Jet,

Can I ask where you live? What state?

Employment is the toughest issue for transfolks. The gender identity clause in many places is merely lip service.

I seriously would NOT come out as trans at an interview. I've done it, and I won't do it again.

If you come out at an interview, and you don't get hired, there's nothing you can do about it.

If you ensure you have the job first, and they fire you when you come out, you will be able to cover your ass better.

Since deciding to transition, I have been an many job interviews (after losing my job the day after coming out as trans).

Before I applied anywhere, though, I would look into what my city, county, and state have to say about gender identity, so I know what companies are 'supposed to' abide by.


Dylan

First off......and this is just *me*......I wouldn't put myself under the stress of applying for a new job at the same time I'm beginning my medical transition.......unless, of course, you absolutely have no choice.

Secondly, I think you need to go about the process in the way that feels best and most right *to you*. Personally, I would not fool with HR until I had to......certainly not prior to even securing an interview.

I think there are a number of correct ways to go about this; you have to find the way that feels most right for you.

And I'd use the men's room. If you are introducing yourself as Parker and presenting yourself as the man you are, then the men's room is the only option.

I would to talk with HR people
And legal.

If I would get hired tomorrow I wouldn't pass. They would see the transitiopn process. This is the reason I feel In forming them at the onset is important. I met an FTM from turner broadcast who is in transit. HR there issued a. Memo to fellow workers about his transition and that they were to be respectful and supportive.

Yeah, my approach has changed greatly over time. I finally ended up starting my own business

I've learned (again, in my own experience) that many 'diversity' policies (including Austin's city 'diversity' policy) are merely lip service to make the company look good. ALL of the interviewers I've had since researching companies' diversity policies have been wonderful about gay issues, but completely ignorant and fearful of trans issues.

I also agree with Thinker that ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do, and I MORE than agree that I (personally) wouldn't interview for jobs during transition unless I absolutely had to.

My thoughts on this today are COMPLETELY, 100% different than they were years ago


Dylan

I guess I was pretty lucky to get a job at where I work now.. At the interview, I told them my prefered pronouns, the name I would be changing to legally, and that I would be starting hormones.. I am lucky to live and work in a very diverse and queer friendly area with managers that may not *get* it, but have been exposed to trans people and were cool with taking me for who I was and on my work history and not my gender..

Not everyone is that lucky or CAN be that open with an employer. If I were still living in the South, I doubt very much if I could have gotten the job I have now and transitioned while working.. Thankfully, I was and am that lucky.. The customers have seen me transition and have asked questions, some are just confused and think they pegged me as female by mistake. I get to educate others on transgender issues and I have tried to invite a more open and welcoming attitude to those along the gender spectrum..

This is just my experience, like I said, I kinda lucked out in some ways. I would never suggest that anyone put themselves in danger by transtioning on the job, but it can work out. Just my .2 on the subject :)

-Tony

Sure. And I would hope that would be the case. BUT.

That is very different from *applying* for jobs......in the "cold calling" sense. My position about leaving HR out of it has to do with applying.....not dealing with someone who already has a job.

Sorry for any confusion there...

Outstanding advice.

I wouldn't come out at an interview.

I had a lengthy post that I lost on my phone

Bottom line

I'm in the creatve field where company image is everything

I'm in an at will state where you can get fired for any reason

This aint gonna fly no matter how you cut it

I'm also confused. I thought you were talking about sending a letter with your resume and cover letter. That's how I read your posts.

Just because you're in an at will state doesn't mean they can necessarily fire you for being trans. It means, you need to research what city, county, and state ordinances your place of work has to follow.

It also means you're going to have to keep a LOT of documentation. You are really really really going to want ANY conversations you have with coworkers, higher ups, etc in email. Trust me on this one.

IF you live in a city/county/state with a gender identity ordinance, I highly highly suggest finding out how much the people who monitor that ordinance (in Austin, it's called the Human Rights Commission/and EEOC) KNOW about gender identity. We DO have an ordinance in Austin, but the people who monitor that sort of thing here are completely ignorant as to what it means. When I filed my complaint after being fired for being trans, they kept lumping me into the gay arena (which there was never an issue at my company with being gay...the issue didn't arise until I came out as trans). The EEOC people couldn't grasp what the problem was. Even after I filled out the paperwork, they changed the wording in my paperwork to reflect a queer issue...which it just wasn't. I had to go back three times, and I finally had to take an advocate with me to speak for me, so I had a witness.

