Stone Femme?
 

After reading the Stone Butch thread, I decided that maybe we could open the door to discuss what it means to be a Stone Femme. And if the guys wish to participate, tell us what it is about a Stone Femme that gets you. I will start by copying and pasting my post from the Stone Butch thread.

The very first time I heard the term, I thought, "OK. They must smoke a lot of weed." I asked that question, and was very fortunate to have someone in my life who gently laughed and said, "No." When hy explained things to me, it made sense to me, but I also felt a curious mixture of excitement and repulsion. I told hym that I needed some time to digest what hy said. I understood why I was excited, but I couldn't wrap my head around why I was repulsed. After a couple of days and some serious searching, I came to the conclusion that it was too hetero. I was dedicated to my lesbian sex. I explained all of this to hym, and we agreed friends would be best. There was a nagging, deep feeling I couldn't shake about it all, though. I approached hym and asked hym to show me. And good God-Almighty, did hy ever! Things were so profound that I could no longer say that I was lesbian. I had been "flipped," as it were.

It has been many years since that story, and I have learned that there is no predescribed definition. I have met stones who are hardcore no you don't touch me except for my back to stones who don't look at their biological sex as something other than a mini cock that should be worshiped. I think the point for me is that I am who I am. I am a pleaser and giver and a receiver. What all those mean depends on the relationship and what is agreed to and at any point agreements can change because there are no set rules for me.

My answer, copied and pasted from the Stone Butch thread:


Because I'm a stonefemme my ideal partner would be a stone butch. My late gf was nearly stone, so it worked out very well for us. She allowed a certain amount of touching under some rare circumstances, but it wasn't common for her to be very interested in that sort of thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lillith
"... There was a nagging, deep feeling I couldn't shake about it all, though. I approached hym and asked hym to show me. And good God-Almighty, did hy ever! Things were so profound that I could no longer say that I was lesbian. I had been "flipped," as it were.

...I have met stones who are hardcore no you don't touch me except for my back to stones who don't look at their biological sex as something other than a mini cock that should be worshiped."


I don't see why being a stonefemme, or a stone butch for that matter, means that we aren't lesbians. My late gf IDed as such, and I certainly do, too. She was an old school butch who IDed as a lesbian, stone butch, butch dyke, and/or leatherdyke top. All of those IDs were female to her, and she didn't feel compelled to call herself anything other than a woman. A very, VERY butch woman. She had a vagina and a clit, just like any other woman. Being stone meant that she was the pitcher. My stonefemme nature means I'm the catcher. No more, no less.

I'm a lesbian and my sex is stone sex. I assume that no one on this site is going to be foolish enough to tell me that I'm not a lesbian because I'm a stonefemme.

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Lilth, I'm not devaluing your experience, but I have to say that I'm persistently astonished that there are so many people who think that stone can't be lesbian. I agree that many have a vision of 'typical' lesbian sex which involves taking turns doing the same things to each other in an egalitarian way. I don't think I know many lesbians who actually have sex based on that model. Each person and every combination of people tends to do 'it' and each other however they most enjoy it. The sex act doesn't define who is a lesbian, but the gender of the participants in said act might.

Hey, Cheryl. Lets move this discussion here? I, again, agree with you. There are many variables to defining any kind of ID, including one's gender. Like I said in the Stone Butch thread, I simply wanted to express my experience and what I can encountered.

I have heard various definitions of stone femme, so I am wondering what it means for you ladies.

I didn't know that 'stonefemme' was an ID until a friend told me that I was one. I had been struggling mightily with some really horrible guilt about what I couldn't do in bed. When I finally spoke about it out loud to my friend she was not only non-judgmental, she gave me a key that helped me finally understand something essential about myself. It wasn't an easy ID for me to claim at first.

My own manifestation of stonefemme is very much a part of my leather sexuality. I'm a masochist, and sexually submissive. As I noted above, I'm strictly a catcher, never a pitcher. That's very much tied up with sexual submission for me.

