Reclaiming Lesbian Pride
With the interest sparked by the discussion in the leaping thread, I was wondering whether it might be worth starting a thread on reclaiming lesbian pride - sans all the qualifiers. It feels kind of good, reaffirming, empowering to just talk about being a lesbian and seeing the word being used more freely. Was also interesting to see talk about the history of the lesbian feminist movement. So much history I have forgotten about. I miss talking about it. Any one have any thoughts, feelings, ideas, news that might fit well here? |
I'll be back in the morning, after some coffee...but, yes... :)
There is just one life for each of us: our own. ~Euripides I see being a lesbian as one small facet of the complex person that I am...and that living my own life, as my authentic self, undefined by others...is immense. :rrose: |
hey all...just a plain ole lesbian who is "butch"...and am so confused, but respectful, with all the terms...why can't I just be recognized as a woman loving woman...without all the "designer labels"...what is wrong with that? Whatever we may "identify" as in the confines of closed doors is between the two of us! That is my story and I am sticking to it! I am not here to "argue" or "derail" or anything except be recognized as a plain ole lesbian! PROUD lesbian! Thanks, Kobi!
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Plain ole proud lesbian works for me! |
Tanks, Kobi!
Let me know if ya find out that meaning...lol...have a great day...Clay Quote:
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FIB=female identified butch
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Thanks for the info LOL. In my isolated, antiquated everyday world, all the butches are female identified. Hence using such a term or acronym would be redundant. I feel like such a dinosaur some days. |
FIB is a term I only seen when joining online communities FIB equated to woman identified butch... There seemed to be a need to separate them from MIB (male identified butch). What I mean by separation is online there seemed to be this need to distinct one from the other. I had a hard time learning the verbiage since where I came from or grew where butch equated woman period.
I think the internets introduced us to many gender, label, identity forums discussions and threads such as this. It's a hard road when dealing with all the new verbiage out there and yes sometimes it feels we (women) are continuously put in the back burner. I think threads like this and the discussions being had will not let that happen:) |
I always read it as FBI.
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Welcome Snow! Your thoughts are much appreciated. The words, phrases, acronyms and such used in communities on the internet is truly a learning experience. Sometimes, I wish there was a reference page here that listed them all and their definitions. It would help me not feel like I am reading a foreign language LOL. And, if we had a reference sheet I wouldn't think MIB is referring to the movie Men In Black. Dinosaur I tell ya. I wont even tell ya what I thought FIB meant. |
First..awesome thread idea..It doesn't matter how hard I try..I cannot keep up with all the different ID's now and days..I guess because I treat everyone as individuals but always respect thier choices..I admire some for thier convictions and not backing down. Personally I prefer to call myself a lesbian because for myself putting a lable on me is like trying to describe myself in one little box..it just can't be done..I'm ever evolving and learning and growing and changing. But the one thing I"m sure of..I have always been attracted to butch/masculine women..reminded of a conversation I had with my daughter not too long ago. She was asking what my "type" was..I thought for a moment and said well it's kinda like this...I prefer them like my bread...hard and crusty on the outside but soft and warm on the inside. She laughed hysterically of course and said lets go get some lunch. But it's true. I adore a hard looking butch/masculine woman who is a soft, gooshy, romantic on the inside. Just my .02 cents.
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I always gravitate to the threads that are in the Lesbian Zone.
It always stuck me as odd when people wonder why there is a need for this or that kind of thread. Coming out 35 years ago, I didn't then and still don't mind the term Lesbian. It actually is my preference in terms referring to myself....I tack on Butch and have in the past used WI (Woman Identified) and joke that it did not mean Wisconsin:) . FIB..... hmmm.. I assume there is a difference in being female identified and woman identified.... I really don't care. I am a Butch Lesbian.. or is it Lesbian Butch? WTH... Hi, I am Joan, aka Jo, much easier:) I am the person to whom you are speaking. :) |
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Welcome MsW. And thank you for introducing us to Butch Bread. :) I will have to see if the bakery carries any LOL. Is it possible FIB might mean female in bread? Or do I, perhaps, just need sleep? |
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Then again, we all had different experiences, opportunities, and needs in developing our own unique "queerness". These are reflected in so many different ways in our lives and identities these days. The complexities to which I am exposed to via the internet never cease to amaze and confuse me. I like simple. Then again, my definition of simple may not be the same as someone else's. I have always been comfortable with lesbian. It seems the more accurate description of my reality and experience. I have tried adding qualifiers to it but they just don't feel right/accurate and they can feel very confining to me. Using lesbian, to me, gives me more freedom to express who I am without being locked into anything or pigeonholed into anything. It's liberating. Thank you for bringing up WI (not Wisconsin). I dont know if there is a difference between WI and FI - I'm pretty sure someone knows but it sure as heck isn't me. LOL. I'd like to see more activity in the lesbian zone. I'm just not sure what direction it should/could go in. Have any suggestions? |
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MsW, I want you to know, I stopped by the bakery section of the market on my way home today. I asked the cute little dyke behind the counter where I could find the Butch bread with the hard crust and soft, squishy insides. She wasnt a dyke. She did not find Butch bread to be amusing. And, I think, I now have a reputation for being the crazy lady with early Alzheimers. I really should check my files and see if the recall notice for my gaydar is still active. :jester: |
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There are definitely butches who define as female, but not as women. I defined that way for many years and know quite a many butch who still does. Here the term woman is seen as being connected to a social construct, rather than it being connected to one's biology. (Hope you were actually asking the question?) |
SRSLY? Those are known, culturally-shared distinctions? Isn't it awfully easy for people not versed in it to screw it up?
