Adult Children Moving Home
 

never thought it would happen, but...
 

Jelli I think it is hard anytime you have a family member move in with you, not just an adult child. However yes my son came back home for a short period when he was 24. I told him the rules were still the same as always. He stayed about 2 months and got a job and moved out. I've always been a strict parent and they know I mean business and I command their respect.

Enough is enough...
 

Since there is no baby on the way (if I read it right) then ask them to move out. Make sure your son is taking responsibility for birth control, she does not seem capable, and might keep trying to get pregnant to tie him to her still. He should have insisted she pee on the stick and prove the pregnancy before marrying her, but....water under the bridge now. Make sure he keeps his eyes open to her!

Yikes!
 

Speaking of preggo tests..

Today I learned that you can buy +preggo tests on craigslist..........:|

:|<-- my why am I not cross posting face...

I heard this on the news yesterday. i have to say, if I were a guy, who needed proof of pregnancy, knowing this, I would insist on seeing the pee on the stick actually happen. What people won't do these day eh?

I am not sure if this counts but I have three kids two older girls and one son. Well the son is getting ready to turn 25 and is still living at home. Yes he was in college and does pay his own bills but it can't be healthy to live at home.
I do understand the way things are out there and how hard it is to take care of yourself. If it was better I would have been gone long ago. pfft
I just wonder how kids now a day can call themselves adults and still live at home and have the parent or parents take care of the?

do you charge this man, and he is a man, not a child, rent? Does he pay his own bills, groceries, all that? if not, present him with a bill, and an eviction notice, let him choose, pay, or go.

A hell of a lot of kids. In my experience, it is many more boys than girls who do this.

That wasn't an option for us. When TF's son decided to decisively throw away a (pretty much free) 4 year college education after his freshman year, he expected that he would just live at home and continue to work his part-time job and "take a year off in order to figure out what he wanted to do".

This was a no go. Instead, this is what you will be doing, dear boy:

1)You need to get full time hours at current job/a full time job/part-time jobs equaling full time hours within 3 months.
2)You need to pay ____ amount of rent when you get a full time job and until then, you need to pay ____ amount (percentage of income).
3)After getting the full time job we will talk about setting aside so much from your pay check per month and then we will determine how many more months you will live here.
4) You will then move out.
5)If you do not get the full time hours at current job/get full time job in 3 months, you are on the street.

He decided to join the military instead of working full time. Works for us!

Kid heads to boot camp on 9/9/13!

I'm pretty confident that after he gets done with the Army in 4 years he will be mature enough to want to not live with his parents.

Rent in the South Bay, where I live, has gone up over 9% in less than a year. It went up the year before. We live in the fifth most expensive city in the U.S. $1700-$1800 is at the bottom of the market for a one-bedroom.

Many students and young workers simply cannot afford to move out. A lot of young people literally have no place else to go than to stay with their parents whether they work full time or not. It is simply not possible to live on what many young workers make in this area.

As a teacher, I am almost priced out of the market. I make a lot of money because I have three Master's degrees. But I am near the bottom of the housing market here.

It's a big big deal and getting to the point that it is affecting the very corporations who have helped create the problem. Good workers, who are not their high paid superstars, are turning down companies' job offers because they don't want to pay what it costs to live here -- especially for what you get (It's NOT San Francisco in terms of culture -- so not -- and it's not a drop dead gorgeous place to live -- endless strip malls).

Working class and middle class young people are screwed if they want to stay here. Their paycheck is a joke in the face of the housing market.

They can buy food and keep a car, but they cannot house themselves. Some college students and young working people live in apartments with five and six people in them, but most people don't want to live like that, and landlords don't want tenants like that.

Point is that it's not that shameful for young folks to live at home here. Where else are they gonna live? I would not send my kid to live in the hood, and, hell, it's not that cheap there.