Yeah I only pitch and don't catch, so I hear ya. I used to ID as a stone butch, but now that I know myself better as a transguy, there really isn't an ID to go along with it it seems. No one really talks about being a stone transguy, that I have heard.

Many of the transmen I know are "stone" while exploring their sexuality in relation to their transition. Although they may not identify as such, their behavior and discomfort with manipulation of their genitalia suggests a stone mindset.

Okay, so I'm going to come right out and be blunt about this since I"m confused and need a straight answer about this. I apologize for any discomfort my brevity may cause, but I can assure you I am coming from a place of curiosity and not animosity.


So, a stone butch is one who does not want physical stimulation of their genitals, and a stone femme is someone who receives genital stimulation but does not stimulate their partner genitally. Is this correct?


What if there is a butch or a femme who doesn't want to give or receive stimulation?

I agree 100%. I have always employed this practice when I begin to explore things with a new partner. I would rather ask than possibly insult. Besides, I think it takes the stress off someone when you say "please tell me how you prefer for me to touch or not touch you" rather than wait for them to broach the subject. There are ways to ask that are not mood breakers and I think those few moments spend make for a more fulfilling experience.

:sparklyheart:

Thank you for this response. Admittedly, I ask and explore with partners as that ends with less disappointment and frustration so don't worry, I promise I'm not tromping all over people's comfort levels.

As I was reading this thread I kept seeing over and over people saying "when I found out I was a stone femme" or "when I learned what these words meant" but there wasn't any sort of explanation of what that meant for those of us who weren't quite sure. I didn't know if there was some magical definition out there that I hadn't found yet.

The simplest, most common understanding of stonefemme is that we don't penetrate our partners. Stonefemmes will often be unable to perform typical oral sex on their partner, but giving a blow job on their partner's butch cock is usually just fine. Stonefemmes often can't touch their partners breasts or chest in a 'feminising' way.

As Gemme mentioned above, there are also femme women who are stone just as a butch would be stone. They are the pitcher, and they don't catch. They are Stone Femmes. Yes, this is terribly confusing, and I've been agitating for a change in nomenclature for years.

Okay, so in this particular context, what are you using "pitcher" and "catcher" to connote?


Thank you all for being so patient. I know it can be frustrating or uncomfortable to try and explain something as individualized as interpretation of one's sexual tendencies in the context of a label.

I am so stealing "pleasure balls"... very enlightening thread, sorry for the derail.

Thank you :byebye:

No more beating around the bush ( so-to-speak!)
 

As always, I speak for myself & my own experiences:

For 10 years my Stone Butch would not allow me to perform oral sex on her. Fucking her or touching her breasts were out of the question. She did feel comfortable masturbating in front of/with me.

I guess during this time I could have been considered a stone femme but it was not my own true sexual identity. Oh god, here goes: I love to eat pussy & I missed it somewhat but there were other obvious benefits in my relationship.

During our 11th year, she was a little tipsy & somehow I wound up fucking her & she liked it but it was a very, very rare experience thereafter and she never wanted to discuss it. It just did not fit with her own sexual identity or self-image. That was OK with me.

Did I love doing it-yes I did! Maybe I have a smidgen of femme top in me but that does not feel comfortable for me at all in my own self-image. I am open to just about anything but am not overtly aggressive sexually. I feel very shy sexually really and have to feel totally comfortable and safe with my sexual partner in order to let myself go. That letting go is very, very hard for me. Stems from my puritanical, rigid upbringing I am sure.

How can I be open to anything on one hand but am never the one to "make the moves"? I have no idea, if you can figure that one out, I'd be glad to know.

I really do hope it is OK to be so honest. I have no idea why I am-scares me a little. The Internet is forever. I just have not found so many like-minded souls before & at least for now, it is bubbling out of me. I think I better put a cork in it.

Personally, I'd rather you not limit yourself in your responses. I appreciate the honesty and sometimes processing it through writing can be very healing. Thank you for sharing, I am getting quite a bit of insight here.

