I feel neglectful in not posting here sooner because I think this thread is important for so many reasons.

First, it's a safe space for fat BFP folks to discuss body issues and health without judgment and condemnation.

Second, it correctly points out how dieting and weight loss is used in our culture to attack women and hurt their self-esteem--AKA Fat is a Feminist Issue!

Third, it separates the often tangled threads of weight, dieting, exercise, healthy eating and other health issues.

It is very important for people to work on their health needs, whether that's more physical activity or getting chemicals out of our food and drinks. One thing I've done is to eliminate any artificial sweeteners from my diet because I think they have an adverse affect on my health. I have a "harm reduction" attitude toward meat, only eating it at restaurants or parties, but not at home for the most part. I also try as much as possible to eat whole grains.

None of this is about weight.

To be fat positive doesn't mean one never wants to lose weight or isn't trying to do so. It means that one is striving to be healthy in whatever way makes sense given our individual health needs and issues.

I hope BFP becomes more fat accepting and sees that as part of the feminist politics that are so importantly expressed in many other areas of the site. It would be sad to see folks here caving into patriarchal values on this topic while insisting on feminist perspectives everywhere else.

BBinNYC

being fat positive doesnt mean we cant make decisions to live longer and healthier. I have customers who come into my store every day who are in TOPS, Weight Watchers and have undergone bariatric surgery. The love that I love who they are RIGHT NOW. I dont care what size or number they are. What I want for them, is to make good choices about everything in their life. If they are ok at a size 26, then I support them. If their blood pressure go sky rocketing or they develop diabetes and need to diet, I support them. If they want to throw their food up to lose weight, no, I dont support this but I support THEM and will help them find healthier alternatives if their need is to lose weight but I will insist that they are ok as person no matter what numbers accompany them NOW.

My shop is doing very well. I have been so busy with the shop, and the house that I have not had time for much threading. My life has changed because of this shop. My customers fill my life. When I look back just a year ago, I am amazed at the huge impact this shop has made in my life.

I met the most wonderful woman today at my shop. She was in her late 70s. I have seating arrangements in the front and back of my store for people to rest and socialize. I was sitting at the front one, and she came to join me. She was some kind of whippersnapper, for sure! LOL. She was asking me about my tattoos and told me she was planning on getting one. Her children didnt want her to, but (as she pointed to her five earrings in one ear) she said they didnt want her to pierce her ears either but she did anyway. We sat for quite some time and this rebel amused me. I told her I wanted to be just like her in a few years. She smiled that inward amazon kinda smile and winked at me.

Its amazing how transformed I am day by day...

I decided to drop weight watchers. I allready know what I need to do with my food, Im done (just for today) for feeling guilty about not writing it down, for any ounce of guilt over what I eat. The adverage weight loss for a WW memeber is 12 pounds a year. Seriously. I am done with paying 600 a year with the likelyhood that I will loose 12 pounds.
Today Im tired of the weight of the GUILT over what Im not doing, or am doing, in order to get more social milage out of my body.
I quit the gym I dont go to as well. Thats another savings of 550 a year.

Maybe I will buy a kayack or some other thing I actually enjoy with that money next year. Hopefully it wont be on some gimmick to help me lie to myself that I am making changes.
I either am, or am not. Every single damn day. And right now I dont need a group membership to know it.

Funny, when I looked at a recent picture, full body one, from last weekend I thought DAMN I look GOOD! And I am almost the heaviest I have ever been, yet I feel better than I have in a long time.

I know that there are many many people who feel that gyms and WW have made all the difference in the world for them, and Im so happy they have that.

For right now, I am not buying or drinking the Koolaide cause its just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Just for today Im keeping it simple, and letting the guilt go. It may not mean I lose much weight, but I sure as heck feel lighter.

Love the thread!

I am thrilled to see posts coming in about loving ourselves no matter what numbers we own. Age, poundage, dress size, etc. does not equal self worth.

Pearls, I also applaud your idea of getting a kayak with your money rather than spend it on the skinny industry. Spend it on something you have a passion for, to make you active.

The 'slutty' fat girl
 

This may be a sensitive/triggering topic for some of you, and if it is, I apologize in advance.

How many of you have spent most of your lives trying to run away from the "slutty fat girl" stereotype? I know I have.

I've had partners - mostly male, but some female too - who only hit me up because they were under the assumption that because I'm fat, that I'm easier to get into bed. To counter that, I became rigid about my body and relationship boundaries, and convinced myself somewhere along the way that I only did real relationships, not one-two-or three night stands.

