia Cruises in the past... this century! I have to say that this was our experience as well... I wore suits and ties at night and she wore dresses... We saw many many masculine presenting Butches and no one was harrassed at all in our experience. I think Olivia needs some serious PR upgrades if they want to look toward a solid future in providing cruises to our community... and keep up with a younger generation... where clearly there is a deeper and broader acceptance of our rainbow of gender expression...

That in mind, we are not really interested in Olivia in the future. I think if we went on a cruise again we would look at Sweet Cruises based on some things that were posted here as well as the fact that they do good things as they are cruising... It is not simply about consumption but about giving back... and I like that a lot... With that being said... we have a lot more on our travel agenda over cruises...

Aside from the whole issue of what Olivia does or does not do?
I have to admit I am not even a smidge interested in going on a cruise. (cruising in the queer sense is not off the list though).

Here is one of the reasons for my disdain:

Not to get too detailed.
I agree with what Medusa said
I personally know many very masculine looking Butches that have had a great time on Olivia Cruises
I remember the Music Label very well, an ex of mine had a record with them.
Myself, I would and have criticized any BF site that wanted to create a "site event" around an Olivia cruise, because it would not be a place all would be welcome and BF sites tend to be more diverse than Lesbian events. Oh and because frankly the expense would also cut out so many people that it would be insulting, imho.
Would i go on an Olivia Cruise?
Someone else wants to foot the bill, sure ;) Ok its not really my :tea: :)
It s way down on my list of things I would like to do.. But that's any cruise, any where..Just not my idea of fun...
Feel free to send me free cruise tickets, along with the air fare to get there..and change my mind ;)
and Morning Star, have a great time ; )

No I haven't missed the point. As many here have reported many butches have gone on Olivia Cruises and not been turned away. I know about lesbian events because I'm a lesbian and am qualified to say what my sense is regarding where I would or would not be welcome.

How are they going to know you are male identified butches?

You say you have no desire to be in female only space. That makes sense to me. It seems male identified people wouldn't want to go but are complaining that they are being excluded. That doesn't make sense to me.

Well since you're the authority on Lesbian Events maybe you would like to explain to us what it was about the one member and his group of friends that got him turned away (and remember, that person at that time was under the impression that he was a lesbian). Maybe the person who told them they weren't welcome was an Oracle of some kind and could sense an aura of Future Man? Honestly, Bulldog. If it happened to one person, it DOES have the potential to happen again.

I love how non lesbians are some how the authority.

seriously, that's your response? A question was asked -how can you know you wouldn't be turned away as a masculine looking person if another masculine looking person WAS turned away in the past? The point being, they may not care if YOU see yourself as a lesbian, THEY may see you as a masculine person and turn you away regardless.