My thoughts on the word Lady
 

I love this conversation that is taking place, I happen to use "Lady" in my Leather because I find it funny, dirty, and it's a sort of empowerment for me to wear it and use it in my kink....


I use *Lady* in particular because it's convenient for me, now what really pisses me off as a Femme is when someone wants to super impose certain kinds of *behaviors* that are deemed to be *ladylike*... I personally do not like being forced into a peg, or design to fit someone's fucking ego boost.


You want someone with good manners, empathy, or anything else that you (general you) fancy tagging as *lady like*, then good on you. That expectation and peg holing should be kept to your (general) consensual dynamic be it whatever it is. WHAT should not be happening is that certain behaviors dictate how all women/femmes/femalebodied persons *should* act, talk or be like....


For *me* that's oppressing, sexist, non consensual and it perpetuates that women.femme.femalebodied persons are only here to make it better for all those folks (general) that like to put women.femme.femalebodied person into boxes that we do not fit into...


So I use Lady, because when I use Sir, Master, Owner it seems to be a disturbing factor in people, most people though get it, that my ownership of Lady is like my ownership of baby girl, it's on my damn terms, on it's done my way, it it fits no one's standard definition of either, I own my Femme that was as well, it's either my way or it's not for me....


It hasn't kept me from having a good time for 44.5 years, matter of fact it keeps me quite busy and occupied in every way.

*curtsy*


P.S.

To clarify about my baby girl, I'd like to be transparent and say she's about 16.5 a Lolita and pretty much runs it her way as well... Happy New Year:vigil:

Actually, Lady in leather concept I get. Just like I get Sir or Lord. Both are titles of ownership (Sir &Dame then next hierarchically is Lord & Lady, etc. for those who did not know, Lady trumps a Sir in postion). If I do that, if I'm in my Domme headspace, I prefer "your Grace" by bottoms and subs and slaves in conversation and "Countess" by tops, dom/me etc. if we want to get technical hahahaha.

Though I did get called Dame Baps by smart ass mates in London, which I don't mind at all. Smart ass/taking the piss is always acceptable.

But I do not with those terms to be used in my daily life. It has connotations of behaviour and privilege I don't agree with. If someone wants me to play Lady to their abused Lady's Maid, sure. Or upstart gentleman's valet, sure. But it stays there. I don't bring it out of that context.

I'm too much of a socialist. I like that Canada does not allow Canadians to receive Titles. We kept Conrad black out that way, at least for a while. HA!

The day that when asked "what's the opposite of a lady?" Can be answered with "I'm not sure what that means. I don't understand" will be the day I don't mind it's use applied to me and the day I stop getting mildly irritated with the way that's used in butch-femme communities.

But, I'm not a femme. So I no longer have to have that discussion. I just have to shrug and say "I'm not a femme" and walk on whatever side of the fucking pavement I feel like and swear and eat with my fingers and take my stockings off in the street cause they keep falling down (something I'm quite good at. Cause the shitty stockings in this country have me appalled. I miss Marks and Sparks stay ups. I'm great at sliding off my stockings while walking with someone without much fuss. It's like taking your bra off without taking off your shirt. It can be done smoothly with practice). I find this also seperates those who laugh from those who are horrified or embarrassed.

Blah blah de blah. I'm starting to bore myself a bit. I'm sure I'm putting others into a coma.

Jumping off her...
 

HB, I heart you because like you, I am just Snow, a Femme that regardless of what someone says I have to fit into as far as what Femme should be I never have and never will. When I read you I hear you, and I feel you because at times I have wanted to strip myself of Femme because I looked upon my person and NOTHING matched to the cookie cutter misconception of Femme, because it's gender for*me* I can't strip it off, it won't go nowhere, it futile and destructive for *me*..


Just cause I can piss standing up, doesn't mean I not what I choose and have fought hard accept, I am glad you are bringing it up and no, it's not boring it needs to be talked about, because it's important especially when we date, because I can't tell you how many damn times I have lost my mental hard on from having someone have an expectation of how I should behave, it softens my cock, it shuts my brain off and it makes me want to be sadistic and not the good kind of sadistic.

Feminine presentation does not dictate how far I can spit a loogey of I want or how I shouldn't cause that's not "lady like"


Fuck that noise!


So with that said, when dating, it would be best not to date women.femme.femalebodied folk who do not fit your image of what that should be and if someone starts that shit, ask for the check, shake their hand, go get your nails done and go have fun, eventually even if it's just for a fun fuck, you're gonna run into someone, who appreciates the creature you are....


Thanks for always pulling back the curtain, I am glad someone does!

Aw. Snows. You really are a perfect sweetheart. I'd so shag you. Or be shagged or however that would work for you. Hahaha. I'd give you the warmest hug ever if you were in the room.

