Getting Rid of Flippant Language : Check Yourselves Here
 

I was doing some thinking over the last few weeks and wanted to bring up a topic of discussion about hurtful language or the flippant use of words that might be super hurtful to other folks.

I have been making a concious effort not to say someone is "a pussy" if I feel they are acting in a rat-like, weasely, wimpish, or spineless manner. Because really, Im a feminist and using a word like "pussy" to describe bad behavior doesnt flow with my feminist roots all that well.

Im also trying to be more conscious of using the verbiage "someone is bitching and griping" because again, "bitching" implies "whining like a bitch". And I think we might all be able to see the problem with using the word "bitch" in this manner

Another one that I feel is particularly hurtful:

"r*tard" - as in "something is r*tarded"

Let's talk about it. Are there words that you find offensive when used flippantly? Have you done work around your own set of problematic language?
Let's talk about breaking those habits and developing new ways of speaking.

whatever!










-----------------

Ah yes!

I think I was 18 or 19 before I knew that using those words to describe how I got a better deal on something was ignorant and offensive. I grew up with a Step-Father saying those words every Saturday at yard sales "Well, can I get you any lower on the price?"


GREAT examples.

And I almost forgot:

the terminology around being an "Indian Giver"

ouch.

Bastard.

My two adopted children are technically bastards. And yes, I'm ashamed of the fact that I sometimes use the word in jest when teasing folks I care about or else referring to someone I dislike or have issues with.

I am, however, working on not using it and wish other folks would do the same thing.

Words

Ohhhhhh, this is gonna be hard. :bigcry:

I actually am a bastard and still say it a lot. You are right though, I need to watch it.

Thank you, Words. I had never thought of that type of implication around that word but absolutely see how it can be ouchy.

Actually you have touched on something else that I am trying to learn to navigate. (and thank you for talking so honestly about this G, I know it can be scary!)

I have a cousin who has constant seizures and I know that my Aunt (her mom) had one really bad argument with someone in my family during a holiday several years back. Someone made the comment, "GOD! Dont have a fucking seizure!"
My Aunt let the other family member know really quick that it was hurtful and triggery.

I can see that. I can see how phrases that are entrenched in our culture can become the "catch of the day" but also might be triggery to someone dealing with real issues.

Much like you G, I try to leave room and humor where I can. Its a fine line and I think we all have to do what feels comfortable for us. For instance, my own 'ouchy' feelings around the word "pussy" dont feel ouchy when other Femmes use that word in the same way. Its just a choice I make for myself and no judgment on other folks who dont see it the way I do.

:)

I struggle with words all the time. I words I hate being called retard, stupid, lazy, wacko, or the ones that center on my health issues like having seizures & being asked if I act like a fish out of water flopping on the floor.

I just am not the kind of person to respond negatively back at the sayer of the remark. I tend to keep it in. Sometimes after repeated "attacks" and nobody steps in, I just let loose and say something. The words may not be the right ones, or may come out backwards - that person knows they are being nasty.

When my tics start up, I am a hermit. It is a horrible thing to have. Jokes just seem endless. And when someone see's me with my tic going full force, they laugh. I ignore it. They don't know better.

My bio-father was verbally abuse towards me. I am a very quiet and shy person. I try to let things go, and really try to be a man of forgiveness. However, there are some folks who really do enjoy being mean and ugly, like my father. They are the ones I avoid. At the end of every day, I pray for them. They need it. It takes no more energy to be mean than it does to be kind and loving.

While I agree there should be some editing in speech, I do think there is such a think as being overly PC.

For example:
One of my favorite sayings is "Fuck a Duck".

While I mean no harm to the member of the poultry family or have any inkling of beastility, I still say it. I will most likely continue saying it.

I can appreciate a level of checking one's self but I don't want to lose sight of still being able to express myself in a manner that provides a sense of character and uniqueness.

As someone who wanted to be a linguist I'm well aware of all of the horrible origins in many of the phrases we use every day.

Medusa I get where you're going with this thread but I don't necessarily think of these things as flippant. Often times it's quite calculated.

But we would all do well to educate ourselves on the words we use online and in person.

Not to make light of your condition, Just_G, but this is a good example of why it's impossible to speak in such a way that no one will ever be offended. Or, to use a more personal example, several years ago I was diagnosed with ADD. It annoys the living crap out of me (no offense to sentient crap intended) when people make silly remarks about ADD, about 'ooh, bright shiny' etc. They've got some sound-bite knowledge about it (ergo, none), and have no idea what the real experience of ADD is like (frequently, quite difficult and painful.) Be that as it may, it's an annoyance, not something that offends me. Because, after all, you can't LOOK at me at tell that I have it.

