What does "woman" mean in a post-gender world?
 

First off -- much of the world is anything but post-gender, so although I am a proponant of a global persepctive, in this thread I suppose we'd have to look at the "post-gender world" with a somewhat narrower focus.

Do you use the term "woman" as part of your identity?

What does it mean to you to use/not use the term "woman?"

Does tension/discomfort exist for you in using the term "woman" together with butch, femme, queer, or any of your other identity definers? If so, why?

If you do not use the term "woman" how did you come to the decision not to?

How is "woman" different from "female" (and I don't mean in the academic sense, but in the lived experience sense).

What does "woman" mean?

What does "woman" not mean?

There are many other questions that could be asked, and by all means ask them.

Do you use the term "woman" as part of your identity?

Yes

What does it mean to you to use/not use the term "woman?"

It is very empowering for me and makes me feel more connected with other women.

Does tension/discomfort exist for you in using the term "woman" together with butch, femme, queer, or any of your other identity definers? If so, why?

There was a period of time when it didn't seem to quite fit. I have always been very clear that I was not male and have always spoken out strongly against male defaults for butch and been very sure about being female. As I explored my butch identity further, I was feeling butch was a gender into itself for me and that woman didn't really fit because I wasn't like other women. I didn't feel that I had two genders, so I just thought I was butch.

However, I have come to realize that was a mistake for me to not fully embrace woman as part of my gender. It actually robbed me of my strength. I am more about embracing woman now. Butch, woman, female, lesbian all fit together well for me.

If you do not use the term "woman" how did you come to the decision not to?

n/a

How is "woman" different from "female" (and I don't mean in the academic sense, but in the lived experience sense).

I think of female as my biological body, woman is more my sense of self and where I fit in with others in the world.

What does "woman" mean?

It's hard for me to say what woman means. I think woman is what we make it to be. I think butch and femme genders both stretch and expand what woman can be. Maybe I will more to say about this later.

What does "woman" not mean?

My first thought is man.

Do you use the term "woman" as part of your identity?

No.

What does it mean to you to use/not use the term "woman?"

It's a gender definer that does not apply to me.

Does tension/discomfort exist for you in using the term "woman" together with butch, femme, queer, or any of your other identity definers? If so, why?

No.

If you do not use the term "woman" how did you come to the decision not to?

I am a transman with a female bodied historical experience.

How is "woman" different from "female" (and I don't mean in the academic sense, but in the lived experience sense).

Hrmm.. I don't know because I never felt a need to claim woman. It may be a GID issue, however, as I felt no association or tie to "womanness" (although I did envy those that felt empowered by it).

What does "woman" mean?

Strength, power, courage, fierceness, love, hardness, softness, laughter, compassion, leadership.

What does "woman" not mean?

Limited

That is all...

Do you use the term "woman" as part of your identity?

Most definately!

What does it mean to you to use/not use the term "woman?"

It celebrates what I am...a female, a woman, a strong woman. It is a sense of pride, it is a sense of being. It is also appreciating my female body parts which I think are quite nifty.

Does tension/discomfort exist for you in using the term "woman" together with butch, femme, queer, or any of your other identity definers? If so, why?

No. I have always identified as a human, a female, a woman, a lesbian, a butch......in that order. I have ever experienced anything female as being foreign or uncomfortable.....well except maybe for pantyhose.

If you do not use the term "woman" how did you come to the decision not to?

n/a

How is "woman" different from "female" (and I don't mean in the academic sense, but in the lived experience sense).

For me, being a female and a woman is the same thing.

What does "woman" mean?

For me, it is a combination of physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual aspects of being into a unique whole.

What does "woman" not mean?

It means not male/man.

I absolutely agree that we do not actually live in a post-gender world. So I used the term in a narrow, academic sense related to the theoretical deconstructing of the term "woman" that I was encouraging in this thread.

Do you use the term "woman" as part of your identity? It is my identity

What does it mean to you to use/not use the term "woman?" Using the word woman as who I am makes sense for me. It naturally fits me. I have never had anyone misunderstand that or get confused when I use the word.