Now that I'm a little older and a little wiser, and now that I'm finding my relationship prospects dimming as I get older, I'm starting to challenge my beliefs. I think mutual fun sexytimes are beneficial to the people involved, regardless of how long those times last. I'm at the point in my life where if a relationship came along, great, but I don't want to block a sweet, good time if she sweeps me off my feet!

What about you? What sort of negative ideas around fat and sexuality are you holding on to and how are you letting them go?

This may be controversial too but I don't like the idea that it's creepy for certain people to prefer fat girls. Why can't that be sexy and even feminist to have a preference that's outside of the patriarchal mainstream? I'm tired of it being thought of as perverse, creepy, nerdy, sick, objectifying, and "just as bad." Similarly, I use the title "BBW," and I know a lot of people apply the same descriptions to that term. However, I take it for what it is, a big beautiful woman. To me it conveys that I'm big while also conveying that I'm a confident woman, one who aims to embrace my body. I think that when people are more attracted to fat bodies that it usually comes from one's unconscious psychological life experience all the way back from childhood (Disclaimer: I'm a therapist.). Black men are much more accepting/attracted to my body, and I wonder is it because they have mamas they love who are big and confident too. I like to go to Craigslist and put in a search for "BBW" in the title (must be in the title, because if it's the whole ad, it will be because of a "no BBWs" clause written at the end of the ad). I like to read the descriptions of people craving a fat woman for a relationship or sex or whatever. It's sexy to me, and I don't think I have to feel that I'm gross for feeling that way.

I really like what BB and BBW and others here are promoting and that's the idea that we can be positively healthy in the ideas we hold about what the term Fat means and to borrow the term BB used: not cave into social stereotypes built around what it means to be fat.

I really like how Spirit Dancer brought up the idea that often people who are fat are not valued in our culture and society and that people seem to trend toward the idea that people who are fat have no life, no romantic prospects in their past, present or future. And, I also like what BBW said about how creepy it is that being fat is not throught of in terms of being a feminist stance or sheer sexiness.

I've lost a considerable amount of weight over the past six months, due to a very hectic on-the-run job I used to have, which demanded that I keep running even when I didn't feel like I could run another step of the way.

Does that mean I'm skinny, since I lost that much weight? No.

I'm built like a tank: In other words, no matter how weight I might like to lose, I will always appear on the larger side of the weight spectrum just because of my height (I am nearly 5' 10" -barefoot) and because of the density of my bone structure, which is pervasively German: with a twist of this and that elsewhere. :)

I felt sexy when I was 60 pounds heavier, but I still rock this body of mine even though I'm sixty pounds lighter. I like it when individuals in our community can come together with a feminist attitude and feel super about who we are - not matter what we look like or how heavy we are.

Sending big love to all of you,
:stillheart:

Right, I see where you're coming from nycfembbw, but I'm not talking about preferences. I'm talking about the kind of people who don't want to date you in daylight, who deny they know you if they see you out while they're with their friends, who make cutting, negative comments about fat women in public, but who ask you for your number when nobody else is looking.

I hope with all my might that I can find a butch in this town that prefers my larger body, but until that happens, I'll just keep wishing. :)

Yes, I've been there too. Less so now that most of my friends are partnered/coupled, but I've had it happen. I'm usually happy to see my friends regardless of their motivations, but this does sting a little.

from another book...
 

I had so many passages marked in my copy of this book. I just hate I lost it during a move. :(

I totally get what you are saying, lettertodaddy and agree with you. My post wasn't in response to what you posted about the "slutty" fat girl. It was in response to your question at the end of your post:

"What about you? What sort of negative ideas around fat and sexuality are you holding on to and how are you letting them go?"

Jumping right on in, lol!
 

Somebody done messed up and let me get to know these big beautiful women from the Queens of Comedy years ago...and in that came another huge confidence boost.

Now I like that "kshuh kshuh" from the hoola hoop...I saw this a long time ago...and I took it in and honey I ain't never been the same since....

Mo'nique has the right idea when she said, "honey, I am big beautiful and loving it".

That's me...I don't need to be a size 4 to feel sexy and beautiful...trust me, at this size 18 I can still rock that...and him. I choose to be who I am because it suits me....I like that I am not embarrassed anymore because I am still beautiful and smart and sexy as heck...does my weight really make me less than? Uh, no...that just doesn't compute.