I am so happy to see this thread...I have been dealing with this issue for several years...my partner and I have been together about 7 years...in 2006 I helped her get custody of her son..her daughter was already living with her...and I moved in...my children lived with their father...so it was me, my wife, her two kids full custody...my kids visited holidays...in 2008 her daughter went off to college and we had full time custody of her son...my daughter also got married in 2008...in 2009 my son graduated HS and went away to school to Arlington about an hour away....in 2010 her daughter moved back in with us...we had just bought a home...she said she needed money for a car and was going to take a year off from school to buy a car...her son lived with us full time, my son was in college, and my daughter was married...in 2011 her son graduated HS and went away to college in denton about an hour away...and her daughter moved out to go to school online...and work...

now it is 2013, her daughter is living with us full time while she student teaches, her son is here weekends, my son is in graduate school, and my daughter is separated from her husband...my children have never lived under the same roof with me after I divorced their dad...part of this is because the lifestyle I chose, part of it was logistics....but...we have always had at least one of my partner's children living with us...am I wrong to resent this...am I bad person...this is causing a huge strain on my relationship...any advice would be helpful :)

cricket,

It sounds like a lot. It would be hard for me, but everyone is different. For me, the determining factor would be if the child:

a) had to live with us due to environmental factors such as Martina described or disability

b) The child was there for a specific purpose/time frame and was following through. For example, if he/she is saving for a house and actually saving the amount discussed per month for said house, it wouldn't be a problem.

It is when an adult child is choosing to not work/function as an adult, than I have problems. Giving our kids a leg up is great, enabling them to stay on crutches, is not.

ETA: In terms of advice, the obvious...talk to your partner about how you feel.

I sort of wish I'd had a kid when I was young. I wouldn't mind living with her or him now. (shrug) I mean assuming they weren't dependent on me, but rather, it was a truly shared household. I don't see the harm in that.

This!

I loved living with my Mom and my family later in her life, and i enjoy living with my soon to be 20 year old now. Many cultures revere family life, and many generations live together.

Yes i want my child to be strong and independant when it is the right time, but i am going to enjoy every minute i have before she goes.

I think this raises an interesting point. The conversation thus far has focused on traditional American thinking of the last hundred years or so. Other countries and cultures view this subject very differently.

I live in a very culturally diverse town. People from all over the world. Particularly when it comes to Asian and Middle Eastern countries. Next-door to me is a family originally from the Philippines who have lived in their home for 30 years and there are three generations there, it is because they want it that way. Another family bought a house across the street about a year ago, it is a multi generational Chinese family. Two months ago house three doors down just changed hands, it is a four generation family from Iran. All of these families are doing it by choice, as their culture dictates, and additionally they're able to pool their resources.

I believe this is very different than what we have been discussing so far. I am not advocating for slacker kids looking for a free ride and the people I'm describing are not at all like that. Everybody works, and hard, at whatever the role is in the household.

I think sometimes it is a good idea to step back and remember that the United States is not the world, and that the way our economy and the world's economies are shifting may force us to change some of our current living situations. What we have here, with one person per apartment and one generation family homes, is a first world choice.

Not trying to derail the thread, I just wanted to toss another perspective in there.

Yes! I live next door to a Chinese family (immigrants): a young couple in their 20's, their 1.5 year old son, and (probably) the husband's parents. Now and then, other relatives seem to live with them for awhile. This was the same pattern I found in China itself, in much smaller apartments as well.

My students and I got into a discussion about this topic, in fact, and they were amazed that the "goal" for most American teenagers is to grow up and move out into their own place. Not many American women really want to live with their mothers-in-law; it was just the "done" thing there, whether you liked your MIL or not. From there, we got into topics such as treatment of the elderly and family migration to other cities. There's all kinds of factors.

Strangely enough, as far as I know, the problem of the slacker adult child living perennially in the basement doesn't exist. Everyone pitches in. Next door, the grandparents watch the baby several days a week while the young couple work.

Yes, I actually wrote about (but then deleted) multi generational/ inter-generational households. I decided it was a different topic and didn't want to muddy the waters! Funny it was brought up by someone else!

I suppose I feel more like the Europeans do about family. I would have all of my children at home with me. I don't care if they pay rent. I don't care if they eat what's in the cabinets or do their laundry in the basement. All that really matters to me is to have them close and to share my life with them. I don't come from the kind of family that lives long, and extended family is something I never really had. I would never say go to a Laundromat, or do my laundry since you are down there, or anything like that. I would never turn my children out, because why have them spend the coins on rent somewhere else, when there's space here. How could I not make space for my own child? Even the child I share with my exgf? Or my wife's children. I never expect them to need a place to stay when they can come home. My children all do their own laundry, and choose to. They all pretty much buy their own food. The happiest days of my life would be when all the kids are around the dinner table and the meal is steaming in the center of the table.

