Reclaiming Androgyny & The Text Book Definition
 

an·drog·y·nous   /ænˈdrɒdʒənəs/ Show Spelled[an-droj-uh-nuhs]
–adjective
1.being both male and female; hermaphroditic.
2.having both masculine and feminine characteristics.
3.having an ambiguous sexual identity.

androgynous

1620s, from L. androgynus, from Gk. androgynos "hermaphrodite, male and female in one," from andros gen. of aner "male" (see anthropo-) + gyne "woman" (see queen). Androgyne is attested from 1550s.


it does not mean that i am butch and femme.... it does not mean that i give or take and it does not mean that i fuck and get fucked... which was what i was told i am and do...????? LOL

them: how do you identify?
iMe: androgynous
Them: that means you are butch and femme
Me: it means i am butch (synonymous with female) and can pass as male when i choose

Them: no it means you give and take and you fuck and get fucked

Me: oh wow... i suppose i should check out the glossary of terms???
not really in the mood for a battle of witt... i just let it slide after 10 tragic minutes that i will never regain

though i am fully aware that whom ever it was merrily went on its' misguided way to re-educate others... and for that i apologise but i was not in the mood for yet a nother attack... (being an asshole sure is tiring)


But the Fact Remains... i am reclaiming the word... ANDROGYNY
when you have the ability to enter a bath house (male)...to pull out your late for the show at my club, drunken, coked up horny drag queen from room #7 with out being told 'hey no women allowed' or when you go to the male hustler clubs and old men by you drinks all night thinking you are chicken meat... then, my dear you are androgynous...

whether one gives or takes is neither here nor there... whether one fucks or is fucked as well bears no consequence to the words' actual meaning... fact is... when you can 'naturally and unadulteratingly' pass as either gender... and /or are constantly reffered to in public as he, him, sir, mr.etc etc etc... chances are... taking it or not... you are androgynous...

learn it...live it...love it...

oh one more time for good measure...

an·drog·y·nous   /ænˈdrɒdʒənəs/ Show Spelled[an-droj-uh-nuhs]
–adjective
1.being both male and female; hermaphroditic.
2.having both masculine and feminine characteristics.
3.having an ambiguous sexual identity.

When I am talking to straight people, I use the definition you posted. When I'm talking to LGBTQ people, I don't use the term much because it has the potential to mean so many different things.

Go Green with ANDROGYNY
Reclaim, Re-use & Recycle

Welcome to the BFP

sorry to see
 

Sad for me to see this thread so bare... :rrose:

The first time I was mistaken for a "hot guy" was a defining moment in my life. I was hanging out with my guys in someones front yard. I was the only female but I didn't dress any different from them. Someone was on the phone with a girl and her friends down the road. From their window I was not only male but the one they wanted to talk to. It wasn't the first time I wished I really was a guy. Or the last. Many other times I have had the opposite set up and wished I were more feminine. I have thought I wish I were a girl many times as well. So for me my gender presentation comes into conflict when it comes to dating. More often I am attracted to someone who sees my "type" is not "their type". Just recently I have been getting close to an androgenous person and have experienced many positive and difficult aspects of this match up. The best thing so far has been the kindredness and understanding. Has anyone else ever felt frustrated enough to sometimes wonder "why can't I be more ___" when feeling hope become rejection?

I'm sorry too, to see so few....
 

Yeah, so much depends on who I'm talking to and what fuckin mood I'm in....<sigh>

Androgynous is the label I prefer to use, rather than butch or femme. Or I just tell people I'm just me.

Not one or the other, but both at once. Yes, really confuses some people.

I have come to truly value the term Two-Spirit, which I learned and came to understand thanks to two of my exes. One being Native American, the other being Native Alaskan. To me, the term seems to capture the essence of "both at once".

wow, this thread's almost a year old?!
 

So, when I saw this on the home page I was thinking "OK, there is a theme for today" ~ Be who you are, own it, don't let other folks tell you who you are or what you do.

