|
Not interested. Thanks but I've had my say. I will not be pulled back in.
|
sorry, i was away for the last two days w/no internet or i would have jumped in...i'm super grateful for folks' posts, especially snow, corkey, and chino. snow already said all there is to be said on the subject of education. apparently it needs repeating, though.
i just wanted to address, re: "being a resource" - i like being a resource for people. i love teaching (and for that matter learning). i love being able to give people information and links. i also take on that role professionally a lot when doing accessibility work - coordinating people and resources. but too often women, esp poc, and indigenous folks are expected to "be resources" - well, you know what happens to resources? resources get USED UP and commodified and misused and appropriated and stolen and wasted. particularly used up. i'm a human being, not a resource. in my opinion at least as an indigenous woman who's been stuck in the resource position (and sometimes chosen it, too), expecting people - especially marginalized folks - to be a resource is dehumanizing. (in addition to the learning issues.) because not only do we have to be a resource for the new white lesbian girls but we also have to be experts on how to assimilate to white culture without completely being destroyed (and the experts on everything white culture in general), plus, you know, have lives and stuff too. |
What I have learned as a white person is that sometimes it is painful and hurtful for people of color to hear white people process their questions and feelings. That is the privilege we have. So it is helpful for us to read or talk to other white people who might know more than we do. Asking questions is fine but sometimes we have to understand that people might not want to answer. That is their right.
I totally understand what you are saying about having trouble learning that way. I also have a very difficult time understanding things in writing. I have to read things over and over to understand. I do understand though that it is not other's responsibility to help me deal with my different way of learning. Quote:
|
I tried to read this whole thread, but I just cannot and do not want to wade through it any further than I did.
This thread is a perfect example of the cannibalization that goes on in our community. It's like the operation was a success, but the patient died. What the hell happened to "Sisterhood is Powerful"? Was the revolution a success, yet the sisterhood died? Bleh. |
the "sisterhood" hasn't often been a place of power and safety and community for indigenous women and women of color. sometimes it's come at our expense. i for one thought the fact that snow got called a bully again for adding to the conversation by sharing what it's like for her to deal with racism on a daily basis again was pretty cannibalizing.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
to me, the resource dynamic is extremely problematic. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
I'm interested in what you're saying. If you feel like it, could you possibly elaborate? Thanks. |
There have been many "studs" throughout history that are both female and male who have "planted their seeds" in others spiritually, intellectually, politically, artistically, physically, etc. For example, Jesus was a "stud" imo, who defied the pharisees, and has sired many spiritual giants. But, many do not have the capablities of the orginal "stud", who try to emulate them like many do.,which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It was later that the oringinal teaching was exploited. But then their idealogies or "seeds" continue, until another one is "born" , to give birth to, hopefully, a better world of people.
|
Quote:
Hi, Glenn. Thanks for your patience. I sort of understand the first part of what you wrote, and that's a new one for me, your take on Jesus. The part I bolded though, completely lost me. Please don't feel compelled to explain any further but if you do, I would read with interest. |
Quote:
I do agree some people don't learn best by reading - my more handsome half certainly doesn't - what I will say is that a lot of information on a wide variety of subjects is available for free on video, audio and alternative formats for learning. Being able to discern a video etc. is of merit is fairly easy. In my experience "I don't learn by reading" (while it may be true) is an excuse that skirts around the fact that aishah, Snow and others have the confidence to say (more than once) out loud that they aren't the bottomless well of cultural knowledge society expects them to be. I'm not playing holier than thou; cultural competency is a difficult topic. For me part of unpacking white privilege is to be able to listen, see, read, hear what POC have to say without the "but" that is so common to contemporary culture. |
Exactly. Which is why I posted that. No one is responsible for how I learn. When I first was told, quite clearly, that my questions were hurtful I took the suggestion to watch Tim Wise. Then I got his books and then I went to see him speak in person. That helped me enormously. That was a space where my questions and fumblings were ok.
Quote:
|
because you're white.
Are you saying that you're NOT WHITE?
Quote:
|
OK another white person talking about her impressions of stud. Seems kinda weird and off-putting to be doing this. But here goes.
Where I used to live, the studs closer in age to me would often have manicured nails or earrings or do their hair in ways that were more feminine. But I'd also seem them wearing men's suits and hats. They tended to dress more like that when they were going out with their girlfriends. In my generation, most of the studs were very comfortable presenting themselves as masculine and feminine at the same time, sometimes more one than the other depending on the day. Where I lived and worked for a few years -- in CA -- it seemed to me that the younger women more consistently presented as masculine. However, most of them used names or nicknames that ID'd them as female and used female pronouns. I am not sure that this has ANYTHING to do with the stud ID. I think it has more to do with the fact that many African Americans do butch or stud differently. This is also from back in the day. My experience and from friends who have talked to me about it is that it was disrespectful for a stud not to be treated as the dominant partner in public, but that in private, whatever works in your bed or relationship is fine. I am talking outside of a leather context. Stud does feel different to me, but not less or more masculine. Just different. It feels -- and this is me, me, me -- like people have had less of a struggle with it as an ID. I wonder if that is because it was more accepted and known among straight and gay African American people than butch is among gay and straight white people. I don't know. African Americans traditionally have polled as against gay marriage etc. But my impression is that there is a certain lack of surprise bordering on tolerance re lesbian relationships. Gay male relationships get more criticism, as always. |
One of my former students was a self-ID'd stud. Her girlfriend was a femme. She had had previous girlfriends -- all straight. She was the first woman each had been with. Anyway, my student's mind was a little blown by the femme girlfriend. Femmes were different from straight girls, she told me (not knowing that she was talking to a femme. lol). Anyway, as she described it, the femme girlfriend was almost too confident. She knew what she wanted in and out of bed, and was, in general, a proud lesbian. They stayed together, however. I think the student just had to adjust to the ways of the new girlfriend.
Anyway, to this student -- before she met her femme girlfriend -- lesbians were studs. From her point of view, the women they fucked were NOT by definition lesbian. They were most often not. They were straight or possibly bisexual. They were girls who couldn't resist the charms of a stud lover. I had another student, well before the other's time, who ID'd as bisexual She is feminine and at that time was a pimp. She turned her girlfriends out. She took care of them when they got arrested or pregnant, but she was a pimp. Her theory was that feminine women slept with other women because women know how to sexually please other women. In her mind, if you presented as feminine, you were probably not a lesbian. Studs were lesbians. Feminine women might be bisexual, as she was, but were more likely straight and just liked sex with women because men were inept by comparison. I have no idea how common these attitudes are among young African American women in Richmond or anywhere else. But talk about femme invisibility. |
Quote:
|
Just wanted to add I think this thread had some purpose until that ridiculous video was added - seriously cannot understand what relevance the ramblings of a random student had to the original thread and the posters intent on adding it?
|
Quote:
As icky as it was to see it, there is that door of knowledge to pull from it...in that it is a sobering image of the vast difference in perspectives on Studs and the like, and this one happened upon us as one that a White person took the time to record and share. To Me, even the many degrees of ignorance should be a part of ones bank of knowledge. When I see shit like that, it reminds me there is still much to be taught...and I have personally fancied the thought how wondrous it would be if there were more panel discussions available to folks, both inter-generational and interracial. :thinking: Now I've rambled. Big surprise. :| :coffee: :daywalker: |
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:19 PM. |
ButchFemmePlanet.com
All information copyright of BFP 2018