When you turn out the lights...
 

Hi people. So, this thing happened yesterday and i would like to check in with folks to see what you think...

i was in a meeting of hets & queers of all kinds (regarding kinky things :) )
and in response to a question about the role of queer women of color a white dyke said: "when you turn out the lights it's all the same."
And everyone laughed in agreement and moved on.

Does anyone have a reaction they would care to share about this?

thank you:rrose:

as a white lesbian I find that comment insulting to POC. Its the white elitist concept that color wont matter if you overcome white prejudices by fucking in the dark. If they close their (white) eyes, color wont bother them. Arent POC lucky? (said sarcastically) things in the dark, dark things, can be secret dirty little things...

people with white asses need to know their shit shines in the dark if they open their mouths and say crap like this....

I have heard enough white people say things like that to make me burn everytime I hear it resaid. What is even more bothersome is that those who say it think this is their way of giving their stamp of White Approval. When in fact, it stamps THEM as being White Elitist....

:hammer::toothache::toothache::beatcomputer::fudd: :flyingpig::thefinger::bomb::explode:

*I*have nothing to say :poc-angry:

"when you turn out the lights it's all the same."

LOL That's some racist ass shit right there.

Also what is this role that queer POC are supposed to have? Should I be doing something that I don't know about? How should I prep for my role? Am I getting paid for this role?

Then the lights come on and OH NO!!! It's a POC run!!! wtf? :poc-shocked: lol

But you know what they say once you go black you never go back...:|

I agree with softness....PPL who say this crap need to grow up,this is 2010.

Organic and Gemme..Im sorry u had to read this crap anywhere, muchless hear.

I would disagree with you, Gemme, because while the white person who said this might have "meant" that color doesnt matter in the dark, that we are all the same in the dark, what I heard is that the darkness brings "up" what is "down" and "down" what is "up" and equalizes the standards of equality between races.

Said from the up position...people in the down position could feel very downed by these words.

Why?

I am not a POC but I am a plain woman and I have to tell you how insulting it is to me when someone says they are all the same in the dark when they refer to physical beauty. I am not an American Standard of Beauty Barbie Doll. I am indeed,a plain woman. I am not needing any "oh but your beauty is in the inside" comments. I know I am beautiful outside the realm of the American Standards of Beauty. Dont need stroking. But it pisses me off when people say plain women are as good as beautiful women in bed when the lights are off because this further defines me as not beautiful in its attempt to make me beautiful. It actually defeats its purpose.

Same with fucking a POC in the dark is the same as fucking a white woman in the Dark. It DOESNT equalize them. It further defines them as inequals.

Gemme--did you just change your location?! *giggles*

To all: thanks for your thoughts. i needed the check because i was, as usual, the only person of color in the room, and the only femme to boot, and prior to the comment i describe above, a different butch made a remark about queers not "passing" in society. I had to remind the room that i was a femme (surprised looks ALL AROUND) and that i usually pass (unless i try really hard NOT to). sigh.

Anyway, made me think maybe i was being overly sensitive....thanks for the reality check :) :rrose:

*hangs head a bit*

No, Corkey, i did not.

The setting was a group of kinksters and i am a submissive and new to the group. The speaker is a Master...i am certain there is a way i *could* have done it...but truly, i was so astounded and then in further shock when the laughter came...i could not figure out how to get it done.
(maybe i'll cross post to bdsm thread...)

Deeper...its a shame that when you struggle to have your reality confirmed, you feel you are being oversensitive. We as a rainbow community still struggle with inclusion. In theory its regarded but in reality its so very hard to practice as a group mentality. We will get there someday and it is people like you, who sit in the masses and speak out so that differences arent slid under the table and made invisible.

Aesop said its easy to be brave from a safe distance. I thank you for walking in our own ranks and dispelling notions about who we think we are. Unless we face ourselves, we will never know how great we truly are....

I can see your pov. It makes absolute sense.

I was just making the point that none of us were there, short of deeper and she was asking for our opinions (and since this was a new group for her), so we don't truly know what was in the speaker's heart. At the very least, it was incredibly insensitive.