You are going to have to arm yourself with knowledge, and you're going to (probably) have to educate some people. Sad but true.

The best thing you can do though is FIND OUT FIRST what your rights are. The second best thing you can do is DOCUMENT every single interaction with an email. For realz. Sad but true again.


Dylan

I want to write a letter to HR

And probably after the interview if I'm strong candidate

I don't currently pass as male
I feel addressing this early on is important because of the nature of my field; this is at a corporate level where the image of the company and its employees is everything.

If I adress this early on I risk losing a position

If I address after I'm hired
I risk losing job

This is an "at will" state
Where they can fire you over anything.

My transition won't go unnoticed.

Starting your medical transition while in the midst of any other big thing can be pretty rough. Again, if you don't *have* to deal with a job search right now then maybe you could hold off until you are passing.

If both must happen at the same time, then I really think you're going to have to go about it in the way that feels right and comfortable to you. What Dylan said about educating yourself in advance is critical. After that, you have to do what you think is best. There isn't one right way to do it.

Good luck.

I'm not trying to argue with you, but I feel as though you're taking it as argument

You're going to do what you're going to do and what makes you comfortable

I'm speaking from my own experience in all of this as someone who lost their job in an at will state and as someone who looked for a job for over three years in an at will state. I've written the letter and sent it with a cover letter and resume...no response at ALL. NONE. And that was from a company who stated "Transgendered people [among others] encouraged to apply", and I've come out at interviews at companies who stated they were 'trans-friendly'. They mostly liked that I was 'gay'. They didn't know what to do when I was trans, and I didn't get hired.

I'm confused about this letter. You say, "I want to write a letter to HR" and "And probably after the interview"

So, I'm confused. You want to write a letter to HR. I get the impression based on the above that you want to write a letter before you've even interviewed with the company. Am I correct in that?

And then, am I correct in that you also plan on addressing it after you've interviewed? So, that would mean HR has two letters from you about being trans?

Have you ever sent a letter to HR telling them you were queer? Before you even interviewed? Did you ever send two letters to HR telling them you were queer?

At will does not mean that companies are allowed to just throw some things out the window. I mean, even in at will states, companies are not allowed to fire you for being a woman, being POC, being disabled, being Jewish, etc. Sure we all know they'll find another reason if they really want to fire you for that, but they're not 'allowed' to tell you, "You can't work here, because of your sex, religion, etc".

This is why you have to research your particular city/state/county ordinances. Many companies have no clue what city ordinances are in place. The more information YOU have, the better off you're going to be. You're going to have a much stronger chance of protecting yourself if you arm yourself with knowledge.

Personally, I've found interviewing during transition incredibly difficult. But that's just me. And the way I would handle it now has greatly changed from the way I've handled it in the past (partly because I've already done all the 'coming out' at interviews, and all it got me was laughed at, sideways looks, fearful looks, and uncomfortable awkwardness...it yielded no job).

I also get that you don't pass as male. I get that. And that makes it even harder. Personally, and this is completely based on experience, I would start telling yourself you DO pass, because you ARE a man...and I would dress and act like it in an interview. I mean, I don't know what you're planning on wearing to an interview, but I'd do a suit and tie. If YOU are in an interview, and YOU aren't acting the part, it's going to make everything weird. The interviewer is going to be looking for YOU for guidance on how to act. If you're waivering or uncertain, it's going to make the whole situation uncomfortable. If YOU don't 'believe' you're a man, no one else is going to believe you're a man.

Two/Three years ago, I was in exactly your same position, and an older wiser transguy gave me the same advice. I thought he was completely full of shit ("How can I go in there in a suit and tie when I don't pass?" is what I asked myself), and it really pissed me off. One thing I've found after more and more interviews is that yes, 'passing' was more about attitude than it was about T. I mean, if you're going to tell me you're a man, I would expect a man to show up in a suit and tie for a corporate interview. It's what the 'rule books' say a man wears to a corporate interview. If you're going to tell me you're a man, and you're going to show up in something less than a suit and tie, I'm going to think you're confused...which is going to confuse me. I'm also not going to give you the job, because you didn't show up in the proper attire, and if you can't show up for an interview in 'proper' attire, what's to say you'll show up for work in the 'proper attire'? Your confusion is going to make me confused, and I'm not going to know how to deal with you, and I'm not going to hire you, because I'm going to be uncomfortable. Sad but true. (I'm also not saying I agree with any of this, but it's the way it is in most of America).

