The Westboro Baptist Church - Hate Group or?
 

The signs say "God Hates Fags" or "Adam and Eve - Not Adam and Steve!" and now they have turned their attention on Constance McMillen, the Etiwamba High School Senior who wanted to attend Prom with her girlfriend and was subsequently blackballed by parents and other students, being sent to a fake prom.

The Westboro Baptist Church is now planning to picket at Constance's High School Graduation.

I am sitting here wondering if other people see the Westboro Church as a Hate Group, akin to the KKK?

Yes, hate group. Southern Proverty Law Center (SPLC) has listed them under the "general hate" category (http://www.splcenter.org/node/105/activegroups -- see Kansas at the bottom)

They have their own twisted logic. They are a joke. Even your moderate homophobes won't touch Westboro with a 10ft pole. Arguing with them does no good. THey love publicity. They know what envelope to push and they know what can get them into legal trouble and what can't. Best thing is to ignore them. THey want attention, they want argument, and they want the media at their pickets. Collectively ignoring them takes away any power they think they might wield. Are they akin to the KKK. Yes, they are in a way. They focus their collective hatred on one group. But I don't see them as physically dangerous. Nor do they have any power or any influence. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like there is a collective eye roll when Phelps and his family show up. Most towns don't want them around. But you know....freedom of speech and freedom to peaceably assemble and all......I'm more worried about the Arizona "show me your papers" law than Phelps.


Rufus

I have no idea what to think about people so filled with hate. I have heard it is all one family?

Seriously, they seem to go way farther than other Hate groups to see publicity, which makes me think that you all are right and it is all about the publicity and nothing else.

UGH.

This is the part where I censor myself from making some comment about them being "inbred". :nailbitin:

Yeah, sorry, I did hear that though?

I don't know that I see them as being as dangerous as some other hate groups, though. Hurtful and grody, yes....but dangerous? I don't know. They don't go around under a cloak of secrecy like some groups do, and to my knowledge they've not (yet) been physically violent or broken the law outright.

Oh I did too! And something about how the church isnt as big as it looks and that they put a lot of energy into their website and publicity-drawing ventures.

It's just...EWW.

I think if he were to get killed like that he would become a martyr and it would be worse.

Ya know.. what gets me is where the hell these folks get all the money to travel and show their asses from??? I am surprised some secret squirrel queer IRS agent hasn't gone after them. We are everywhere ya know.. heh

More food for the removal of non-profit status from organized churches. Let their asses pay taxes on what they raise from their little charity plates before they fill up their tanks to go harass good people.

Yeah, they totally need to pay taxes.

yes I think they are a hate group.

Its that twisted logic at work. According to Phelps and gang, God hates American's tolerance of gays, therefore God is punishing America, therefore 9/11 is God punishing America for tolerating Gays ....I guess America is supposed to lock us up, or declare us illegal or something.

It freaks me out that so many people actually do think we don't even deserve to be alive.

I agree. It freaks me out to consider all the anti-gay laws around the world which result in murder and torture for people who just want to be who they are. This group feels dangerous because they are so overt in their hatred, although I think it's true that the most dangerous people are the ones planning in secret. But, then again, how many more people think it's OK to express this hate openly when this group has made it so acceptable and proven that their freedom of speech will be upheld over the wellbeing and safety of others?

I guess until facebook, I kept myself pretty insulated from this sort of thing, now, it is all over the place and I am giving it more thought. It really is scary.

I hope people in general see how hate filled this is, and it backfires.

Even though I dislike what they do and say as long as they are not being physically violent, bombing gay bars etc I see them as harmless. The worse of the worse are the crazies that kill abortion doctors and bomb clinics. Phelps knows what lines to stay behind. And I dislike Phelps as much as anyone, but I'm on the side of free speech on this. The worse thing we can do is limit speech. I think the Arizona law is far far worse than Phelps. I think DOMA laws are far far worse than Phelps. Phelps' message is actually lost on most people who can't follow his weird logic. He's become a public nuisance but outside of that he doesn't warrant much attention. Phelps doesn't threaten physical safety. He hurts emotionally, he makes statements about us and about God and he shows up where he's not wanted, but none of that is illegal. If we make Phelps' pickets and banners illegal then next thing we know gay pride parades are illegal. Think about how many people are offended by Pride parades and by our banners. If we stop Phelps then they stop us.