EVERY time I take a gender test I score as androgynus. Yup. I am me and other folks don't get to tell me who I am....and I do get to live and learn and grow and change into the new me I am always becoming a magnificent new concrescence every moment. (even if i am an ass at times)

This is a thought provoking thread!

As a matter of course, I don't think about identity labels all that much. I'm just me, being me, on a moment by moment. I don't give labels butch/femme/androgyny/gender queer/transgender/..... all that much thought. Except, from a political perspective.

Online and offline in LGBTQ circles, I'm pegged as a [hard, masculine looking] butch. I don't embrace the label "masculine" because, TO ME, it smacks of a false gender duality; one I've been rejecting all my life. The more "butch" becomes associated with, or defined as some version of (variation on?) "masculinity", the more I bridle under it's weight. I'm not "masculine". I'm a lesbian woman who does not abide by contemporary canon about sex, gender or sexual orientation in mainstream or LGBTQ culture.

Associating me with "femininity", would be a source of hilarity everywhere. :blink:

For me, the term androgyny does NOT denote "masculine" AND "feminine"(or some mix thereof), it denotes NEITHER.

I'm a hybrid. Some might say a 3rd gender, perhaps, one of many. I suspect people are like snow flakes, no two are the same.

I do not now, nor have I ever had, "cis-gender privilege". As I've said elsewhere, conformity isn't a privilege. I HAVE stopped letting issues of privilege, conformity, passing, gender, etc., rent space in my head. With a very few provisos, I've stopped caring what other people think.

The more comfortable I get in my own skin, the less I give gender identity thought. This doesn't make me "privileged". It's the payoff for much hard, inner work. The result of a life-long process that allows me to reject "gender" as a paradigm, all together. Arguing gender is like arguing: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin. In the end, it's unanswerable because gender is a construct. A construct is about DOING, not BEING.

I sometimes wonder what our "community" might be DOING if we all stopped identifying with constructs.

(Yes, I do understand that "coming out" and self-understanding are a part of everyone's process. I'm just trying to dribble the ball down the court a little. I'm a heretic by nature.)

I am tired of this rigidity, too. Really, really tired of it. Yes, confident in being who one is- that is a multi-faceted turn on!

Reclaiming androgyny- or redefining it for today is a wonderful idea. We do not have to settle for definitions that no longer fit or just need a tune-up!

I love what is feminine and masculine about myself, always have.

Glad to see this thread!

I do embrace my masculinity, but I can see why many butch women do not since it continues to be equated with male most of the time, including in butch femme circles.

I do think of androgyny as being a blend of masculine and feminine as opposed to neither.

Good topic.

A blend and I believe it can be a much more fluid manner to identify or describe. Back in "my day" it was used positively and carried with it a sense of "equality"- well, within my "circles."

I have never experienced so much slicing and dicing of gender identity as I have within the B-F community. Not my favorite aspect of it. Although, sometimes I honestly think it is simply how people try to find their comfort zone with gender. That is a neutral state to me- not positive or negative, simply musing and figuring out something.

Why some things get so charged is amazing to me. I do embrace my own masculinity, but see it as stemming from the feminine (which is really a personal spiritual concept). I don't view either as good or bad.

As June brought up, I don't know why we in the US are so damn focused on such narrow definitions of gender. To me, this is something that ought to be the height of diversity.

i don't think of androgyny when i think of combinations of masculine and feminine energy. To me, androgyny is an attempt to not be recognized as either. It's like you have to achieve a balance or you have failed. And historically, i think it was an attempt to get out from under sexist notions of femininity without reconstructing them. In some ways, it's a fantasy of not having to deal with difference.

Some LGBTI history-
 

Androgyny has long been embraced by strong women, soft men, members of queer communities, and others who do not easily fit into traditionally defined gender categories.


http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/androgyny.html

Actually, it goes to being recognized as both....

This is exactly how I perceive it.

I love androgyny!