Show up in a suit and tie, and you might be surprised how many people never look past that suit and tie and just read you as male for no other reason. Seriously, I have been incredibly mystified at times. People are lazy. I don't know what name you use on your resume, but if you're using your male name, and the company calls expecting a man, you're much better off if you don't 'throw them off'. When people get confused, they get scared, and when they get scared, they don't hire you.

It's binary, and it's complete bullshit, but it's corporate america and people like nice, neat packages. Again, it's complete bullshit, but it's the way it is.
And NO ONE is going to go out and educate themselves on trans issues just so you can have a job. I don't mean that in a harsh way, but it's true. It's a lot easier to just toss out your resume and find another one than it is for people to educate themselves and a whole company on trans issues.

Another reason I wouldn't say anything in an interview or before hand is because HR has to be mindful of covering the company's ass...they're NOT going to want to hire anyone they perceive as being a 'nuisance'. Contrary to popular belief, HR is NOT their for the benefit of the employees...HR is there to protect the company. When it comes down to you or the company, HR is going with the company. Transpeople have the potential to start a whirlwind of shit at companies...not only with health insurance, but also with coworkers and lawsuits. NO HR dept is going to take on a (what they perceive as) possible liability/lawsuit. And if you're already bombarding them with a letter (or two) (read: making an issue out it), it's going to be blindingly apparent to them that you're a possible liability on a number of fronts.

No one's going to educate themselves on trans issues if there's a 'normal' easy candidate available...and in this economy, there are plenty of cis candidates with whom no one has to navigate pronouns/bathrooms/health insurance/lawsuits/name-calling/etc.

You're a man. Walk in there like a man and get a job.


Dylan

P.S. I also like Koop's advice about interview for jobs you don't necessarily want before you go in for the interview you DO want. I wish I'd have thought of that when I was still looking for a job. It's a brilliant idea for anyone, but especially so in this instance.

Ill know more after tomorrow

This is so very true. Good advice.


Your whole post was spot on, Dylan. Good stuff.

“The city codes of Atlanta and Decatur, however, prohibit discrimination in employment based on gender identity and sexual orientation, and Dekalb County ordinances prohibit discrimination in public employment based on “non-merit factors,” which could be interpreted to include gender identity” (from GPAC’s GenderLaw Guide

http://www.megafamilyproject.org/informed/trans.html

Link for Mega project in Georgia

Today was my first injection

Thanks dudes,
For your responses and reps today

J

*two thumbs up*

Good luck with all of it, Parker.

Thank you.

FYI for American trans individuals: http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/...t-applications

This bodes well.

I totally feel you. I came out as trans 3 or 4 years ago, and I was scared too... The whole thing was so perminant. I literally only started transitioning in October, 2009.

1) my earliest trans memory was at three, I was taking a bath, and I guess I looked really sad. My mom asked what was wrong and I told her god had made a mistake, that I was suppose to be a boy. However, I always knew I was different, I was just never able to actually put my finger on what it was about me that was different. I guess I already had the answer at 3 years old and just never knew it. :)

2) I always knew I was different, and I had a lot of issues with gender roles. But I had no words. To my knowledge there was nothing to discribe me. I was just a wierd butch dyke. It didnt fit exactly who I was but it was the closest I could get. That was until college. I met a MTF in my community college GLBT group named Acosha. and she changed my life. her story was crude and hard to believe. she was thrown out of her home, and did back ally botox. but when she talked about how she felt I connected to her right away. It was how I felt, only opposite genders. I didnt like that. Im not gonna lie, I thought trans people were wierd and I didnt want to be like that. I tried not to. but then my social worker basically said there was no way around it, and i saw a senior gender specialist, and i guess i worked my way into a whole new community.

3) It was about a year after I met Acosha so around 18 years old. I told my mom first, and my mom blurted it out to my dad. my mom is good to get the word around the family. My dads family doesnt really talk about these things, and so we just never discussed it, but my moms family asked a whole lot of questions. I told my closest friends, and everyone was cool with it. not a single person abandoned me or disowned me- to my surprise.

bathroom issues
 

I think hes scared. I mean I was scared too, girlfriend at the time had to push me to use the guys bathroom. I started doing so, but only if it was empty and I had a switch blade on me. I've ease up a bit since the T and I also have a MANGO product called a Pack-N-Pee...