Come on now...plus size doesn't mean less honey, it means more. More of everything...more love, more woman, more confidence, more heart, more mind, more compassion, more kindness, more caring, more, more, more...we've learned the hard lessons of reality and turned them inside out to grow ourselves in the strength and overcomer's department.

Life hasn't been easy, but we have learned from it, especially the discrimination of being a BBW. Not one of the exes I have ever had after I gained my weight ever, ever, ever had a problem with my size...once when I asked one former lover I was almost yelled at (he was offended as if I did something wrong)...he said", babygirl, have I ever made you feel anything less than beautiful, sexy and loved?" I had to admit that no, he had not.

So ladies, take it like you like it, but I took my ex's words and never looked back.
He thought I was hot and sexy...
I thought I was hot and sexy....
I know I am a good woman and there is a good butch/TG/Ftm man out there that will love us just as we are.
If not--it's their loss.

I had a very sweet man tell me just recently, "I see you. You're beauty goes much deeper than what's on the surface. You're pretty from the inside out. This is unique. I can't help but notice."

I love being me. I am a B.B.T.W. (Big Beautiful Texican Woman) and I don't make excuses for it. Love me or don't. I'm not the one missing out!

Receive that for yourselves my sisters and never let anyone tell you who or what you are. You're beautiful.

In case you forget...
 

One more--
 

One of my friends shared this with me & I LOVE it:

When you’re a plus size woman, people like to say “yeah, she’s cute in the face”, as if being full figured is such a disgrace.


Honey, I’m cute in the face, and I’m thick in the waist.
I look good whether I’m in cotton, leather, or lace.
I’m beautiful, vibrant and above all, smart!
And there’s more to me than my weight, I also have a heart.
Yes my clothes maybe a bigger size,
That just means you have access to a bigger prize.
We are not self-conscious about our weight,
And we never have a problem getting a date.
So don’t think your small frame gives you more pull,
I’m a hot, sexy, curvy woman with a figure that’s full!

***

All women can't be a size zero
Not even on a high profile Fashion Show.
Ladies can be a small or big size
& Still look pleasing to the eyes
Can I hear an "Amen" Guys, you should know.

Not about Fat but Positive-Confidence-Self Love
 

SELF-PORTRAIT II

Questing, a woman dares to reinvent herself.

—Dana Heller, The Feminization of Quest Romance

No more teacher clothes.
I want chamois shirts
and shorts with pockets I’ll need
for a trek in the Himalayas.
I want a tutu and overalls for my
new career as a ballerina electrician,
a carpenter’s apron and power tools
so I can work on Habitat for Humanity
and build my writing studio.

No more timidity, no cringing.
I can say “no” with grace
and my opinion about anything.
I don’t need your approval
and I won’t shrivel when you yell
or weep. I have limits, you know.
I will learn to climb sheer rocks,
fly a helicopter, handle bees
and embrace every dragon I meet.

WHAT SHE WANTS

Inside
is the little girl
from not that long ago.



What does she want?
She wants what she always wanted:
to be taken seriously.



Outside there’s a woman round
as an over-ripe plum. People point,
their voices cruel, jesting.



What does she want?
What she’s always wanted:
to be taken seriously.



CB FOLLETT

re: the proposition that possibly individuals who present fat are percieved as being less than they are and thus, seen as having less than desireable self esteem, etc.

I think the better way to address things of this nature is to call out that particular thinking process and let the owner of that particular perception bear the full weight of their own biases. Why do I advocate that position? I think it is necessary to challenge biases of this nature and let the owner who dares to propel that kind of ideology do the work it takes to dial back their own biases, so that particular social narrative is called to a halt.

It's important to not cave into false construction of ideas that places the burden on the person being victimized for their own beauty and, who no doubt, deserves positive strokes about who they are and not what people think they look like or thought of as having less than desireable self esteem, etc.

I say call it out. Put a stop to it. Don't cave into social processes that do nothing positive for the person who is beautiful in their own right.

Don't know if it's been posted yet
 

They got it going on
 

here's a good video regarding self esteem
 

I think this is a large part of it. I think another big part of it is that a fat woman should be happy to get any sexual attention, even negative sexual attention. I can't tell you how many times guys have tried to chat me up only to have them call me a "fat ugly bitch" in the next breath when I turn them down. I'm happy no women have ever done this to my knowledge.

