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Clothes do not Maketh the butch ....
Or do they ?
How important is clothing to you ? |
clothes do not make the femme
or do they it matters to some it doesn't matter to some it is individual i am to busy worrying about being me to worry about what others think about me |
Butch is a gender no? The shell does not represent gender, that's just me
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People argue with me here butch is a look not a gender, I also get told I chose to be this way .. :sunglass:
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Merlin, clothes don't make anyone any gender, one is who one is and those who can't or wont accept you for you need a checklist for their own BS. K?
We all are who we are and those who matter could give a rats ass, and those who don't, you don't give a second thought to. SSWA (so say we all). You be the best HUMAN you can and to hockey pucks what anyone else thinks. |
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I prefer to be wearing some. :| Bending minds ~ Shapeshifting theories. It's up to all of us to bury those rusty ways of thinking. :deepthoughts: I mean, unless I am walking around covered in a box, I prefer not to be placed in one either; so actively challenging the antiquated theories that have managed to spill over into this day and age is surely one way to keep things interesting. :coffee: My attire and general appearance is a style all it's own. :vampirebat: Makes me shudder to think that the way a shirt buttons up the front, left or right...can pull the weight of judgement from society. :dots: Lots of thoughts on this, but it'll have to wait...as mah schedule is full of :ohm: today. :weedsmoke: :daywalker: |
Clothes don't make you a butch...plenty that defy that based on their own personal style (or lack of style <g>), or their gender bending wearing both male and female clothes, or however it works for them, etc. Not all butches want to wear ties or boxer briefs or whatever you might use as the barometer to measure "butchness".
In the leather community we can spot s/m folks---yeah, in this case stands for stand and model s/m rather than actual leather folk. Leather folks don't all own leather clothing and leather clothing certainly does not make you a leather community person or someone that understands what earning one's leathers means. Rope-- |
I have never passed up a gift because of the gift wrap. If my S/O treats me well. they can certainly dress as they desire. Now, if they specifically ask me to shop for them/dress them, I will certainly do so. I have dated a few women who prefer that I do the shopping simply because I liked to do it and they would rather not.
As a femme, I have had plenty of times that I was judged because of my appearance. I would not, have not and refuse to do the same. |
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They have to me doc.
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Really Merlin? I can't say I've ever heard that from any of the bf community I know here. |
Even if the whole world were suddenly forced to wear tinfoil jumpsuits every day for the rest of eternity, butches would still be butches. Same with everyone else continuing to be whatever they might identify as. Butch is an identity, not a pair of jeans or a hair cut.
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My take on clothing is I refuse to look like a slob. Unless of course I am out working on the bike or car or mowing the lawn. I dress neatly. Period. I will not wear clothes with holes, no matter how trendy it might be. I prefer men's button shirts, not because they are men's, but because they just fit better. I have long arms and legs, women's clothes do not fit me. I also have no boobs to speak of, so those darts just look silly. Just sayin'.
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In my experience over on this side of the pond, people have said such things--or the equivalent: that a femme cannot wear men's clothing without magically turning herself into a butch--because they have rigid ideas about the meaning of "butch" and "femme." Some people have been open to a discussion and to broadening that definition; some people have used it as a wall of defense to avoid talking about it, a way to categorize and dismiss me. Mostly these days I don't run into such nonsense anymore. Hope it gets better for you, too. |
People sometimes give way too much of their opinion! So sorry people tell you you should dress this way or that. It happened to me too in my younger days, now I just refuse to engage.
Do clothes make the Butch? no. Do I love to be out with a well dressed Butch? Hell yes! :) |
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From the mouths of the greats: Distrust any enterprise that requires new clothes. - Henry David Thoreau It is an interesting question how far men would retain their relative rank if they were divested of their clothes. - Henry David Thoreau Sell your clothes and keep your thoughts. - Henry David Thoreau He also has a great one from Walden where he goes on rant on how it's idiotic that a man is looked down upon if he walks into town with a hole in the knee of his pants, yet if he had a broken leg no one would care. Why does a hole in the knee of his pants speak of his character? It shouldn't. If most of us are ashamed of shabby clothes and shoddy furniture, let us be more ashamed of shabby ideas and shoddy philosophies... It would be a sad situation if the wrapper were better than the meat wrapped inside it. - Albert Einstein In fact, that one just might be new sig material lol Quote:
Cheers, Ender, King of shabby clothing :canadian: |
I can be seen about the neighborhood wearing jammies under mah long black jackets. No socks, slip on Zombie shoes...and barely a rake thru mah mane. :shocking: I clean up good when I care to, but the rest of the time it's all about my comfort. :coffee: Oh, and winter time I wear huge puffy gorilla and talon slippers to the store. :vampirebat: So there. :| :daywalker: |
It's funny, I met up with a gaydargirl I've chatted with for years the other day and she thought it highly amusing, and was surprised for some reason, that I was wearing a pink tshirt. Apparently only girls wear pink! :cheesy:
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Colors are just colors...seeems so silly! |
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Ripped up jeans can be hot. |
Today it's a tee shirt( size matters fishin') and shorts kinda day in mah slippers, I walk to and from the trash cans and all about our yard. I could care less what others think of my get up.