I realize I'm not the norm in that ideology, but I've already lost so much time with most of my children, why would I waste anymore? I think it takes a special person to be able to love and accept your children for who they turned out to be and to be willing to always shelter them and care for them when they need it, or even when they do not. If they want to live on their own, I can accept that, but if they want to move home, they all know that I am dying for the privilege of sharing space with them.

I do see a fair number of twenty-somethings not doing well out there and returning home for reasons not primarily related to the economy or to serious mental or physical health issues.

Some of it, IMO, is the result of the different parenting styles that have prevailed for the last few decades. Parents and kids are a lot more involved with one another, and kids do depend on parents for more. Basically too much modeling and assisting, too much oversight, on the parent's part, and not enough trial and error on the child's part.

When I was growing up, unless kids were struggling in school, their parents barely knew what their homework was -- unless there was a major project, particularly one parents had to fork over some cash for.

It hasn't been as safe for kids to be as independent either. Or it has been recognized that it never was that safe for kids to be out and about on their own. At the same time, there are studies that show that unsupervised play is extremely important for development of executive function in children -- exactly what so many twenty-somethings seem to lack.

Also, imaginative social play is much better at developing executive function, especially regulation of emotions and self-discipline, than playing computer games and watching TV.

Then environmental health factors that increase anxiety and depression could play a role. Chronic low level anxiety and depression may not end up getting treated and can really affect brain development. Anxiety can be a factor in executive function deficits, as can PTSD and ADHD. In fact, ADHD and executive function deficits are strongly associated. Whatever affects memory and concentration can result in executive function deficits.

And then there is the whole gut-brain thing. The recent study about thin people having a more diverse population of bacteria in their gut is a piece of scientific evidence supporting what is still an alternative medicine theory. As someone with IBS, anxiety and depression, I am a believer. And this may be in part caused by the western diet -- and not just eating poorly, but eating foods like very high gluten wheat, which all of ours is now.

And just stress. Stress alone can cause kids to not learn to cope. Also lack of exercise can contribute. And we are clearly a more sedentary society with every generation.

All this stuff can make it less likely for children to develop executive function skills -- self-discipline, organization, problem-solving, planning, emotional self-regulation, ability to learn from past mistakes, and flexibility (being less thrown and upset by change, in particular).

And to be still developing these well into adulthood, when the consequences for mistakes are much more serious and when expectations are much higher, is tough, tough on everybody. There needs to be more support out there for people over 18 still struggling.

Again, I am grateful for the Affordable Care Act. At least more young people still struggling can continue to be covered by their parents' insurance (already in place) or can get insurance on their own. That will make life less scary. I wish our health care system were more responsive to developmental issues though.

Wow Martina! I so appreciate your perspective as an educator. There are two sides to this coin. I grew up in the 70s and as you said my parents did not help with homework and were the opposite of helicopter parents! I was doing more things at my daughter's age than I can even imagine her doing. Leaving the house all day on Saturdays with a group of girls and taking the bus all over. Walking for hours without *gasp* a cell phone. My Mom had no idea where I was or what I was doing!

Flip side...I had OCD at age 10 and knew something was very wrong and never said squat to my parents. I was sexually abused and exposed to a flasher (so 70s!) AT SCHOOL when I was in the 4th grade.

My kid has OCD. Finally her Dad has agreed to get her the help she needs. Thank G-d she won't be 42 years old and still flailing about trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with her! My life changed dramatically when I was finally properly diagnosed.

I think we need a blend of the old school parenting and the new school parenting. It is hard to do when all your kid's friends have helicopter parents.

I hope my daughter will not come back to live with me. Not because I don't love her a lot but because I want her to live her own life.

The connection to anxiety and depression and learning is huge. Thank you for bringing that up.