I say bust it in a million pieces
 

I want to expand my rationale on personal accountability where it concerns calling out biases that carefully walk the line between being just a bias then as it spirals into prejudicial actions which are used to build credibility into a claim based in the opposite, counter-claim, that hopes to justify a bias - no matter where it resides on the scale of behaviors used to make the claim appear credible and/or legitimate.

I will use Spirit Dancer's latest post to illustrate the underlying logic I see in the premise set by the author of the quote: Dawn French.

French's quote provides a common context known to most people in that Renaissance art has been a place where we find female bodied models who are beautiful in thier own right and 'revered as a fabulous model' of beauty. Then, French goes on to justify her claim based on a counter-cultural issue of not being Fat (Skinny Culture) by suggesting that a reknown model in our own present culture (Kate Moss) would be 'used as a paintbrush' to make another wrong right.

I appreciate how it is that one might feel drawn to make comparisons like that. But I can't get fully behind it. Why? I have to call it out for what I see transpiring within the framed context of logic that is utilized. For, it's not okay that an opposite culture is used to oppress or suppress the real claim at stake in this particular meme. People who are skinny or their body size and range of weight is staged more toward a normed latitude are just as valuable in our society as people whose range of size or weight is found on another spectrum of the latitude - those of us who are bigger or larger or whatever descriptor that one wants to adopt as their own personal descriptor.

Let's take me (for example): I think of myself as a tank. My own identity is charged positively in that while it's not necessarily a true marker of my physical shape, what is truer is the proverbial connotation of what the term "Tank" means: I adopt Tank as an armor that aids me in repelling social stereotypes (isms) which carry a negatively charged connotation. I'm not as big as I was six months ago, but I am still a fairly big woman - because my bone density and physical makeup will only allow me to look as lean as only my body will allow. I don't think I will ever weigh less than 200, but if I ever weigh 190, will have a big party!

What I am trying to say is that to me, it's not okay to use a counter-proposition that oppresses another type of culture or identity to justify the negatively charged messages about ourselves in the world of using language as thoughtfully and carefully as one can. Sometimes I surface process, but mostly I process at a level in cognition that requires time to process and take in all the items present that I see in the environment. Those items might look like: physical cues, non-physical cues, tangible textual cues (re: the quote by French), and if we're in a face-to-face situation then no doubt other signifiers come into play. For example, speech processes, cultural cues found present in the way a person dresses or proximity (distance) between members who are sharing a channel of communication with each other.

It takes a deeper commitment in the process of calling out social stereotypes pertaining to size culture (Fat) than using a surface process to justify the hurtful messages we are bombarded with on a daily basis. I want to say that in developing this post, my intention is to not make my friend SD feel badly for the comparison she felt led to make in support of those who are larger in size as opposed to those who are less our size. I only do this with a loving heart and remaining true to my own level of social and personal accountability in illustrating a principle that I feel is important in providing a feasible remedy for combating biased, prejudicial aspects we face on a daily basis.

Maybe one way to reframe the message conveyed in French's quote could go something like this:

I'm glad Reuben Art mirrors my beauty and that Kate Moss can enjoy my beauty too: We paint a beautiful world together!

So, hopefully what I submit today is met with a willingness to carefully inspect flagged messages in our daily lives and make a commitment to counter biased and prejudicial acts of communication by reframing what we let ourselves hear, read or what we allow ourselves to think. I think the remedy begins with ourselves and my own challenge on a daily basis is to treat myself with loving kindness and dwell only upon thoughts which uplift me and those around me.

I hear women telling me what they cant wear...

I cant expose my arms, they are too big

I cant wear belts, my stumach is too large

I cant wear pants, my ass is too big

I cant wear sexy nighties because I am round

I cant wear shorts my legs are too fat

I cant wear heels because people will laugh

I cant wear sexy because no one will believe it

I cant wear dress-up because I will be a joke instead of sensual

I cant wear ....

its amazing some of us leave the house with anything on at all. No stripes, loud colors, prints, nor white. However, glitter, sequins, animal prints and satin stripe around our necklines (the supposed smallest part of our upper body) are ok.

So I go to work wearing....extremely thin strapped tank tops...and shorts. And stripes and loud prints...REALLY LOUD prints. LOL. And I dyed my hair blue black and wear rich deep colors on my face. I cant wear heels but I paint my toes and I put on hats that dont match anything I wear. LOL. And they love me. Actually, they actually love themselves. And that...is what its all about...:moonstars:

What a truly beautiful post.