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I am going to step out of the lesbian zone. I am not looking to have a discussion on this, I was only looking to answer the question, as I think that Kobi was sincerely curious. Have a good day. :hangloose: |
Well... there's a real difference between the kind of identifiers you are listing and the set of widely used identifiers of gender and sex in our culture.
If this isn't the place to go into it, though, I'm fine with that. Thanks DB. :) ER... Wait a minute. You seem to have edited your original post on this. I've been responding to the original, where you listed more configurations of gender/sex identifiers. |
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Thanks Dapper! I knew someone would have the answer. This kind of illustrates why I prefer to stick with lesbian - by todays standards, I think, it indicates quite clearly gender, sex, and orientation in one word. Then again, I could be wrong about that too. LOL. I should see if there is a remedial lesbian course somewhere. |
Ah! Kobi has the original post. Now I don't sound quite so stupid....
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Dapper, You mean I did get the definition of lesbian correct? I am pleased. Thank you for being respectful. It is much appreciated. Tho, please keeping looking in and helping out. That is appreciated as well. :) |
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Reclaiming it? I don't feel like I ever lost it. |
For the sake of clarity, and in the the spirit of reclaiming lesbian heritage and grammatical correctness - neoPolitical Correctness be damned (I never signed on for that, anyway):
female/woman (noun) = sex/biology male/man (noun) = sex/biology lesbian (noun) = a woman of same sex, sexual orientation feminine/masculine (adj.) = gender femme (noun) = female lesbian butch (noun) = female lesbian who expresses female "masculinity" transgender (verb) = moving along a gender continuum. transgender person (noun) = a person of either sex, who may be lesbian, gay or straight. Using adjectives as nouns is not good grammar, nor is it good politics. It just muddies the water. Non-lesbians, who lay claim to lesbian descriptors, are the ones obliged to clarify through expanded labeling. |
Damn. You're good. :)
I'd object (mildly) to your adj/noun edict on a number of grounds--most notably, that you blur the distinction while making it--but I think this is nicely laid out. Question: Sex = gender? They were distinguished above, I believe, at one point, but (without doing any research) I think they do equate. |
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Chazz, I think I understand your intent in posting this. However, it could be seen as a supportive thing or a controversial thing or a little bit of both. I dont want to presume something here. So, could you elaborate a bit on your intent? |
Well, I am not an English Major or writer nor do I know much about grammatics or being politically correct for that matter, but I don't agree with a couple of the items. So, maybe I will say this is how they are for me.
An adjective modifies a noun or a pronoun by describing, identifying, or quantifying words. An adjective usually precedes the noun or the pronoun which it modifies. A noun is a word used to name a person, animal, place, thing, and abstract idea. In that light, both Butch and Lesbian are adjectives for me as they describe parts of me, not all of me....Butch Lesbian Woman Hey! Is that a new acronym? BLW? Cool beans:) Quote:
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Oh, I might add I really like the book" Butch as a Noun" :)
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Transgender is an adjective, not a verb. People aren't transgendering. Also, people aren't transgendered even though it is used all the time. i have even caught my self using it early on and still catch myself using transgendered at times. It can be insulting to many people within the transgender community. It may seem like semantics but it is important. |
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So in coming here to catch up on things this morning, I read the post quoted above and am curious, Chazz, if you pasted this information from somewhere else or if this is how you see things? Like a few others have stated, some of the information is in conflict with my own definitions. For example, the first two entries... I see male and female as biological sex assignments, but I see woman and man as gender identities. It seems important to acknowledge that most of us here will have our own little spin on how all these terms and the grammar of it all......as well as the politics.......play out and, hopefully, we won't let those differences be a barrier in reclaiming lesbian pride (as the title suggests). Thinker (entered as a moderator but posting as a member) :) |
When I started this thread, I hoped it would not turn into a debate of terminology, or who owns what words, or who has the current rights to whatever. I am a freakin lesbian - one of those relic women who wants to be with women who want to be with other women. I am tired of feeling invisible in my own community. I am tired of feeling like a guest in my own community. I just wanted a place to be where others like me can get together and say "hey yea we are still here and we are still ok and we still have a voice and we're not going away." Is that too much to ask? |
Good Morning Kobi, I'm sorry you are feeling some frustration this morning regarding how you are not being seen.. How can we help you not feel this way? What is it you have envisioned for this thread? Are you seeking women with lesbian being their only identifier? How can we help you not feel so alone?
You aren't there's lots of lesbians here I'm sure soon this thread will be full of women embracing their pride right along with you! :) |
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Thank you for your kindness. My frustration is getting in the way of my being able to answer you at the moment. Let me stew on this a bit. |
Lesbian is a weird word. I don't mean the semantics of it, and how we're trying to define or understand it. I mean orthographically. You just don't see the letter l, s, b together in a word much. I remember how, right before and after I came out, my eyes would dart to words like Lebanese and Lisbon in the news or wherever. It's a stand-out letter sequence for me.
When I first started claiming my identity, I said I was gay. I was a gay woman. (I was not, however, a gay, which I think is derogatory, but is becoming more neutral in the plural, e.g., "Gays today want....") There are still one-off situations where I balk at saying lesbian. Like, to an elderly person. Or too-loudly in a cafe. I don't know whether I don't want to ruin someone's lunch or what, and while I think I should analyze that fear in myself I don't much feel like it right now. Well, those are my thoughts, and nothing more, about being and calling myself a lesbian. Thanks for a forum where I can explore it. |
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