Does tension/discomfort exist for you in using the term "woman" together with butch, femme, queer, or any of your other identity definers? If so, why?
Only in here. Butch and Femme are genders for some. They are not for me. The use of the word butch and femme mean very different things to different people. Queer does fit with woman for me. As an ID I have settled on that IN HERE. In my personal life, in the real world, around people who use the words in the same way that I do - I do ID differently.

If you do not use the term "woman" how did you come to the decision not to? N/A

How is "woman" different from "female" (and I don't mean in the academic sense, but in the lived experience sense). Female for me is what is between my legs and is my sex. Woman is how I feel inside which nicely matches my outside.

What does "woman" mean? For me it means I'm an adult of the female sex.

What does "woman" not mean? For me it doesn't mean weak, restricted or boxed.

I tried to be a woman, and it didn't work. I tried to be a dyke/lesbian, and I always felt like I was the enemy. Once upon a time, I was a butch, now I'm a guy, and it feels right.

Do you use the term "woman" as part of your identity? yes I am a woman, by my own identity and my own individual definition.
What does it mean to you to use/not use the term "woman?" For myself it means simply...I am a woman, female, and in my case femme. That is of course based on my personal preference.
Does tension/discomfort exist for you in using the term "woman" together with butch, femme, queer, or any of your other identity definers? If so, why? One of the first things I ask when I am beginning to date someone or even talking more indepth as friends, is "how do you prefer to be called". It is so individualized but yet so simple to just ask. I try not to generalize when I use the term "woman".
If you do not use the term "woman" how did you come to the decision not to? If the person I am speaking with doesn't want that used, it's not biggie to me...I leave it up to them and try to satisfy their need in their identity.
How is "woman" different from "female" (and I don't mean in the academic sense, but in the lived experience sense). IMO female is how someone is born, their biological "type". It does not mean that is "who" they are in the inside, just the outside. Again, my opinion. I would never assume a butch wants to be called woman and again wouldn't assume they wouldn't. I just ask before I step where I shouldn't.
What does "woman" mean? to me...female identified, not how one is born.
What does "woman" not mean? I don't know how to answer that one....woman to me does not mean male identified.....

hard questions and gets me thinking a lot. I will stick to asking, always asking and doing my darnest never to "assume" what someone prefers. Lucky I talk a lot i suppose ...lol.

Do you use the term "woman" as part of your identity?

I would look at it as more as something I am, but a huge and important part of my internal identity yes.

What does it mean to you to use/not use the term "woman?"

It means I'm acknowledging for myself women's ability to be, feel and do anything. Acknowledging and standing beside and with what I see as a huge beautiful force of nature that's proven it's strength and power despite and against being cast in the role of weak underdog from day one.

Does tension/discomfort exist for you in using the term "woman" together with butch, femme, queer, or any of your other identity definers? If so, why?

Nope, it has, but it doesn't for me now. As far as any discomfort it came more from outside comments about what it means to be a butch, a woman, a women's place, woman-man jokes and stereotyping of it.

If you do not use the term "woman" how did you come to the decision not to?

I didn't for a while, this is partially why. When I didn't acknowledge it, when it made me flinch I assumed it was because it didn't fit me and was wrong... but letting go proved impossible and I had to step back and examine why it made me flinch instead of just conveniently avoiding the flinch by not claiming it... if I'm making sense.

In the end, some life experiences (as a female as a woman as a butch) that I harbored a lot of ouch and anger over I had turned inward on myself, and the further I got from woman in my head the more secure I felt... more in control and untouchable (not physically) in that sense. I've always been a strong ass peep who nothing ever touched me, but sometimes things subtly change you even when you're busy being a strong ass peep about it. Weird I know. I don't think I can explain it adequately without divulging private stuff I'm not going to do here.

How is "woman" different from "female" (and I don't mean in the academic sense, but in the lived experience sense).

Female is something you're born to... women is something you grow into, a sense of self as being part of a diverse sisterhood and history struggles, victories and losses alike.

What does "woman" mean?

Aside from gender of the female persuasion... for me a person who acknowledges and feels the word's meaning in its past and present internally and a sort of bond with those things plus...