Rufus

Really great points!

what I think...
 

Yes it is a family, yes it is a hate group, yes many of the members are lawyers, yes they are certainly after media attention.

Nate Phelps, the estranged son--ran as fast as he could when he turned eighteen--was recently in Kansas to speak against the group. They didn't picket him.

I guess they don't wish media attention drawn to someone who is believable, and has accused them of improprieties and even child abuse.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...4110804746107#

One of my fave quotes from the Hatemongers documentary is when one of his daughters, in addressing the concern that the family/church is a typical authoritarian cult with an all-powerful patriarch, states:
"Our Father would never permit us not to think for ourselves. He insists on us thinking everything through." lol.
;)
I've never heard anyone ask them the obvious question: Has it occurred to them that they are actually helping gays politically more than hurting us?

I don't think they actually care about "gays", rather that they happened upon a meme that garnered them a great deal of attention. I think we should keep paying attention to them because the moment we get bored they are likely to start blowing things up. Or eating their babies (which they talk about an awful lot :|).

I agree. Yay First Amendment! :LGBTQFlag:

I think Canada is light years in front of the US. You have civil partnerships, national health, and a hate speech law. We have......pretty much zilch. I would love to marry my partner. We can't. Obama has thrown us a couple of scraps so far. So if I have to rank problems, Phelps and his banners get pushed down the list. I mean, I call DOMA a form of hate speech. Its far more powerful hate speech that anything Phelps can throw at me. Do I feel bad for the familes of soldiers that have to see and hear that crap...yes. The real hate speech is being spewed in our state and national legislatures. But its going to take more than a hate speech law to stop it. Hate speech comes in lots of different forms. A hate speech law in the US might stop the Phelps crew but its doesn't stop the politicians, the religious leaders who vote and preach against us.....no hate speech law will stop that. It just stops the crazies like Phelps. I think we waste too much time on Phelps.

MCC sent this out today

METROPOLITAN COMMUNITY CHURCH

RICHARD DAWKINS FOUNDATION



Nate Phelps To Tell Story Of Growing Up

In Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas

Son of 'God Hates Fags' Pastor To Speak At Event

Sponsored By Gay Church, Atheist Foundation



ADVISORY:

Press conference will be held on Friday, 4 p.m., 23 April 2010 at Metropolitan Community Church of Topeka, 4425 SW 19th Street, Topeka, KS to answer questions related to this event.



MEDIA RELEASE:

Nate Phelps left his family at the stroke of midnight on his eighteenth birthday. After years in Canada, Nate returns to Topeka to share his story growing up as the son of Fred Phelps, the "God Hates Fags" pastor, and as a member of the Westboro Baptist Church. Admission is free.



Nate Phelps son of the Rev. Fred Phelps, will be speaking in Topeka, KS, April 24, 2010, from 2- 4 p.m. at the Topeka Performing Arts Center, 214 SE 8th Ave. (http://natephelps.com/)

Nate Phelps
 

Here is that programme:

So Fred will soon be in Nashville, alas, I will be out of the country and can't counter picket.

Amusingly, one of the churches he picked to protest is Two Rivers Baptist where the last time I attended...the sermon was on "If Fathers are Weak their Children will be Serial Killers, Child Molesters or Homosexuals"

Here is why they say they chose Two Rivers....straight from the Phelps website

"Two Rivers Baptist Church 2800 McGravock Road WBC will picket Two Rivers Baptist Church to remind these so-called Christians that the Lord commanded them to boldly preach the whole truth of the Gospel, not namby-pamby, maudlin lies about a weak, effeminate Christ. The Baptists know full good and well that God hates fags and that he casts fags and those that enable them into Hell forever. They are afraid to tell the truth about God's Word because they do not want to suffer afflictions for Christ's sake. Matthew 5:11 "Blessed are ye when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." These so-called baptists care for this world, not the next"

Idiots.