I think for now with my level of fed up ness I'm just going to pass on the ID just for now and stick with Dolly Dyke. My lack of seeing people like me, which wasn't the case in the UK, sort of has me at the end of my previously femme rope. I get tired of "you're femme? Where's your handbag hahaha" by butches and having to say things like "up your ass. With your head."

I understand femme as gender. Completely. It's pretty much the way I see it which makes me rip my eye balls out when people start talking about femmes as being ladies. Not ladies = disgusting and improper and not femme

If we take that logic and apply it to another gender, let's say butch... Because they aren't feminine, butches aren't women. And we all know that's not true. Look at butches. There's a fucktruck full of women butches around.

So I hear you. And I'll fight your femme corner. But presently, I just don't have the energy for explaining to hurt egos:

why femme doesn't mean all the prescribed behaviour stuff to someone who keeps moving to the outside of the pavement when I'm trying to look at stuff,

thinking that I should be wrapped in cotton and saved

is horrified when I'm "vulgar"

thinks glancing noticeably at my tits during a date is horrid and disrespectful to my delicate femininity

that if I should be the princess of centre of the universe while around (instead of an equal and a friend)

kissed chastely on the cheek on the second date. Maybe (another reason why I don't date...)

When I explain to them how much I find that stuff really not me, it upsets me and I feel "othered" by it (distanced form them, made to feel different, like I'm being treated like a romantic unit by prescribed rules instead of recognized as the individual I am, with individual wants and likes) then I'm:

hurting their ego
not a lady because that is how you treat ladies
if she doesn't like it that way then she is not really very femme
she's cruel
she's a big meanie
I was only trying to show her I think she's a special jewel to be worshiped [again, still not getting it....]
she just wants to use me like a dildo if she wants sex
she's indiscriminate and has a dirty vagina (I've actually HEARD these things said to me, and many more, in the year I've been home.... )

All these rules make me dispair. I'm also not used to them anymore. They weren't there for 10 years. I find them restrictive and chafing. It's like putting a bra on that you didn't have for 10 years and find it really doesn't fit.

And everyone around is talks like it's the best fitting bra in the world and you wonder if your tits are freaky or what.

I'll keep the femme one that fit in the UK. I think too many people in the community on this side of the Atlantic, especially south of the boarder, have a different understanding of the word for it to not be a royal pain in the fucking arse to say I'm femme and not have it mean all these things I find torturous. I get that many girls love to be treated that way. Bravo. Fine. I'm just not one of you. And they out number me by far, it appears, or people wouldn't be trying to hard to shove me into that mode of behaviour.

I have to constantly disclaimer "femme" to others. IN my community. I actually have to do more now to those IN rather than out. I think that's sort of telling to me, for my comfort levels. So I think, for now, when I talk to anyone from North America, I'll just use another word. It saves me a lot of grief of explanation.

But to those that get me? Yeah ;)

And can I just say, I've re-read my post and I'm waiting for Daktari to come in and say something about my freaky tits.


Ha you dirty bugger. Scooped you!

Woof!
 

I think Dolly Dyke is lovely and so divine! I can almost taste it~

You know, Snows, I'm kind of tempted to make EVERYONE call me Dame Freaky Tits. The whole thing. They can't shorten it to DFT. They have to say the word tits. To a girl. And call them freaky.

Heh
 

I support your temptations and your tits!

Now that I've fully windbagged myself out with belly ranting... I have no retort.

:grindevil:

:raspberry:







ps. Apologies for stepping into a femme zone thread. My excuse is that is was just too irresistable :cheesy:

wow I wish some of you were nearby to take me on a date!

I don't think it takes money, although I certainly appreciate that gesture when it is shown. For me it is way more important that my Butch date is showered, dressed nice and pays attention to me, just as I will be for hyr... I put lots of efforts into being beautiful on dates... I would hope my Butch date would too... I enjoy if my Butch enjoys feeling proud to have me on hyr arm and show me off a little... it makes me feel good. But of course I don't want to be treated just like arm candy... I want to know my Butch respects my mind too cos I have a quick and fierce one...
I am old fashioned... I want doors and chairs held for me... I want to feel protected... but a date doesn't have to be fancy. It's more important to me to be treated well and have some great, fun conversation... if you're strapped for cash, take me to a beautiful park and let's sit down on a rug and enjoy watching the world go by... if you offer to rub my feet or shoulders that is about the best kind of moment a date could have lol! Just show me that you care, that you have put in effort and that you think I am all that. I am all about old school Butch/femme dynamics but that doesn't have to be all about spending heaps of money! The little things... pomaded hair, snappy dressing, beautiful manners... those are the most important things to make a girl feel good and appreciated.

right on honeybarbara, femme is so many things and manifests in so many ways and all are legit. thanks for saying it so tough!