What does "woman" not mean?

It does not mean, weak, submissive, receptacle, possession, second class or even feminine in many cases as we know here.

Posting here or my message will be too short.

I'm trying to follow your logic, but I can't get past the title. There is no place on earth, or in cyberspace, that could be misconstrued as 'post gender'.

I hope I'm not insulting anyone here, but I have no doubt that academics who believe they've facilitated/created/willed into being a 'post gender world' are deluded. There is no place, no language, no circumstance that is not utterly suffused with gender, and assumptions, judgments and injustices based on same.

I'm sure it's interesting to some academics to theorize about some sort of idealised world that is fully populated by people with slippery ambiguous genders defined only by themselves, and where those genders can be as changeable as the phases of the moon. That world exists in the minds of people who have been having fun making it up, kind of like a video game.

If anyone would like to remember what it means to work in the real world with men who have NO gender ambiguity WHATSOEVER, I invite you to visit me in the scene shop.

OK. It's safe to come back out, now. The grouchy old curmudgeon has retired for a nap.

Cheryl -- I'm not a proponent of the term post-gender, as I said above. I just used the term to frame this discussion in this thread. In this little online world we do a lot of what might be considered gender deconstruction. That's what made me think of "post gender." I'm not an academic - so maybe I misused the phrase. Anyway, post-gender is not the important part. Exploring identifying as/with (or not) "woman" is the important part.

I'm interested in hearing your responses to the OP Heart.

Do you use the term "woman" as part of your identity?

I am a woman but I feel like I lean more towards girl, in terms of identity.

What does it mean to you to use/not use the term "woman?"

I guess I've never really thought about it (such as the question is). I feel pride when I address myself and I am addressed as, a woman. Women are beautiful, strong, enduring creatures in this world of savage animals. The word itself....woman....feels gentle and graceful and all the things I have the potential to be. I'm not sure I answered the question as it was intended, but that's what I got in shooting from the hip and not reading any of the preceding answers.

Does tension/discomfort exist for you in using the term "woman" together with butch, femme, queer, or any of your other identity definers? If so, why?

I don't have any discomfort or tension, no. Queer woman feels more natural in my head though.

How is "woman" different from "female" (and I don't mean in the academic sense, but in the lived experience sense).

Besides the obvious examples of a 6 year old being female but not a woman...woman feels more powerful to me than female. I suppose that's due to society's view of females and male privilege and such.

What does "woman" mean?

Strength, beauty, perseverance, responsibility, loyalty, love, competent, daring, fragile, ugly, weak, irresponsibility, disloyalty, hate, incompetency, fearful....it's something different to everyone on different days. I can be all of the above in a single day's time. That is, in my opinion and probably the best descriptor of all, amazing.

What does "woman" not mean?

Again, it's in the perception of each person.

Thank you so much for your post Metro, especially this part. I always think of butch and femme as hard won genders that we make our own. When I read this by you I thought, the same is true for woman. Even though it may be a default gender for females, it is actually one that we make our own too. And there can be a lot of twists and turns when you are butch or don't fit the mold of a typical woman. For a time, I felt like I was a bit on the outside looking in when it came to woman. I don't anymore.

Also, in being a woman, I feel that I am part of a much larger community- with deep historical roots and global in nature. That is a very powerful thing. As I have come back full circle to embrace the woman that is a part of who I am, that has felt very powerful.

Do you use the term "woman" as part of your identity?
i do.


What does it mean to you to use/not use the term "woman?"
Well, it means a continuity with my mother and with the women who i admire. On a very deep level, i have grown into myself by reading about and observing and talking to other women. i have learned to love myself through my admiration and love for other women, many of whom died before i was born. Being a woman is not just my gender. It's my history. i wouldn't be who i am if i hadn't read certain women writers or heard stories about women in history. Brave women, sexual women, smart women. i can't imagine the loss i would feel if i didn't claim woman.



Does tension/discomfort exist for you in using the term "woman" together with butch, femme, queer, or any of your other identity definers? If so, why?
No. i don't use it in combination with other IDs. i am a woman first.