Using words that are clearly derogatory and directed at body parts, skin color, (obvious) mental handicaps and the like are used way too often by a lot of people who should know better. My theory? We're lazy and as a culture have become coarsened to certain types of language. (I'm so sick of hearing the word fuck and its derivatives used as a noun, verb, adjective, and gerund I could fuckin cut a bitch.) In Medusa's example of using 'pussy/bitch' around her femme friends and that being okay is no more so than blacks referring to themselves as niggas. The argument (which Medusa didn't make, I hasten to add) that it's somehow empowering, I think, is bullshit. I think it subconsciously reinforces negative stereotypes even within the groups that are 'taking back' the word(s) at issue.

I got off track here and can't find the rails. Nevermind. :)

"wife-beater" instead of tank top

Yeah, I've used this term, but I'm really trying to get it out of my vocabulary.

I think it's a wonderful idea for thread, since we all have used words and phrases that have hurt others throughout our lives. It's impossible to not have done so.

I got a lot out of this post, but I hesitated when I came to the underlined part. Our community has 'taken back' many terms that were used in a derogatory manner, such as dyke and Queer.

As someone who id's as Queer, I hope that I'm not reinforcing a negative stereotype of Queers.

I know that Rush Limbaugh uses the term: "bend down and grab the ankles" to describe what the dems do to the republicans. It always irks me when he does that. He is not only implying rape, but also anal sex. While rape is a horrid thing (as someone who has experienced it first hand), the implication that anal sex is something equally horrible is a problem for me. It has homophobic implications as well.

Im so glad we are all having this conversation!

And I just want to say that Wolfy brought up a word that made me think a little harder (thanks Wolfy!)


The word "cunt"..aka the "c" bomb *isnt* problematic for me. I personally ADORE that word. It feels like a reclamation of power to me.
Here is the point that I wanted to make with this thread, there are words that we might use in our vocabulary that feel different to other people. Wolfy gave a great example of how the "c" bomb feels when Wolfy hears it.
I can now be *aware* when I use that word in Wolfy's presense that Wolfy feels differently about that word than I do.

And awareness gives us the ability to make choices. I like that.

Now, here is another thing to think about. It feels to me like there is a difference in using words that are racially, ethnically, or culturally offensive (think "gypped") and using words like "cunt" that may be sexist or misogynistic when describing a woman and people like me who use the word "cunt" to take the power back from the hierarchy that tries to villify or silence me with my own sexuality.

One of those is NEVER ok, one of those is ok (for me) because of how *I* own it. I dont know if this makes any sense here.

Now, do I think that someone could come in and say "Well, I use the word "gyp" because it means that I am owning it differently"? No. I think that a word like that, when used in the context of denigrating an entire group of people, can't be owned by anything except one of those -isms. (or ignorance)

Again, I am SO SO SO glad that we are all talking about this. I think that we can all help each other communicate in more thoughtful ways and ways that make the Planet feel more positive to everyone who comes here. Thank you all so much :)

My love!

I have the same stuff going on around the word "crazy". I am, technically and medically, "crazy" and I have used that word to identify myself in mixed company as a way to show folks that Im ok talking about it. It is an intensely personal thing when it comes to medical stuff (as you well know) and I know that I have been in conversations where people are incredibly uncomfortable asking questions or trying to navigate around my idiosyncrasies. I use the word "crazy" to kinda say "Hey, I have a diagnosis for all of this eccentric stuff." I *identify* with "crazy".

But.

A mental health professional has told me that this word is hurtful to people who dont own it in the same way.

The question sets up a weird dichotomy for me where I put my identity as "crazy" first or those other "crazy" people's feelings. I dont think it has to *be* a dichotomy but Im still learning to navigate that.

In short, I HEAR YOU! YAY!

There is SO much that comes to my mind with this thread, that I have not been able to express. So, I'll just start.

Here.

I think about when I was living in a major city, in a predominantly Black neighborhood where many folks starting referring to each other as "nigga" on the street as an offical greeting at the time - complete with hand grasp and big hug/back pat. There was clearly great pride, and some folks appreciated it, while others clearly did not.

I wouldn't say that to anyone Black. I remember my gay male friends years back reclaiming the word "faggot". I felt, like many of us did... "they could say it, but no one else had better use it". (Like against them.) Then, we start saying "dykes, lesi-humpers", whatever... Don't you say it though. WINK.