I love this description. Thank you, again, for being so patient and thorough with your answers (I will not run away with the innuendo that could so easily be put into that sentence). I am no stranger to the terms we are using, I'm just playing stupid, in a sense, so that I may understand how we are all using them in relation to ourselves.

You're quite right, everyone's interpretation of the words is different, so how can I share what it means to me in the context of conversation? For now I'm just going to keep asking questions so I can be sure of exactly what the poster is intending to convey. :)

Also, I'm a fan of the "pleasure balls" analogy.

Morning, gang!

Gemme, you are priceless. You are answers are eloquent and beautiful!
Andy, I am sure that no one will get frustrated with your questions; they seem honest and sincere.

OK, so being a Stone Femme means to me that I do not cross any boundaries that are established in a sexual, and/or emotional way. In other words, we all deserve a safe place to explore and by creating that space, I know that my guy feels good about what hy/he/etc. is doing. It is cycle, ya know. If he feels good, then he will want to make me feel good (emotionally, mentally, physically, and sexually), and that further encourages me to want to make him feel good. I know that this seems pretty common sense, but really, in a Stone's world, this can often be neglected. So for me, being Stone Femme is not just about sexual does and don'ts, its about acknowledging the whole person, not just ID. This part of my answer is also in response to Andy's questions.

You are gravy, sister! When I first found dash, I was the same way. Hell, I still probably talk too much...lol. Don't ever let anyone try to silence you either. I have not ran across that kind of attitude here on the planet, but there are other places that people will try to get you to shut up. Keeping speaking your truth no matter who has an opinion about it.

What's "dash"?

Don't feel bad because you love to eat pussy. I love to eat pussy too!! :cheesy:

Actually, every person should respect every other person's sexual/emotional boundaries. Everyone has boundaries. Those boundaries can change depending on who is in the bed or not change.

For many/most? Stone Butch is about no vaginal penetration (and perhaps no anal penetration) and breasts are not breasts, but are a chest. I think it's a mixed bag concerning blow jobs and the 'little cock' (the clit), but it is in the mind set that it's a blow job not sucking a clit. I have never known a Stone Butch (or Stone Femme Top) who turned down a blow job on the 'big cock'.

Stone Femmes (who are bottoms) generally balk at wearing a cock or vaginally penetrating any Butch with their fingers. Anal is a mixed bag. It's a mixed bag about blow jobs on the little cock, but definitely a go for the big cock. Touching nipples on the chest is also a mixed bag, but I have never met a stone femme who would cup a breast in their hand to suck the nipple. It's a different kind of touch for nipples on a chest.

I am completely Stone big cock identified in kink space. In non-kink space, my sexual boundaries are entirely dependent on the femme in my (her) bed and the energy between us.

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'dash' is a reference to another butch/femme website that many many many of us frequented before this big ass planet was created....there is a dash (-) in the name.

Good information above, Toughy. I would only like to add that there are some Stone Butches where no vaginal touching/no chest touching whatsoever occurs. Just as there are Stone Femmes who do not participate in any vaginal/chest touching of Stone Butches.

Oh, and there are certainly both butches and femmes who do not like penetration, but do not identify as Stone...it is just something they don't particularly care for (just thought I would throw that out there before a non stone, non penetrating person takes offense!).

Yes, respect sexual boundaries. Otherwise, one could become to what really amounts to a rapist (butch, femme, or otherwise). We are all different and all have every right to refuse any kind of touch/sexual act that we want to refuse. Without being questioned, manipulated, or judged.

Boundaries and comfort zones are important for all of us to identify personally and not be afraid to make known to lovers.

Thank you
 

I truly appreciate the feedback, dialogue, perspectives & knowledge shared in this thread:) Thanks to all also for being so open with parts of yourselves that are so very personal.

Ok. I ventured into this thread...
 

Thank you all for your input. Toughy, Dapper, very helpful indeed, thanks!!!

I'm all for respecting boundaries and giving pleasure within what is enjoyable to whomever I am partnered with. I think it's important that it was brought up in this thread, and I'm really glad we're all on the same page about that.