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If I won the Lottery I'd wear ultra smart bespoke clothing day in day out. As I'm a poor student I keep my good suits for best and wear regular 501's or cargo troosers/shorts and tshirts with a hoody or some such rather a lot. Does that make me an 'un' genderqueer-poof? I think lots of us on the male end of the spectrum (wherever that is for you personally) tend to dress thus on a day to day basis. It's clean and pressed but not 'smart' that's all.
Then when we need to we scrub up mighty fine! :groucho: |
One of the hottest butches i have been with wore cargo pants, t-shirts, and hoodies much of the time. God, nothing like a sleeveless t-shirt on a butch. .
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Where does one shop to get these shells? And me thinking skinny jeans and Harley boots would do. |
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Are you makin' an effort at being witty? |
Clothes really matter to me. I'm an unrepentant Dandy.
Clothes help me to define myself and who I am in the world. Whether we like it or not, our clothing signals to others certain things about who we are. Femmes I know would look pretty silly in the kind of clothing I prefer - because it just doesn't fit who they are. Whether I'm wearing jeans, Tshirt and leather jacket, suit with button down shirt, or a mixture of tailored women's and men's clothing, it always looks just butch enough for me to feel comfortable with. Clothing is our second skin - so I always want to feel comfortable in my skin. |
Clothes don't define who we are. They are but a expression of our outer shell. I am a human being, I wear cloths that I am comfortable in. Period.
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I don't find anything "silly" about a femme who chooses to wear certain clothing?
Can you clarify what you meant? |
I have to share this here about clothes......
There's 2 very nice people I know at work. One is a guy I work with and the Lady is one of my nurse friends who works over on the Psych ward. I recently have been playing "matchmaker" between these two because I think they'd get on famously together. Both have wonderful personalities and they're both Creole, from the Texas/Louisiana areas. They like the same foods, the same kinds of music and they come from similar cultures and backgrounds, so what's not to love??? :winky: Now, the woman...my friend Pauline, is a really outgoing, kind, caring and social person and she has this wild 'n crazy sense of humor. She's a dear woman to her very core!! When I was first telling them each about the other, Pauline turns and says to me, about Joe: "He better not be wearing no K-Mart clothes!!!" :| Bah ahahahahahahahaha Just WHAT, exactly, are "K-Mart clothes"???? :| People are funny. :huhlaugh: ~Theo~ :bouquet: |
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I don't get that either Snow. My wife could wear a pair of jeans, t-shirt and leather jacket and rock the hella out of them and was still just as femme as she was when wearing a dress or business suit. That statement was kinda silly in and of itself I think. |
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And, on topic, I don't think that clothing has to be limited by the person's gender identity, or other identities. But, doesn't it usually say something about how the person prefers to present themselves to the world? And, don't people usually want to be "gotten" and understood? I'm no less of a femme in jeans and a t-shirt, because who I am shows through the clothing. At the same time, unlike my partner, I buy all my clothing in the women's department. She enjoys her masculinity and likes to be identified with it. She'll be unlikely to ever wear a dress or high heels. |
Clothes are just clothes. Or are they?
In some senses they reflect an inner identity I think. How we wear them and our choices of what to wear do reflect in my opinion an internal state of mind. Now just because I think that does not mean I have judgement around what that internal state of mind may be and how it's expressed (i.e. I really don't judge what you wear but I may not be attracted to it either). It's a nice idea to think we as a society do not make judgements about appearance but in fact we use those judgements to discriminate every day. As a femme, I'm often and regularly seen as non-lesbian out in the world simply based on appearance. I need to interact differently to make the less obvious distinguishing parts of my identity clear. So if you want to be "seen" as a butch, there are certainly markers that others look for. Clothing can be one of them. It's not the only one however. |
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Well... There's always the TMNT look:) |
I like clothes.
I like "dapper" looking clothes and casual clothes. I have this weird thing about "wasting" clothes, though. If I am not going anywhere I only want to wear crappy, worn out clothes around the house b/c I don't want to get the "good ones", dirty. "Good ones" are defined by how much I like the clothes, not the newness, "quality" or "dressiness" of them. It really doesn't have to do with not wanting to do laundry, either. I don't know what it is about. Weird. :blink: |
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Nope, there are the good cloths to go out in then the indoors garb then the work cloths, last but not least the camping/fishing cloths. As always your mileage may vary. |
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@Legendryder: Yes, heaven forbid you date a "messy woman." That might cause the sky to fall and all. Fuck, if I only befriended people based on their appearance and how they kept their house I'd be missing out on the most interesting people I've ever met. But hey, do what you like. I just think that kind of prejudice isn't helpful for society as a whole. I prefer to judge people on what they have to say or who they are as people. |
I must say here that I've always had a love/hate relationship with clothes. Speaking strictly for me, I have never wanted to wear female ID clothes. Even when I could have had that dream job/promotion, I would'nt accept it. The same goes for schools, people, etc. A hot date who expected me to look femme for special occassions was likewise shot down, along with the entire relationship. Clothes are also my pride and joy, and clothes defined an important aspect of me, or I could have had a bigger pension. So for better or worse,, clothes have been a huge part of my life-style and Did have a hand in trying to braketh or maketh this Stonebutch.
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