The first time I saw my bf put on a pink shirt I knew we would be all. right. He's a beautiful boy and his disregard for gendered colours makes me love him all the more.

My ex gf, my last serious relationship, was much the same. Everyone thought she was butch.. until the first time they saw her partying in lipstick and girly outfits. She never dressed for any one else.

Maybe we need a "Hair" re-make? Speaking of the play- and how it reflected what was going on in that era. What would it look like now?

So strange- I think that andro can be used as you state- many don't want to use butch or femme. Although, I use butch, I feel androgynous as it has been understood for a long time- and it isn't gender neutral- it is about merging and interweaving. It also has significance in Native cultures and things like Two Spirit. Obviously, androgyny is significant to those identifying as 3rd Gendered or to Transpeople as well as Butches or Femmes.

Thanks AtLast
 

enjoying the topic ...Good stuff!

What would we do without poetic license?

Think about terms/concepts that have been re-claimed as well as powerized and bring groups that once were put down by them new strength and promise.

Acknowledging history does not mean remaining in the past- especially when it comes to gender.

If I could hit the "thanks" button a million times to the original poster, I would. Thanks, Toph.

Unfortunately, it seems this user has not logged in since 2010.

Anyway, anyhow...

I use the term "androgynous" to describe myself for the same reasons. I am physically androgynous, without a doubt. I would imagine butches who bind, pack, wear men's clothes, and have short, typically male haircuts are usually androgynous in appearance. Some are androgynous even without the binding or packing, because society takes cues from wardrobe, haircut, and mannerisms. While those things all cause one to present as masculine, the female body remains underneath - biologically female hands, neck, face, arms, et cetera - and this contradiction of nature causes a person to look and think twice about what someone has below the belt.

Hell, in Stone Butch Blues, Jess (the narrator) ends up going by the term "he-she." I modernized it to "dude chick," but it's the same idea. I do feel being "not quite a man and not quite a woman" places one in the androgynous category, if it is a term said person feels like claiming.

I say genderqueer is my mental presentation. Androgyny is my physical presentation. Butch is my attitude.

when I was much younger I dated ultra femme women or what I called "sporty" at the time. I didn't know much about butch-femme but I knew I was sexually attracted to a certain look. I discovered androgyny. Especially younger, submissive men and women, really I didn't see a gender per se. In fact looking back the serious relationships I was in were with what I call 3rd sex. I know we've had lots of discussion about this but I define it as a type of androgyny. Not only in looks but in action/movement. I admit that I find this highly sexual. (evil grin)

I'm into any type of gender bending, the more extreme the better.

I'll second that - gender bending is hot. I would describe myself as androgynous, certainly - I get "sir'ed" frequently when I'm not trying, sometimes I get "ma'am'ed" when I think I look the most butch.

I get mistaken for a guy sometimes even when I'm making no attempt to hide my breasts. I walk like a man, even in a dress- I just can't hide it. And kids peg me most often - usually as the opposite of my bio gender. I think their minds are more open to accepting what's in front of them than adults who've been trained that everything has a neat little place where it's supposed to fit.

Your last sentence hits the nail on the head for me and what I feel about myself.

You know what is funny, really seriously funny? Since I've grown my hair longer and wear eyeliner what-not (compared to my bare faced buzzed head I did forever) more people tend to think I'm an androgynous pretty guy then ever thought I was a dude when I was mega "butched up"... lol.

Granted I dress very dude-ish... and it depends on the day and how my clothes fall on my body... but yeah, they do. Funny too, my old confusion is now theirs and I'm not at all confused anymore... I found my balance.