Good point.

*gulp* and *fans self*

I like this thread! Can I hang out here? :)

Wish I had freaky tits. Unfortunately my tits are well behaved and polite with wholesome interests *sigh* typical my luck.

I'd much rather have wholesome anything. I might get a date :(

Trust me, wholesomness will not get you any dates, I can vouch for that!

They are both tasty.

<--- likes the all-in-one variety

to be honest, I don't even know what wholesome actually means. As far as I understand, wholesome = whole wheat bread and home baked.

I haven't dated very much, but for me I like some of the old fashioned stuff, like doors being held open for me. It's just nice. I like, too, when I can tell that the date is a little bit of a special occasion for both of us. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, but just that someone bothered to look a little extra nice, similar little things, makes me feel a little special.

Personally, I'm broke a whole lot of the time, so I definitely don't mind doing free/inexpensive stuff on dates. I usually plan to pay my own way on everything, unless for some reason it's really important to the other person to pay for the date, in which case I don't have a strong enough opinion on the subject for it to conflict. So inexpensive options make me happy. Mostly I think dates are for spending time with the other person, a getting-to-know-you time or kind of an arranged "let's focus on each other" time. One of my favorite dates for fun-factor was a picnic (the same stuff I was making for dinner anyway, just packed up) at the park with travel Scrabble. They have free concerts once a week all summer at that park, and that's a really nice date, too.

I will say, I've been picked up one or two times for dates when I had to spend five minutes clearing stuff off the passenger seat of their vehicle so that I would have a place to sit, or with the footspace all full of fast food cups and stuff. That I didn't like!

The last man I dated before I sorted out that I wasn't actually straight used to bring me little trinkets when he came to see me, which was kind of neat. Nothing fancy usually - a flower he'd picked on the way over, or a stuffed animal he'd won out of a claw machine. (He was remarkably good at those games, so it never cost him more than a dollar.) But nobody had ever done that, so it just felt incredibly sweet to me. He was a really good date in general - he just treated me beautifully. If I were any kind of straight I'd probably be married to him by now, the sweetheart.

Like I said before, I haven't dated a whole lot, so really I don't have a lot of experience to point me toward anything concrete. But basically what it boils down to is that I want to be treated respectfully and like I'm special to them, that our time together is special to them.

Lol. I have told this before, but it became a pet peeve. I have had folks pick me up and then go to the ATM and get gas, etc. I get it if you had a particularly busy day -- and you explain that -- or if you've been together a while. But for it to be early on in dating and for the person to not do all those things first . . . red flag. I am serious. DO NOT BORE ME. Kiss of death.

I was on a first date with a butch who had to make a stop for something work related. I waited for 45 minutes. I didn't have a book or anything because who knew? Then she talked about her ex. No second date.

I absolutely will not have my time wasted like that. To me that is so disrespectful. I don't do it to others, whether they are dates or friends or even acquaintances. If I am going to transport someone in my car, I have already put gas in the car and have gone to the ATM.

While I expect everyone to be clean, I don't even notice how people are dressed unless it's super sexy. I could not care less. My colleague said to me yesterday about a student who had just left, "If you had a daughter, would you let her walk out of the house like that?" Honestly, I couldn't even remember what the student had been wearing. I just don't care.

Edited to add: Oh and know how to get where you are going or have GPS or whatever. We can all get lost, but at least have written down the directions or something. I have had a couple of people not know how to get back on the interstate after we have gone somewhere new to both of us. I get lost easily, but I prepare. Anyway, things that are careless and cause me to be bored -- done and done. Maybe it's cruel, but I effing hate to be bored.

I wish I liked dating.

I am simple
 

I have never been on an official date... but here are some guidelines.
1.Be clean
2. Be you
3. Brownie points if you can get the door...

I am the kind of girl who fantasizes about slow dancing in the middle of nowhere with nothing but the car radio music. Maybe a nice picnic under the stars? Heck, I wouldn't even mind going on a hike for the first date (just give a warning to wear walking shoes)
I don't know why it has to be so hard. I just want to be treated with respect. I expect that if we are on a date you would be interested in me, so act like it. An occasional compliment goes a long way.
I think as a rule if you are the one that asked me on a date you should have thought about what you wanted to do. I am pretty open to trying new things, but if you want to take me somewhere to eat you should at least have an idea of what kind of foods I can't stand. For instance, taking me to a sushi bar would be problematic.
so yeah 4. Be prepared
:) I don't need flowers, but they are a sweet touch. I just need your honest presence and your willingness to show me who YOU are.

best and worst date
 

Best date I had was going for hot dogs and knishes at katz's deli in NYC. I think it took my butch daddy a while to understand he didn't have to do the fancy dinner/candlelight/hearts and flowers thing. Just laughing and talking over some simple shared food is glorious. The most important thing is that we're spending relaxed time together. I mean...I love that he buys me expensive perfume too, don't get me wrong!! ; )

Worst date? My ex had a real knack of making me cry whenever we went out for dinner (hence EX). But one time we went to a pub, and they went to get us drinks at the bar....and came back to the table empty handed- they had been carded at the bar (they were 39 at the time but has a real baby face and was often mistaken for a teenage boy) 'Old lady' over here had to go to the bar and prove my butch girlfriend was actually not my underage son. SERIOUSLY.