If you do not use the term "woman" how did you come to the decision not to?

How is "woman" different from "female" (and I don't mean in the academic sense, but in the lived experience sense).

Female is just a box on forms.

What does "woman" mean?
i have never had children, so it doesn't mean that to me. It is about my sexuality. i feel like a woman when i have sex. If i don't, i don't have sex with that person anymore.

It's about my body and the way i live in it. Having a period. Having some kinds of strengths and not others.

It's about beauty and comfort and warmth. i associate woman with so many good things. Grace above all. Not that these are exclusive to women, or that any woman without these characteristics is less than women. That's just what woman means to me.



What does "woman" not mean?

i am not sure.

Clarification: This thread and the question it poses rose out of other threads/discussions in the gender/labels/identities forum, particularly a discussion about pronouns that evolved in the "men with boobs" thread.

Thanks to all who have answered. :)

Do you use the term "woman" as part of your identity?

Yes, unequivocally. My gender is woman (not femme).

What does it mean to you to use/not use the term "woman?"

I have always identified as/with women, but that identification has morphed, grown, changed, and deepened over the years as my own awareness and activism on behalf of women as a group has grown.

Does tension/discomfort exist for you in using the term "woman" together with butch, femme, queer, or any of your other identity definers? If so, why?

I do experience some tensions, yes. The term woman is weighted with assumptions that can feel rigid and limiting to me. Some of what woman conjures are things I am not always comfortable identifying with, even when they are things that are part of me -- submission, yielding, softness, motherhood, for example. Traditional notions of womanhood are rooted in the kind of sexism and misogyny that results in oppression and huge amounts of violence towards women. The very word “womanhood” can make me cringe because of the narrow oppressive ground/roles upon which it tries to force women to stand; and punishes them if they stray. Being a woman can be dangerous, scary.

If you do not use the term "woman" how did you come to the decision not to?

I never considered not using the term woman. But I do use it very consciously now. I use it in part because it feels natural to me, it is me; but I also use it because I want to claim it, I want to demonstrate that woman can mean queer, old, disabled, single, etc. Woman can be not-mother, not-soft, not-yielding, not-submissive, etc. Woman can be feminine in traditional and non-traditional ways. Woman can also be butch, lesbian, masculine, etc.
How is "woman" different from "female" (and I don't mean in the academic sense, but in the lived experience sense).

I don’t resonate with the word female. It sounds biologically based to me, and although biology is an aspect of gender and identity, and may be analogous to woman in some cases, I actually see/feel distinctions. To me, female feels narrow and concrete, woman feels related to history, to cultural, social, and political contexts that are important to me. Solidarity with diverse women throughout the world who do not have the option to parse their identities is important to me.

What does "woman" mean?

It’s a vast landscape of possibilities, potential, communities, images, visions, wisdom, roles, resistance, courage and power.

What does "woman" not mean?

It does not mean vagina. It does not mean mainstream notions of femininity. It does not mean mother, victim, catty bitch, manipulative, bimbo, bottom, or any expected, coerced, stereotyped role of womanhood. A woman may be these things, but these things are not, ipso facto, what a woman is.

I have noticed that I am not the only one who feels that using the term “woman” connects me to a history, exists in a context that has to do with culture and politics. While woman can simply be a fact, it is also, for me, a politicized identity.

By post-gender, I meant a world in which there is no longer any reason to politicize a gender identity. And no, we do not live in that world. Not when it comes to women.

I will be post-gender in the post-patricarhy.

Thank you for this great thread Heart!

Do you use the term "woman" as part of your identity?

I identify as a woman

What does it mean to you to use/not use the term "woman?"

Not using the term woman to describe myself means that I would neglect a part of my identity (but got to remind people that identity is not only defined by gender... my gender is only a part of who I am)

Does tension/discomfort exist for you in using the term "woman" together with butch, femme, queer, or any of your other identity definers? If so, why?

I don't feel any discomfort since I don't use butch, femme or queer to define myself. I prefer to use the word homosexual or lesbian when it comes to my orientation. I also don't see any dichotomy with the word woman and butch, woman and femme or woman and queer.