Today if you're close to folks, this can be exchanged affectionately back and forth! (Ya bunch of damn queers!! Or, "straight folks", whichever shoe fits... MUST-BE-AWARE-OF-EVERYSINGLEPERSONAND/ORLIFEFORM.)

Don't you think much of this topic concern is so relative to times, political climate and such? Like "Married With Children"... When it first came on, I laughed for probably some of the wrong reasons. I had been conditioned to a certain degree, yes. Then I became politically aware and was appalled at the show. Now, I laugh my butt off at it. I see it now as poking fun of folks - who poke fun of folks... (Like the Archie Bunker show. His show chair is in the Smithsonian for goodness sakes! A racist on the show, but "learning"...?) These shows were "ahead?" of their time and walking a fine "edgy" line. So, did I "regress", or change how I perceive things, what? I know I've changed and changed and grew, but you might not know it, if you don't know my journey.

Speaking of "butts". Songs like lyrics like "I like big butts", or "Fat Bottom Girl" by the group Queen... Offensive? He was a queen, could he write that? Blacks singing about loving large round booties, isn't that a beautiful thing to the women? (While, the white models are anorexic trying to be skin and bone - fucking dying to be "beautiful". That seems "nuts" to me, there I said it! Crazy reference.)

This IS and will be all over the place. Sorry.

Jew-ed and gyp-ed will be offensive as it is referring to a group of people. A culture. Stereotyping. And I don't think with these particular histories: they joke about it amongst each other - or find any fondness with such qualities "inferred". (I'm not sure though, they may joke about it... I wouldn't, but I can't relate and feel thus I have no right. Can't "reclaim" what was never there to begin with for me.)

When I moved back from N.Y.C., ill at that time - and a friend of mine said "so and so was just a fucking cunt"! I nearly fell off the bar stool. That was such a horrible word to me. Now, I occassionally might use it, but verbally disclaim first stating: you know this is NOT a popular word, so it has to be a REALLY bad person for me to think or say such a thing.

But, if we grew up with that word usually being used after a woman was gang raped and [literally] pissed on... and in movies for entertainment! It felt like such a horrible word.

Now, if women amongst theirselves want to have fun and reclaim that word. Is that a problem?

Using the rape word seems terrible to me. I've never used that expression in an anology situation (that I can recall anyway), and didn't even think of it until it was mentioned here. Some folks are even upset that fantasy role playing involves the concept of rape. Consenting adults... Is it wrong or unhealthy? Is it not good to enjoy it? I thought one way back in the day, newly dealing with violence politically in our society against women and now completely different - with regards to consenting adults doing their own thing.

Retarded. Again, one of those words where we had become politically aware to be sensitive and considerate about. Certain folks were called that, even if they simply couldn't talk - with a high IQ. I wouldn't use it, well - my Mom would have threatened us if we did so as kids. However, after a head injury friend said it to me during a phone conversation - I have been freed up here, walking around like "retard's" my special new Tourette's long lost [self included here] friend!
__

Super, even though the things you described a few post back are frigteningly horrific (the fires and such), now - that you're safe and past that period of your life, I found that funnier than hell that you wrote that! Hey, they could have used YOU in the Stone Age as a fire starter! LOL!! Or, "how could you REMEMBER to order a pizza 23 x's"? Ah, ha, ha! I can relate some.

Listen, I was in my local grocery store the other day. I shopped around a bit - it is NOT a pretty picture trust me. (I've wondered before what I must look like as a video short in a store - back and forth, no sense or logic to anything!) Then I thought... "OK I am done here now", and started hunting and hunting up and down the aisles for my basket. Looking repeatedly in the same exacts spots. I often move it around and set it down somewhere - out of harms way for trippers. So, every two minutes I'm flying past the cash register stating, "I can't find my damn basket"!!! Long story short, it was on the egde of the conveyor belt already. I forgot that I had set it down there - and then wondered off for something else (which I often DO). They know me there.
__

Anyway, "intention". Isn't that key, but then what about other folks sensibilities? I guess one person may have to "tone down" in certain forums, while other's have to grow thicker skin? What if a young person IS just learning that "GYPED" came from a stereotype of people - not that is was just a word that meant shorthand slang for "ripped off", spelled "jipped". Intention. Mistakes. I speak out myself when I am not comfortable hearing something. And I apologize if I offend anyone.

I am PISSED right now that things are "QUEER", back in the negative sense of the word - that folks are "gay acting", etc... is not exactly one nice compliment. That the straight kids are using this and it's becoming more and more acceptable. Does it help in ONE way, but hurt in another? Or neither?