Underage son
 

Good lord, lol that tickled me. Though I am sorry it was such a crummy date.

Way late since you posted this, but here are my ideas anyway...lol...It's definitely different for everyone, and I think you get into trouble if you fall into this "one size fits all" dating idea. Good hygiene and a clean vehicle and house are fundamental and should be kind of a given, regardless of the interaction. But when you say, "I'm going to treat her like a lady", or "I'm going to open your doors", etc, that's probably not going to be a problem in general, but not everyone appreciates those things. I, for example, am not romantic. Romance makes me uncomfortable and on edge. Open my doors, profer your arm, but if it's early in our dating history, I'd rather not have a gift from you. It makes the playing field uneven and I don't like that. I don't care where we go to eat (as long as there's something besides seafood - allergic...lmao), or what we may choose to do, I'll diplomatically (usually - unless i really hate it, then i'll generally be charming about it but not so diplomatic...lol) tell you i wasn't fond of whatever it was. For me, I won't be judging on those things. I won't be counting how many times you said fuck or if you spread your napkin just so in your lap. I'll be gauging the sound of your voice and the way you speak to me. I'll be remembering how much I laughed and how we dealt with the awkwardness that will always accompany early dates. I'll think about how often you touched me and how much you used your eyes and mouth to flirt with me. I won't care if you call me the next day or text me that very same night, but will assume we were an ember not a spark if it takes a week. I will remember the effort you made to get to know me and how easy you made it for me to get to know you. I'll remember how you deal with my unfortuantely smart ass mouth and if your humor meshes with my perverse one. Ultimately, I won't remember trappings and gentile manners, but I'll remember how genuine you are. I'll judge you not by what you do for me, but how real you are with me. These things are what matter to me and the women like me. This ended up long af, sorry...lmao...but here you go anyway...lol

I have probably answered this before, but my needs have changed over the years so......

Treat me like I am the most important person in the world, and make me feel like there is no place you would rather be than out with me.

Yes, thats pretty much it......and I in turn will do the same to you.

Daisy :bouquet:

Friday Night
 

Like a slut....

(f)

How about.....

Staying at one or another's home watching a movie?

Buying a 6 pack and some nacho chips?

Actually listening to what we say?

Sitting on the beach (fried dough or beach pizza would be good too)

Coffee house?

Foliage ride (if available in your area) with a stop at little shops?

It is so easy but, for whatever reason, we feel like we have to have reservations at the best place in town in order to impress or be impressed.

I met someone years ago. We went to a coffee shop. She has an actual list of questions (she was cautious) and I went on a second and third and fourth, etc date with her.

My worst relationship ever was with someone who spent a boatload of money but wasn't nice in any other way.

There are so many fun things that are free or, at least , very inexpensive.

I know myself that, if someone asked me out and we went to the beach (with crackers and a 6 pack) I would love it.

Just sayin

WOOF.

That's only happened a few times and the sex after the date was mind bending (not the first date, we'd slept together before)

Sooooooo miss it.

Ok, I looked it up.

The definition is:



If we are talking about conventionally moral in a white middle american kind of way (which is traditionally where it is used) then not in a billion years.
I'm ethical, not moral. Moral is the differentiation of action and thought between propper and impropper and has a religious/spiritual beliefs system behind it. Moral does not need reasoning and it's about everything being applied cross the board.

Ethical - being in accordance to the standards of practice within a system. Either within a group of people or within a scope of profession or culture. There is reasoning to why something is ethical or not. The same action might be ethical in this instance, but may not be ethical in that instance.


I do not consider myself moral. I'm ethical.
Ergo, I can't be wholesome.
Hey ho.

I love reading this thread and everyone's answers, but here's the thing with me . . .

if I have to tell you how I want to be treated on a date, then I'm probably on the wrong date.

Boom!
 

ETHICAL SLUT

*twirl"

If you please, please don't put your phone on the table at dinner..put it on silent (in your pocket), and short of an emergency, do not interrupt our conversation to answer it.

what is this "date" thing you speak of...?


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