As for "dash", that's hilarious to me because I originally signed up over there before the "p" stood for planet. Silly me, not putting two and two together to make four!

It appears there is much for me to examine about myself in relation to others and the dynamics of touch. Sure I've thought about it, but I've never really stopped to examine in depth the reasons for the emotions and feelings that I have about it. Good thread, all!

Reciprocal sex is not the only type of sex that lesbians engage in. Lesbians are not the only people who engage in reciprocal sex. Lesbians' sex lives are just as varied as any other group of people- they can be kinky, vanilla, stone, not stone, like/don't like oral sex, penetration, etc. There are stone butch lesbians and stone femme lesbians.

my Ms is a stone femme, until She's not. Wink wink

"The true feminist deals out of a lesbian consciousness whether or not she ever sleeps with women."
{Audre Lorde}


"There are people that very strongly identify themselves as gay or lesbian, and then I think there are a lot of people who are kind of some percentage or some version of that. "
{Michael Stipe}

I appreciate your thoughts and whatever you just don't care to do certainly is a boundary you need to have respected.

I feel like you are making some generalizations about lesbian sex and stereotyping us. I certainly don't have a predetermined and narrow interpretation of what lesians always do. I haven't stuck to one and only one way of enjoying sex through all my years of lesbianism. Sex is fluid and can evolve. Identifying as a butch woman has not changed this at all for me.

Absolutely, sexual boundaries need to be respected. Stereotyping segments of the entire queer spectrum based upon what you individually have experienced and putting it into negative language (that is how this feels to me) is troublesome. As troublesome as when I see someone stereotyping or making negative judgements of a stone person. I am very careful as a non-stone individual to not make statements that could offend those that are stone and not generalize about stone sexuality.

Yes, it does sound like I'm generalizing, and perhaps I am. I apologize for that, it was not my intention. The intention was not so much for 'generalizing', but to express *my* personal feelings and experiences, and the way *I* perceive them. My personal feelings are mine - I am not trying to speak for others. Perhaps I am coming across too adamantly strong and/or 'narrow' - but, it's the way I feel for *me*. It is neither right nor wrong, it is only right for me. I may be mistaken, but I believe the intention of this thread was to get feedback on our personal opinion of what we thought a 'stonefemme' to be.

Femme gives butch a blow job, butch fucks femme with cock. Butch goes down on femme, femme gives butch a blow job. Both look like 'you do me, I do you' as far as I can tell.

Huh? No wonder so many folks think 'stone' is not right with these kinds of statements. Every stone femme I know touches and feels up the stone butch they are with. Sex would be boring beyond belief if a stone femme just laid there and did not touch me.

I want to know what an 'ideal' lesbian looks like and what they do in bed. I have been in bed with a bunch and I mean a bunch of lesbians. I have no idea what the 'ideal' 'lesbian' does. I have had plenty of sex with lesbians that was not reciprocal 'everything'. Oh yeah............I am a lesbian although I don't particularly like the word, but it fits.

I just wish this stereotyping would stop. Stereotyping stone sexuality and lesbian sexuality does not work well.

Hey, cinderella. Thanks for your comments. You are getting feedback on your personal opinion. This thread was started because I find that a lot of focus tends to be on Stone Butch, and what that means; I wanted to discuss what it means to be a Stone Femme. Like a Stone Butch ID, I think that being a Stone Femme is just as open to personal interpretation. You are right when you say that there is no right or wrong answer; however, you go on to contradict yourself by saying your way is right. All I know is that my stone fluctuates and changes depending on my partner's needs, wants, and desires. I do have one hard no, and that is vaginal penetration (giving). I am open to the possibilities of everything else (and goodness there is a ton of everything else). Let me make this also very clear, my identity is not based on my partner's. It is important to me that I be proactive in my own needs, wants, and desires because I am a giver, a pleaser and want to share as much intimacy and sex with my love as much as possible. I am stone, but not made of stone.