If someone's heart is hurt. If folks are still in danger of being hurt physically for who they are... the "Howard Stern Sydrome" needs to stop - or be called out. (What I USED to call the Don Rickles mentality - but, many don't know who that is anymore.) Get a laugh at the joke/expense of others. Insult specialists! Look at how rich it has made Howard to be rude and insulting. Why wouldn't folks think that is cool and want to emulate that?

Right now I have major sundowners! I got up thinking it was Thurs. morning, and wondered how I would make it to tonight's Survivor - the only reality show of interest to me at this time. (Some seasons I like these shows and some I don't watch, or I don't want to get caught up addicted to them - and there are some "big meannies" on some of these shows! We have gotten too used to liking/accepting this negative crap, I feel.) Anyway, then, Rick Sanchez on CNN said, "Larry King up next live at nine". I shot my view to the window and thought, SHIT it is night time 9 o'clock, and I just missed my show!

I didn't even think about the word "crazy" being negative anymore. Old words have new meanings now, right? I joke about it - for myself. But, that has been such a long standard. Someone went "crazy on that guitar or drum solo"! It was a compliment at times! (Like "BAD" is the new "GOOD"!) I've said things like "they only have three burners working", or "dumber than a box of rocks". (And for myself too.) But, I was sensitive when I said these things to others, aware of it. It was usually directed at someone who had hurt someone. (Again, myself included.) SO, intention was perhaps not so "considerate" then? I was human and acted out a bit, in retaliation... in a protective mode(?) Did they have it coming? Is in excusable, forgiveable?

Would I call anyone "retarded", who was - or was someone I did not know, who could be? No. Would I call someone physically challenged, "lame"? No. Have I had lame excuses for things, "yes".

What is/are my point(s)? I don't know...

Sincerely,
WILDCAT

:guitar:

Rock on!

SNIP...thankyouthankyouthankyou! my sweet round phat ass and i thank you.

next subject. i'm rarely offended by words themselves but rather by their intent. it allows for less restriction and volatility in conversation and artistic expression.

i love the word CUNT. i own the book Cunt. i have a friend who turns the spine of the book around every time she walks by my book case. i want to buy her a copy for the holidays.

i love describing myself as phat or fat or ffat or whatever version of it comes out of my fingertips as i type that day. i dont have a weight problem. it's other people who seem have a problem with weight.

i love the word FUCK. i would use it like punctuation if i hadnt been asked not to by someone who matters to me.

i dont like to say G*DDAMMIT or J*SUS because i dont like to walk all over the belief systems of others. it seems unnecessary.

i am bothered when people say "DONT BE SUCH A GIRL" as if to be a girl could possibly be something one would dislike1

i love saying BUGGER and COCKUP and SHITE because they imbue swearing in Amerika with a different flavor.

i love the word QUEER and use it often in many connotations.

i'm offended when people say THAT'S SO GAY because they never mean it to mean "hey, look at how cool and intensely intelligent that is." or "my how pretty and fresh and delightful." perhaps GAY could be the new N-word?

last summer i wrote a prayer for my altar. this thread brings a specific part of it to mind: I will not lose sight of the fact that my words and actions are meant to be gifts to the world rather than weapons against it.

Wow, this was sad to me. I'm sorry you went through this experience WolfyOne, with your siblings. I can't even imagine.

I always thought the "c" word was vulgar sounding too. It was like the worst thing you could say about a woman. It our area it is still not used - except for my one friend's family! All of the girls there say it. (Think like "Kitty from Gunsmoke", using the highest level of profanity! And ALL quick tempered redheads! FUN!! Now, I am a bit of a redhead, not being "redist" here, Mm-K?)

There were three sisters and ONE brother growing up in our household. IF my brother would have EVER used "any" word like that to/at/for us, there would have been a hole out one of the house walls replicating his exact dimensions.

Places like this with public writing, of course I try to be considerate. Isn't it just common courtesy? Sometimes I am shocked by what I read, AND I also have knee-jerked with the band wagon - that has normally been when someone was not just confused, or not showing they now understand or even care, but actually being downright rude and provocative - seemingly with intent. (WHICH has often kind of proved the point for the "knee-jerk" in the first place and follow up responses. Instigating, so to speak. Target words used with mal-intention.)

But, we are going to make mistakes. It's how we learn and grow! (I know, I always say this kind of stuff!) And everyone is at a different place of personal growth and understanding. I've said this before too - that's just the reality of it all. There are many kind and helpful folks here though.