The reality is trans hatred is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) portion of hate crimes committed against the LGBT. Statistics show that when a hate crime is committed agaisnt the Trans is typically physical, and very often fatal. and we're not talking simple either... like decapatated, burned, beaten, stabbed forty time, dragged by a vehicle kinda deaths. now most often this happens to MTF transgenders (maybe because there is more of them, or because it is less socially accepted) You can read the names, country, and how they died on Trans Rememberance website. These hate-crime more often then not take place in gendered areas (bathrooms, lockerooms, etc.)

So for a FTM its far easier, in my opinion, to reason with females. Worst case senrio T makes it easier to fight off a female also. But there is less fear of rape and/or death in a female bathroom

Cam, I think I will have to disagree with you on this paragraph. I don't know if it is easier to "reason with females". I think like most people, if someone is open they will be easier to reason with (female, male or purple-people eater). Additionally, from what I have seen/heard most females, if a male is found in the bathroom will call on big <insert male figure> to come in and either attempt to enforce "gender bathroom mores" or drag the offending male out. Don't forget, as well, that some women can kick your ass. Just because you're a guy doesn't mean they are weak.

Lastly, the idea that there is less fear of rape and/or death in the female bathroom -- do you mean this for the FTM or the woman? I think I can understand it from an FTMs point of view but from a woman's point of view, based on the stuff that is happening here in America, there is this long standing idea that the bathroom is safe as long as it's all women. If a man's there, he's there only to rape/kill. And since, what seems to be a large segment of America, believes that MTFs are not women but men.. well, then them being there is to rape/kill or perv on kids.

I won't dispute your fear—it is after all, yours, but I must confess that I am far more comfortable in the men's room, than I am in the women's.

1) Yea I totally get that all the time. Actually, it's funny only because that seems to give people the idea that I'm a gay man.

2) I don't get this, but that could be that I only really hang with people who are lesbian/gay, people who knew me before my transition, and other social work majors. I'm very weary about who I'm hanging out with. (I can have some serisou anxiety)

I wonder if its just not accepting whats happening in being male and transiting..the comfort level may not be there yet.

Federal Transgender Rights Bill Advances in Canada (via JoeMyGod)
 

It may not seem possible to those of us who gaze longingly at Canada's progressive laws for LGBT citizens, but transgender folks are not explicitly protected by anti-discrimination legislation there. That may be about to change.

A private member’s bill seeking human-rights protection for transgender and transsexual Canadians passed second reading in the House of Commons on June 8. The third time might be the charm for Bill Siksay, the NDP MP for Burnaby-Douglas, who has tabled similar bills twice before, none of which have made it this far in the legislative process. “This is a big, historic step,” Siksay told the Straight in a phone interview from Ottawa. “It’s an indication that there is interest and support for this.” Bill C-389 seeks to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act and Criminal Code to add gender identity and gender expression as prohibited grounds for discrimination. Siksay, the NDP’s critic for gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender issues, said there wasn’t any “outright” opposition to the bill, which was supported by Liberal, NDP, and Bloc Québécois MPs.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservative government says the trans rights act is "redundant and that trans people are already protected under the grounds of sex and disability in the Canadian Human Rights Act." They also complain that the bill doesn't define gender identity and gender expression. The bill now moves to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights for "detailed consideration."

I agree with many things you've said here, but I disagree that most often hate crimes take place in gendered areas. This would mean most hate crimes against MTFs take place in women's restrooms and locker rooms, and I just don't buy that, because most hate crimes against trans-individuals (as I hate hate hate the terms 'The Trans' and 'transgenders') are not perpetrated by women.

Most hate crimes committed against the trans community are perpetrated by men against MTFs (and there's not more MTFs, the actual guesstimate is closer to 50/50) in public areas like on the street, or they were followed home, etc.

Also, I personally, don't find it any easier to "reason with females". I don't even really know what you mean there, honestly. I've always had the absolute worst time in women's restrooms, and I can't imagine ever going back in there. There's no 'reasoning' with anyone when you've scared them...especially when it comes to women being in fear of a man in the restroom. But I don't even know how I *would* 'reason' with a woman in the restroom that I *belong* there at this point. And if I *were* to end up in the women's restroom, I really wouldn't be 'fighting them off'...because I just don't belong there, and they have a very valid reason to protect themselves. But this also means that MTFs would have an easier time 'fighting off' women (if it were women committing most of the violent crimes against MTFs) in the restroom, being that MTFs have 'had all those years sharing their bodies with testosterone'. But as we all know, women aren't going to stand in the restroom and 'fight off' an intruder. Instead, they're going to go find a security guard, police officer, etc (as many of us here can attest to having had done to us when women think 'there's a man in the bathroom).