Martina, thanks for this excellent, excellent post. I think that you really hit the nail on the head when you spoke to poor executive functioning:


I think the above is really what we aren't seeing in our early 20 year olds. I know that for me the self discipline and learning from past mistakes (and a sense of consequences), is what has been most concerning about our son, D.

You really are spot on with the above Martina.

Kids don't have to fail anymore, we grab them before they fall. Every kid gets a trophy. We don't give our children the opportunity to learn consequences. Even if the parents do well at allowing the consequences to happen at home, schools and recreational activities pick up the ball and don't let kids fail. Hell, if they don't, the parents attack them about it!

So, as Martina said, they have to learn through BIG adult lessons instead of the small ones they would experience as a child. They fail out of college because their high school teacher (often at parent's urging), didn't give them that F in English class that they deserved.

It is sad to think that what we do in "love" and what we do thinking it will improve self confidence and self esteem, can actually cripple our children instead. I will have to find the article I read that spoke about this.

Great discussion folks.

Pam, I really like the way you handed things when they were home. It sounds like you set it up where they had guidelines one might have with a child or an employee, but at the same time you operated with them on an adult to adult level. If that makes sense.

thank you for all the encouragement and opinions...I don't mind helping my partners children...or my children...that is what parents are for...but I guess the problem is that I feel like my children are not as welcome in my home as her children...as most of you know teens are very territorial...and since my partners children are the ones living in the home with us...my children kind of get treated like "step children" this is what upsets me....I hope that clarifies things...

there are times I get very upset and we argue and fight...and it brings me to tears thinking about it...

the youngest has 2 more years of college and I don't know if I can do this....I never see my son...and I rarely see my daughter unless I am going to get my hair done...it is very hard....

From a twenty something & slight derail...
 

I want to call into question some things that are being said in this particular thread.

First, I would like to point out that the education system has failed my generation in many ways. I, personally, don't believe in the whole self esteem movement --in terms of children not failing, taking exams, etc. But I would also say that the other fundamental problem of education in the 90s/2000s --was it became normal for people to pay for training in whatever form-- *at their own expense*

It's easy for the baby boomers and the generation after to point fingers at my generation, saying its our fault that we are underemployed or whatever twist on it they would like to call it. The reality is twentysomethings are faced with a job crunch two fold. Baby boomers are staying working longer (for many reasons) & we are forced to shell out massive amounts of money to get advanced education for even entry level jobs. It used to be possible to start at the bottom and work your way into training, experience and security. Ha!!!! I've applied for entry level jobs that REQUIRED a 4 year degree that the starting wage was laughable. Job security is a thing of the past. Company loyalty is almost nonexistent because we saw our parents get laid off from companies that they had worked for after 10,15, 20+ years. We know uncertainty, because it happened to us.

It is not unheard of to spend tens of thousands to get a trades education--never heard of in previous generations! Companies used to PAY their tradespeople to get certified. Now pay for it yourself, and be unemployed for your 8 months of school!
Want to be a professional? Better be ready to pay 1/3 of your salary for the next 10 years for those two or three degrees.

Remember when there were massive cuts in the 80s and 90s and 00s to primary education and advanced education? Hello Reaganomics & that little ballon of government debt for two wars? Not to mention the looming retirement crisis? Last I checked those cuts benefited previous generations, not mine.


Yeah, those are only some of the reasons that college educated twentysomethings are having a hard time finding jobs.
Those of us that are LUCKY enough to finish post secondary education end up taking less than stellar jobs after university and are saddled with hefty student loan debt.

My generation was told to work hard in school. Go to university. Get a good job.

But it wasn't all flowers and roses afterwards-- please keep that in mind before you paint us all with the same brush. We were freshly minted graduates when that big ole recession hit.

I'd rather talk about some of the real reasons unemployment (and the after effect of moving back in with your parents) is so high for my generation--- lack of training by corporations passing the buck on to the worker for higher profits, real working wages, disappearance of unions, the student loan bubble , debt in society, the list keeps growing...

--a girl who had to move back in with mommy temporarily after university to survive.

Hi, stepfordfemme!

I am really glad that you joined the thread. I don't think there is a thing you said in your post I would argue.