Some rude ones are "joykill" for me though, I'll admit. The spirit and intention of a brand new thread can be brought down SO QUICKLY. I would get all excited to see something of interest to me - next thing I knew there is someone posting antagonistically somehow. It is hurtful and seems senseless to me. But, "humor" to someone else. Hatred sometimes? Perhaps some of this does make sense to some, well clearly it does - as wars break out for folks taking sides. We usually see these things on what we know are the "hot topics". (And then there's the nasty breakups of course...)

Yes, we also see repeatedly that folks state, "this is why I stay on the fluff and fun threads". I have often considered that myself.

The wars are generally for two different reasons though. Sticking up for someone they know or share the same sentiment(s), OR because someone felt someone was jumped on too harshly. Sometimes in the heat of battle we can't even keep from [distinguishing] that too clearly...

:mob:

We should be able to write anywhere here without fear. IF someone rips on me publicly in a thread, or writes something "anti" any person, group, culture, etc... folks can and will speak up. That is community. That's not all a bad thing.

The trolls kill me. I finally accepted that this is done on purpose (yeah, it was a true shocker and heart breaker), and now can see the pattern at times. We need to be careful with that here I believe - and not turn on each other when we are in fact being set up to do so. (That's NOT the same thing at all where there is a good debate topic up for discussion.)

Generally, once I am done with someone though... I am "done". Their loss! (I do embrace efforts however to clear up things - for the genuine at heart. I'm a softy that way!) I see there are others like this too.

:cheer:


*There are no easy answers. It IS just good that discussions are taking place like this - especially on a new site. Thanks for that!! (I think I got a little too general and broad here. Oops. Emotional "PMS" disclaimer time! :watereyes: Afraid to submit this now...:overreaction: I know, it's boring... but, I hate to expose my thoughts, I just can't help myself though!)

:ambulance:

When I read the title of the thread, I wasn't thinking of specific words, but rather how words are used to demean or dismiss. As Hudson wrote, earlier, "whatever." Being sarcastic, flippant, and dismissive are ways to hurt someone deliberately or thoughtlessly with language. In my view, using language in this way is more offensive than the use of any particular word.

On the subject of specific words, my feelings have changed about certain words, over time. When I came out the first time, in the late 70's, the word queer was not acceptable in my circles. Coming out again, within the past 7 years, I was surprised to hear how the word has been reclaimed. At this point, I love it and use it to describe myself with pride.

I'm fairly desensitized to the use of any word, especially on line, where nuances can be lost. I don't assume that someone has to speak a certain way to avoid offending me. I *do* get offended, but I really won't bother to engage someone about it unless I really give a shit about the person or the subject. I pick my battles. At the same time, I do try to pick my words carefully, to avoid offending as well as to reflect my own meaning and values, and I respect others who do the same.

When someone does find a word to be offensive, I wish they'd just say so, and give the offender a chance to understand and take ownership of how they affected someone else. On a website I'm on, someone recently posted something using the words f#ck and Jesus in the same sentence, which deeply offended another member. She expressed how she felt, the original poster apologized, and that was that. Simple and honest, and considerate. Everyone has a different idea of the meaning of words. Usually, no harm is meant. Things seem to go smoother when you give people the benefit of the doubt.

I'm sure at some point, on some website, I may have offended someone with my language.

Words I use on a regular basis and don't intend on stopping:
Fuck
Cunt
Wife Beater
Bastard (Yup, my daughter is a bastard)
Cock Sucker (saved for those really special people)
That's so GAY (Hear this more from queers than straights)
Fag (I see/hear it ALL the time in queer circles, as a matter of fact I use it to describe myself)
Fat (ie: I shop at the fat girl store)
Queer
Bitch
Jesus Christ (or some variation thereof)

There are more, but it's early and I haven't had my hot chocolate yet.

I guess we've all been offended at something someone has said at some point in our lives. I don't normally get offended if someone calls me names....whatever. That's their shit to deal with, not mine. It takes much more than someone to call me a bitch or a cunt or a fag to offend me. Usually my response is "thanks and you have a great day too!"

O SNAP!
 

!The only word that really offends Sabra--WALMART!!

:overreaction: It is true. Walmart sends shivers down my spine.

I can certainly relate to the bold part of the statement. I usually say the same thing as I am dodging a beer can or a 32oz. styrofoam cup of toothachingly sweet ass iced tea that some redneck threw at me from a truck that sits taller than my house!! LOL

Name calling, and words people choose to use in their vocabulary does not bother me. I do try to watch the words I post because I realize words can be triggers for some folks.

I am with Sabra I have my language that I used and don't intend to stop using

I have a huge list of words I use but I shall spare y'all with the horrid list