:)
Jett

Alex;
you are right, i have had a long hiatus. fact is i was quite ill but am back for more now.

i really appreciate your million times thank you!

i did not mean to leave this thread unattended for so long but it happened and today, filled with rain and gray skies, i found myself reading all the posts and responses a few times over.

it is comforting to know that even some of the most butchly butchies and femmes of all maintenance groups agree and have voiced their opinion/s.

that being said, i would like to share a recent experience

i went for a coffee not long ago i sat outside just staring at the day. a good looking older gentleman approached me and we started talking. it was 30 minutes into our conversation that he realized i am not a bio-male. he thought i was a young man. When he apologized with chuckles he said "Holy shit you look just like a guy" i replied with "Holy shit you sound just like a girl" we laughed and talked and have met for coffee 3 times since.

i have facial hair, a gauté, i have had it since i was about 11. my mother, devoutly Italian, would put hot wax (melted on the stove) on my face and tear away my hair. it was painful and it always resulted in cystic acne. i understood why she did it, i was relentlessly teased and made fun of for either my hair or the result of its disappearance. fact is though, i never cared about my facial hair or my genderfucked appearance, still don't. i am as i like to say, the best of both worlds, love me or leave me.

through recent testing, it has been discovered that i have male pattern hair growth, an extra rib (or a missing rib) also known as Adams Rib, that i have higher than normal testosterone levels, which explains why i have had about 13 periods in all my 47 years. but does this explain my androgyny?

when i shave my gauté i look like i am either a young dude or a superiorly butch chick, but my mannerisms never change. i embrace my female i embrace my male and i embrace my ability to confuse the tunnel visioned world with their ideas and idealism of what either gender should encompass.

but what i do not embrace, is the painfully inaccurate definitions that our own community (whether online or in real time) have now decided belong in our 'glossary of gay terms'. it is a simple case of opening a dictionary.

we are what we are nothing can change that, not chemicals or operations, we still live in our minds where no one can violate or control us, where no one can enter or even understand our mental processes.

i agree with so many of you that it is so much of our own attitudes, our own acceptances and how we live day to day that defines who/what we are.

June;
i have a lot of issues about the same thing!
sometimes i feel more acceptance in the 'straight' world than in the gay world.
sad but true. when are you butch enough? when are you femme enough?
i wouldn't have expected this, but sadly it seems to be surrounding us. when is enough enough?

its interesting that when people think of women being androgynous they speak often about their masculine energy confusing people.

I have been evolving over the past few years and have found that when I dress lately, its not hyper femme like I use to. And my hair is nowhere near a girl's cut anylonger. My local friends have even said a few times to me that I am drawing closer to androgyny. Which panicked me, because back when I came out, androgyny was a political uniform and I wore it to fit in with the other lesbian feminists. Which of course was the wrong reason to "become" anything, but its where I was at, at the moment.

But here I am, sitting in my pretty and plus store, with short black hair, andro glasses, short nails, jean shorts and a basic t. If I didnt have earrings on, what would mark me as a femme? My nephews, age 8, told me the last time I babysat with him, my hair made me look like a boy. But I am a woman and a femme.

I have to go to a huge awards banquet tomorrow night. I have been looking for a gown to wear. I wonder if this andro period/evolv has something to do with it.

when i was a kid i would drive in the car with my momma, she was a New Yorker so her driving was somewhat exciting...she never used her blinkers...i would say momma jesus use the turn signal and she would say and i quote "let the fuckers guess"

that now is my motto in life. it makes me laugh right out loud that my own community spends more time exploring my physical appearance for sign of a gender than extending an olive branch of acceptance which could possibly result in new friendships and understandings.

that is why i prefer dogs!

lol... I prefer dogs and horses, too.

:)

thank you for the smile, I needed that

My mother also is a New Yorker, who met quite a few gender bending folks in the 1940's. There really is nothing new under the sun. Just folks like to think everything is new and improved.

Love your mother's attitude. Though I am glad I am not driving behind her!

Driving with her was hell enough! I will never view a sidewalk the same again!

I love kids. They don't know to be embarrassed or ashamed for wondering about gender or asking questions. Know = how society tells us we should feel/think.

It doesn't happen extremely often (I think somewhat because I am not around young kids often), but I love the, "Are you a boy or a girl", question!