For clarification, I was speaking to adult children who were not seeking out education, are not actively looking for work that could result in sustaining themselves outside of their parents home, and/or are not contributing to the home financially when they are able to. Completely different than what you are talking about. I believe that this is what others in the thread were speaking to, as well, unless otherwise noted (such as Martina's post).

To help with context, did you go to grade/high school in Canada and is that where you live now?

Not at all a derail stepfordfemme. I agree completely. It's an entirely different world than when I was coming up.

Cheers.
 

Totally appreciated your comments in one of your earlier posts as well.
It's hard to quote every point from previous --that it is a failing of the education system at times.

It takes a lot of humility sometimes for people to ask for help from family.

My personal experience was temporary, but I have several friends post degree that haven't had their lucky break to leave the nest due to their student loan debt. My university roomie pursued her passion in the fine arts-- but now she is working two part time jobs and running an online business from her parents place to A) do what she loves B) pay what she owes.

I'm not saying that we all made wise decisions in our degrees or our choices, but the return to nest is often a necessary evil.

It was your post that was actually my starting point, so I'm glad you responded.

I think it is important to contribute to a household- in whatever form. But here is where households get blurry at times. If parents do not treat their children as "tenants" are children automatically responsible to pay them rent?
I think that is the point where children and adults need to have discussions around what the expectations are of them living in the household as adults.
It's a negotiation that goes both ways. If it's a free ride-- it's a choice of the house owners. It is no different than relationships when one partner foots bills and the other can be perceived as a big mooch. It's an enabler and a user relationship. No one likes to be taken for granted.

I personally do not view that as a generational issue and that's where my concern came from with the description of the "twentysomethings"


For context, I am Canadian. I attended public schools, equivalent to what is a "state school" university, and one private school (post degree- paid for by working two low paying jobs, my own blood sweat and tears money). I am debt free --because I took a career path that paid well, completely unrelated to what I want to do. I am right now working on going back for a graduate level degree which I'll end up borrowing for, to do what I love. I gave up and worked incredibly hard for the majority of my twenties to pay back for my undergrad.

When I graduated I was lucky enough that my mother (who did not actively contribute to my education due to low income and later permanent disability)-- offered me a temporary situation to get a nest egg built up so I could move to more feasible place to find employment. I moved to a big city and here I am. My mom kicked me out at one point in high school for being queer. We don't see eye to eye, but I gritted my teeth and took her help.



I think the next ten to twenty years will be interesting for us all. There was an interesting article that I read discussing the sandwich generation. Where inter generational housing situations will become the norm. I wish I could find to link at the moment because it would be a great point to continue discussion. In summary, there is and will continue to be a group that will have their parents and children living all under one roof---to due prohibitive costs of home ownership and facilities for seniors who need constant care.

Many retirees will also be looking for help when they are going into retirement with debt and are forced to stop working. I hope that their children will be able to find themselves better off in terms of responsibility and financially to help their parents out.

Great discussion!

I am a sandwich child. My siblings and I just spent the last year taking care of our Mom during her terminal illness and raising our own kids.

It is so funny that you mention that because in my post I said I hope my daughter does not come to live with me but then I was thinking when you posted that well she better take me in!

I do though as a parent believe that my number one priority is to take care of my own retirement so that my daughter won't have to.

This is another topic I have been reading a bit about in the financial magazines. As stepfordfemme noted, the cost of college is ridiculously high now. Historically, parents (for those that were able), typically tried to save for both retirement and pay for their children's education costs. With the crazy high costs of education (and the 2008 stock market drop where many lost half their retirement savings), this is no longer possible.

The question is, would your child prefer you pay for their college and then move in with them when you retire? Or would they prefer you cover your retirement and not live with them during retirement?

Right now the trend is towards parents putting every dime into paying for their children's college and not funding their retirement. The economy/advice experts are suggesting that parents fund their retirement first and then give to the kids what they can for college.

I was lucky enough that my oldest boy paid for his schooling as he went along while his wife took out loans and her family helped her. She has a lot of debt, and because he lived at home for many years while he worked and paid off his debts, my son has very few. She also has a better job as a physical therapist and he's an accountant.