*laughs*

I did. I'm in Austin, TX now. :)

It's hot. :blink:

It sounds like, to me, they are a pretty close knit group and so you, as a new member (and perhaps because of your submissive nature), they would not place the same weight in your words as that of the Master speaker.

Perhaps at another time you could approach the speaker and ask for clarification? I'm not in the scene and don't really know the nuances and the more discreet protocols so maybe another member could do so if you are not able to.

I'd like to think that this group is good for you and a place where you could feel welcomed and safe. Unfortunately, I'm not getting that feeling right now. Of course, it's only because of this thread and especially your last post. It feels to me as if they don't see you.

I genuinely hope I am wrong. I hope that that particular speaker, though a Master, doesn't wield the majority of the power in the group. I get a squinchy feeling when I think someone in that place, with potential power over others, saying things like that.

do not hang your head.

You are learning how to walk amongst them and they caught you off guard. Now you can expect this to happen again, if not here, in another group setting. Now you have words to speak and support you needed. Indeed, you will only truly let yourself down if you do not speak out next time. I say this because it bothers you that you remained silent.

Furthermore,

A submissive is a person of incredible power and strength. Their gift of surrender honors who they serve. They are not doormats. Everyone should turn and listen to you because you are a submissive POC. Dont let others speak for you. Speak loudly for yourself.

Being a Master doesnt mean they are God. Not to you. If your words were not to be spoken and listened to, why were you/submissive/POC invited?

Deeper,
These are the types of things said, IMHO and experience, by white "liberals" (as opposed to "progressive", or more informed thinkers). The often seen *satisfied* expression on their faces is a reflection of their (delusional) *good deed*, and their interior pat on the back.

I find approaching people who think these ways problematic SOMETIMES. Other times, sitting down with them privately and telling them that what they said, and I am sure to point out that they meant well (I think in a misguided sense, they do), what they said is a problem, and explain why.

There is the funny, yet very damning utterance by Organic. WHEN the lights are off begs the question of WHEN they are on. Moreover, the statement falls into that faulty homogeneity of "same"ness. And, we are not all the same.

Corkey is damn right. Being a submissive does not mean that you have to be silent while being publicly humiliated about your race. And, since I don't run with the herd in the life, I don't think that you should take it by your Top/Owner either unless you've negotiated this ahead of time. This is simply My opinion ...

not a doormat
 

Corkey, softness, Waxnrope, et al:
Thank you for all of the thoughts, it is very appreciated.
(no, i am not in service to that person).
Please know that i am well aware that subs are not doormats and that i have the "right" to call people on their sh*t. However, given the dynamics, this was more complicated to do in practice yesterday, at least to me it was so....

noted...and understood. We do not expect you to do more than what you did. There is no shame being passed over you...in fact, I am proud of you for coming here and asking for clarification and support...

I know this is an old question, wanted to answer though.
 

I've heard this expression in various forms. Usually as in, "underneath our skin, we are all the same.".

I'm white as all hell, and I've heard lots of white people say it, but never a person of color(in my experience). What "same" were we referring to? Whose "same" were we all going to become? I take offense to the comment because it seems to say, "underneath your skin(or when the lights are out and I can't see you), I will consider you equal to a white person.". And that's some smelly bullshit.

that was a deformed thought-
 

Sounds like the idiot tried to make a really bad funnie
Don't take it to heart Deeperstill ~ even ignorant people are allowed to form sentences

When the lights are turned out
 

I am not white but have learned it is best to educate them not get angry

As a POC, I think that is true. I mean, on the outside, we may look different, but biologically and in attitudes, we are all the same. I think you all need to lighten up. If they were saying something offensive or dismissive I would agree with you, but it's not offensive. It's true. I think that 100 years ago if someone said said something like that, it would have been taken as super permissive towards POC culture, and now it's too close minded?
Also, it's a joke.

*end rant*

All of the -isms don't magically go away when you turn out the lights. As a POC, this statement makes my blood boil...