All I can hope is that the Baptists see what hate looks like, straight up and don't actually join in.

Bitter? Yes I am.

I hate Westboro. I hate the Phelpses, I hate their extreme right ideologies.

When they're sitting around wanting to ruin a girl's graduation because she wanted to go to prom with another girl, they're also picketing gay funerals and pride marches. I really hope that one day their uber-fundie crap will be considered a hate crime and Fred Phelps will be arrested.

They're giving Christianity a bad name with these terrible acts.

All I can say is God hates Westboro Baptist.

I'm a documentary addict, and not too long ago, I was nosing around on Netflix and found a documentary about the Phelps family. There isn't an eloquent way to say it - these people are just nuts. Hate in any form is dangerous, and so is any group who promotes hate with such rabid conviction.

I'm not sure if this video is posted anywhere else on BFP or not, but Toxic just pointed this out to me. Has anyone seen what happened when Michael Moore took on Phelps and his family of lunatics?

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_fAYl4Th4"]YouTube- Michael Moore vs Westboro Baptist Church[/nomedia]

Anti-Gay Protesters Pepper Sprayed at Marine's Funeral



A 62-year-old man has been arrested after he allegedly tried to fire pepper spray at members of the radical Westboro Baptist Church as they protested the funeral of a U.S. Marine.

The incident took place at around 10 a.m. Saturday in Omaha, Neb., where some 20 followers of the extremist Kansas sect -- who believe the deaths of American soldiers are divine retribution for the country's tolerance of homosexuality -- were staging a demonstration a block away from the funeral of Staff Sgt. Michael Bock. The 26-year-old Marine was killed in combat in Afghanistan's Helmand Province on Aug. 13.

Police told KETV that the group was facing off with counter-protesters when local resident George Vogel drove by in a pick-up truck. Officers on duty say they saw the driver extend his arm, and spray what they described as a "large amount" of mace into the air after turning a corner. When they later stopped and searched the pick-up, they allegedly found an "industrial-sized" pepper spray dispenser.

"Initial indications are he was probably targeting the Westboro Baptist Church [protesters]," police spokesman Michael Pecha told CNN.

However, it appears as though instead of hitting the radicals -- who were waving signs reading "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" and "God Hates Your Tears" -- Vogel sprayed a small group of counter-protesters. "You couldn't see, you couldn't breathe," Gina Moulas, who had stretched an American flag in front of the church members so mourners wouldn't see them, told the Omaha World-Herald. "It burns like someone poured gas on you and lit it."

Another anti-Westboro demonstrator Leah Kossakoski, whose husband is in the Air Force, told the paper: "The good guys got hit."

Shirley Phelps-Roper, daughter of Westboro leader pastor Fred Phelps, told CNN that no one in her group was injured, as they had covered their faces with their signs.

Vogel has been charged with 16 counts of misdemeanor assault and one count of felony assault on a police officer for the mace exposure, officer Pecha told CNN. He's also been slapped with one count of child neglect, since his child was in the truck at the time of the incident.

The drive-by spraying happened as Bock's family and friends were inside Omaha's First United Methodist Church. Some 600 members of the Patriot Freedom Riders, who escort the bodies of soldiers and protect their families, had ringed the chapel to shield mourners from the extremists.

Scott Knudsen, the Patriot Guard Riders captain for Nebraska, told CNN that members of his organization only ever attend funerals when they are invited by families, and never engage with church members or counter-protesters. "We don't get close to them," Knudsen said of the Westboro members. "We have our backs to them."

Knudsen added that he was disturbed Vogel's vigilantism. "It's inappropriate," he said. "It's a funeral service."

2 of his children have left that fold, The rest of The kids aré ALL involved including grandkids. They aré now fully aware of their rights AND have S
a Supreme Court backing. Phelps (the dad) will die but his hate legacy is here to stay.

Nate Phelps has a website: http://natephelps.com/

Him, he's ok. In fact, reading his story is interesting.

I saw a video of an interview of Nate Phelps when he was in Canada one time. He seemed like a very gentle and intellegent man despite the upbringing he had to overcome.

ETA: Had I taken a second to search..... ;)