My daughter was a 4.3 average in H.S. and took out a few loans while going through her first four years of University. She graduated with honors in the field of astrophysics, and was offered a free ride and a thirty thousand dollar a year stipend at John Hopkins while she got her Masters and she's finishing her Doctorate. All she had to do was teach school during that time. She's taken a bit of loans out via credit cards to cover some costs because Baltimore is so expensive, but all in all, she's not doing badly.

When I became disabled, both kids came home immediately. While they were here they helped out and did some clean up for me. I felt more than embarrassed because I'm usually the one that runs everything. I was very comforted though.

My daughter and son spoke at great lengths, when she finishes getting her Doctorate she wants to buy a larger house for me and my wife and all of our pet-family to move in with her, but first she wants to stay here with us while she takes some time off of academia and does something for herself for a while. I suggested maybe doing something like hiking across Europe or maybe taking a year off and teaching on a reservation, or working on a ranch. Anything that will let her unwind and work off the stress of academia.

My kids grew up with me working two jobs to make sure they had what they wanted, even sending them money if they needed it, however I could get it. They are proud of me, they tell me often, and I'm proud of them. School debt is terrible, I'd love to be able to pay my daughters off. She's worked hard to get where she is, and the free ride the last few years has been a big fat help. No matter what happens, I know that if they come home to live with me, or if I go to live with them, it's what we all want.

This is a great story. Thanks for sharing about your kids.

I don't have kids but I think the ideal home would be a multi-occupant dwelling with both private and shared areas, good sound proofing and not-necessarily-large, but well ventilated, quiet, both sunny and shady outdoor space, and some kind of consensus process about who is admitted as tenants leave and their space is filled by someone else.

I could see parents and their adult kids living in this kind of habitat.

(Okay, dubious way to weasel into this discussion. But the discussion triggered it.)

Public colleges and universities are still affordable and even though the interest rate on college loans just went up a little, it's still about half the interest most loans incur.

I work in a college where over half the students attend tuition-free because they income qualify. Most of the rest benefit from some kind of scholarship fund and even those who pay full tuition pay only about $4,000 a year.

Start at a community college and save money on your transferable, intro- level classes. Transfer to a public university and meanwhile, research what kind of merit fellowships are out there as you gain credibility with a high GPA and the other stuff you accrue—a record of public service, etc.

Anyway that's what I recommend for people entering college. Unless of course they get some kind of incredible deal at a private college right at the start, based on their remarkable high school record and often, ethnic identity.

My point is, families don't have to lose their savings to put their kids through college. I never knew that till I fell ass backwards into fellowships and later, worked in a public university system.

IslandScout, do you work at a community college or a college/university?

I agree about going to community college first. Our son (TF's son), was successful in getting a deal with our local university. Although his classes were held at the local community college, he was a university student. After two years he would receive a liberal arts associates degree from the university. As long as he kept his grades to a C, he would transfer to the "main campus" and finish out his Bachelor's degree. To boot, the associates degree is paid for by the State, as long as you keep your grades at a high C. If not, you are only looking at $4,000/year.

The State will also pick up the tab for the community college students (for a two year degree in whatever they choose, I think). For both programs, the requirment is that you must go right out of high school. It is pretty freaking amazing.

And yes, when I made the statement about college funding/retirement funding, I was speaking about parents with children who went straight to 4 year schools, not those who started at community colleges.

That's really great, Dapper. Oftentimes, kids get better academic supervision and mentoring at community colleges. And the cc's that are part of a large university system are protected from becoming workforce development factories and continue to develop their liberal arts offerings. Also, professors at "good" community colleges encourage students to compete in things and attend conferences that are traditionally dominated by 4-year schools.

And in the end, it's the bachelor's degree and beyond that matters, IMO.

Yes, it is the bachelor's degree that matter, for certain. I also saw the mentoring that you speak of where TF's son was going. Excellent professors. It was a really interesting situation where they were University professors (employees of the local university), nestled within a community college. I understand the community college professors are excellent as well.

ETA: I realize my posts could be confusing as I am posting in a different area on the site about how TF's son is leaving for boot camp tomorrow. Although D was in the above program, he did not continue on that path. He was in it for one year (last year).