How is "woman" different from "female" (and I don't mean in the academic sense, but in the lived experience sense).

Because homo sapiens sapiens is an animal species using sexual reproduction, female describe, in most cases, a physiological and anatomical state of the body. It is usually the phenotype expressed from the XX genes. ( I said USUALLY!!!! which means not always ).

As Simone de Beauvoir wrote in Le deuxième sexe: "On ne naît pas femme: on le devient." Which can be translated by: One is not born a woman: one becomes a woman. (N.B: the word sexe in french has both the meaning of sex and gender). So yes, being a woman differs from being a female because gender is based on a social and cultural construct. Being a woman in Québec is very different from being a woman in Burkina Faso...

What does "woman" mean?

Woman means what I made, make and will make of it. The sky is the limit.

What does "woman" not mean?

Woman does NOT mean: weak, feeble, non assertive, passive, over sensitive, .... But that is MY definition of woman.

It can mean a lot.

Interesting to see this thread come back up now in a world where a self confessed rapist is our president and I'm trying to find a disinfectant strong enough to rinse out my brain after reading about Harvey Weinstein's decades of raping women with impunity. I can just see the conversation now, and it's quite droll. 'Oh, no Mr. Weinstein. You wouldn't really want to rape me since I don't identify as a woman.'

Whether or not I agree with their assessment, (which, as it happens I do), I am seen as a woman by would-be rapists, and everyone else, wherever I go. Most of us are seen as women, even most butch women. It might be because I didn't get enough sleep and I'm even crankier than usual, but even as an academic exercise, it seems increasingly odd to claim this is a 'post gender world' when it's not even a post gender nation. Heck, NYC isn't even a post gender city. Neither is San Francisco, and they're a lot closer to genderless over there than we will ever be here on the E Coast. I'm still using my old school gender, thank-you-very-much, so I don't appreciate it when someone tells me my gender has gone out of fashion.

Do you use the term "woman" as part of your identity?

Yes

What does it mean to you to use/not use the term "woman?"
I id as a butch woman.I take pride in my masculinity and being my own unique woman self.Strangers who never seen or been in the presence of a butch woman,after seeing me, either walk away amazed or disgusted.

Does tension/discomfort exist for you in using the term "woman" together with butch, femme, queer, or any of your other identity definers? If so, why?

No

How is "woman" different from "female" (and I don't mean in the academic sense, but in the lived experience sense).
A woman is a human being and a female is an animal.Knowing the difference between the two is a good skill to have because some people like to think of themselves as animals and like to be treated like animals.I was born a girl and now I'm a woman.I like to be treated like a human being,show some respect.

What does "woman" mean?

A woman means real power and tenderness.Its always been something I wanted to be and be around.

What does "woman" not mean?

It does not mean being a victim.Fight back!

Do you use the term "woman" as part of your identity?

Well, I primarily indetify as lesbian, and that implies being a woman, so sure!

What does it mean to you to use/not use the term "woman?"

It's the very core , the soul of who I am - and always have been, please note! I may have been born with male bits but men always were and are alien to me, men are "them" whilst women are "like me", "us"

Does tension/discomfort exist for you in using the term "woman" together with butch, femme, queer, or any of your other identity definers? If so, why?

Nope, none whatsoever!

If you do not use the term "woman" how did you come to the decision not to?

-

How is "woman" different from "female" (and I don't mean in the academic sense, but in the lived experience sense).

It's the experience of being on the wrong end of patriarchal expectations of us for being female (or if you want to be pedantic about it, for my being clearly not-male conforming when young, then obviously female when older); it's also that sense of sisterhood, of community with other women knowing they've shared many similar trials and tribulations to yourself simply because we are women. It's also in a very hard to define way a way of viewing and thinking about the world, too. It often seems to me that men very literally are not living in the same experiential world as us (and I'm not simply talking about male privilege etc here)!

What does "woman" mean?

Caring, Loving, Strong, Enduring, Powerful, Expressive, Confident, Wonderful, Glorious!

What does "woman" not mean?

Slave to the shackles of patriarchal expectations of us, as far too many women worldwide still are, sadly