And again, I don't want to dispute your fear, because it's yours, but I wish I'd have started using the men's farrrrrrrrrr earlier than I did. If I'd had known how much less crap I was in for in the men's room, I'd have done it 20 years ago. I'm wayyyyyyyyyyy less apprehensive about using the men's room, because no one even looks at you. I've only had one experience where any man ever even bothered to look at me, and he was just a chatty old guy who sidled up to the urinal next to me and started carrying on about his day. Even when I didn't pass, men didn't say a word. For me, personally, I am MUCH less 'afraid' in the men's room. For ME, I DO think being able to use the urinal helps a lot with any apprehension.


My Thoughts,
Dylan

ETA: I find it incredibly privileged and just...gross...that an FTM would use the women's restroom if they pass and live as male.

P.P.S. I also find it attention seeking

I've been using the men's bathroom for about 9 years now. And it was mostly because of the bad reactions I received in the women's bathroom. I was getting hassled too much, confronted, grabbed, had security called on me (I was in line for the bathroom and the security guard reached and grabbed for me to pull me out of line). I don't have problems in the men's bathroom. Men don't make eye contact. It took me a lot of years to get the nerve up to use the men's bathroom because I thought I would have problems in there and get hurt. Once I finally got the nerve up and learned that men don't even look up, then I started using the men's room exclusively.

I think women are very protective of the bathroom space. As Melissa says, its more of an event in there. Women are talking, changing their kid's diapers, taking their kid's to the bathroom, putting on make up, brushing hair, checking clothes.

Men just pee and leave. I don't use the urinals. Every men's room has a stall with a door and a lock.

Rufus

Originally Posted by Dylan
I have a question for the transguys. I'm NOT asking anyone but transguys.

I'd like to know what y'all think about a transguy who is read as male, who wants to be read as male, who has had top surgery, and who is on hormones...but yet uses the women's restroom (on occasion), and who gets ticked off when women in the restroom get upset that he's in there.


Thanks,
Dylan

I couldn't find the original post, so I just had to copy and paste the question.
To be quite honest, it's beyond me why any trans male (particularly that far into transition) would want to use the women's restroom. It defeats the purpose of everything he is doing if you ask me.
It actually frustrates me and is very disrespectful. Unless he feels he has some sense of privilege, that on it's own is very concerning.

Not to mention, why in the hell would you look to create a problem like that?
You can be damn sure those women in the restroom will not like him being there. UNDERSTANDABLY
It's beyond me.

I have to say I think I used a woman's restroom once out of desperation. We were at a gay bar and the men's bathroom had a urinal and a stall without a door. I wasn't equipped to pee standing up so I used the woman's. Fortunately I was still on the cusp at the time of passing and I also just used it way before the night got started and just made sure I didn't have to pee til we wer out of there.

Another time I was somewhere and the men's was out of order and I really had to go ... but just went and looked for another one. At this pt I just wouldn't be comfortable using the woman's no matter what unless it is a single locked door and the men's is broken and I really really really have to go.

Now I've also learned how to pee sitting down in a matter that no one would be the wiser. Some of the stalls i frequent don't lock well so I have learned how to sit so no one can tell. I need to come up with a new stp .... I have one piece ... just need to get the medical tubing next ... then figure out the best way to contrive the thingy. Right now I'm just lazy ... I drive a lot so try to get a 2fer when I can.

I think id have to have more than peach fuzz to use the men;s room.

General Question
 

Hey Everyone!

I have a question; and it may be a little silly.

So, I never (and I mean never) went to Gynaecolist. Once, before I even knew I was trans, I had a breast exam done by a family doctor, who also went to make sure all the parts down below were still in working condition. Fortunately I had my period and that exam never took place.

Very lately I've been thinking/ worring that maybe I should see one. I mean I am a sexually active trans-guy. I rarely use any kind of protection. If for nothing else, I should be seeing someone for a base exam.

1) If you're pre-op (top and bottom) do you still need to see a doctor for your genital regions.
2)If so how often are you suppose to go? Do you still have to get like anual mamograms
3)What kind of doctor are you suppose to see? (I mean I feel like they'll totally laugh at me if I walk into an OBGYN's office)

Good Point! :)