Femmes: How do you like to be treated on a date?
 

I was talking to someone in the chat room the other night and I made the remark that I can't afford date anyone right now. The femme I was talking to asked me why I feel that it takes money, and for me it comes down to how I treat a femme on a date.

For *ME*, it takes money to date a femme properly. No, I would never take a femme to McDonald's for a date. I may not take her to the fanciest place for dinner, but it should be nice. 60$ is not an unreasonable amount to spend on a nice meal with a girl. Then there is all the grooming. A fresh haircut every 2 weeks; getting a car wash before each date because who wants to be picked up in a dirty car??; Having freshly cleaned and pressed clothes that are dress-casual to dressy. (Jeans are fine if you have a dress shirt and tie to go with them.) And, bring her a small gift with each date, usually flowers, but it could be something else that she likes, such as candy or something else. Buy her drinks if you are at a bar.

Things that don't cost money but are essential to me are: Be freshly showered before each date! Open every door for her; pull out her chair for her; allow her to order her food first; ask her first if you want to hold her hand or kiss her (that's just good manners). If you like how she looks or her smile or how she smells or the things that she says, or wears, then tell her. Let her talk about herself, and don't dominate the conversation with things about you. Don't use a lot of swear words. Don't talk about your exes!! Don't be in a rush to get into bed; try to get to know her, who she is and what she is like. Listen to her. Ask her what kind of things she enjoys doing, what kind of food she likes, etc. so if she agrees to another date, you can plan your next date around things she enjoys. Don't do the same thing every single date - try to plan a variety of activities. Thank her for spending time with you, and if you really like her and want to see her again, don't wait more than 2 days to call her. Don't call her the very next day, either. Give room, but not too much room. Don't blow up her phone with text messages either, but saying you had a good time is important.

The person I was discussing this with said she had never been treated this way on a date, and I was kind of surprised. She told me I should start a thread about dating, so here it is:

Femmes, how do you like to be treated on a date? I think all of us people on the masculine spectrum should know what you ladies would like and what you think is important. I know not all femmes are the same and like the exact same things, so having as much feed back as possible is really appreciated! Also, some feed back about what NOT to do would be helpful too! Stories about both good dates and bad ones are welcome! I personally would really like to know how to be a better date so that someday, if I ever can afford to date again, I can do it better. Thanks in advance!

Great thread! *takes a seat readily listening* (:

I don't think it has to cost much money to go out on a date.

i usually get a fresh haircut wether I have a date or not.

It doesn't cost much to prepare a nice picnic lunch on the beach or at a park.

If its flowers you can not afford there are some very nice flowers you can pick for her along the way.

I can wash my own car

My clothes I can iron myself also

Wala ..Instant date

Thats a great start Guy!!! Picked flowers are much better it shows effort and thought! Picnic lunches are great!! and depending on where the picnic will be and if you have 4X4 the vehicle doesnt really have to be clean either, Hit the lake bank, Go MUDDIN!!! That makes for a super Southern date!!

If I've had an evening of intelligent conversation, laughs, and a kind of connection, that's a great date. I don't care if it's walking in the park; if I like you, time is what's important.

The right person could take me for a Big Mac, and in fact I'd rather have a Big Mac with someone I kind of loved than a nice meal with so-so. A "gift" should be something that says you've been paying attention. I personally don't enjoy getting cut flowers-take me to a garden, instead, and leave them in the ground. The right person could bring me a bag of M&M's wrapped in a ribbon, and that would be more than any trinket.

Cleanliness of person and vehicle, that I can get behind. Make like you're putting some pride in yourself, and making an effort for me.

It's just me, but I don't like to be asked if you can hold my hand or kiss me. The answer will be no. If things are going well, go for it ;). But that's just me. I'm not sure where I am on pulling out chairs and opening doors, ordering first-I must be strange, but that's never flipped my switch. Just act naturally-if you're ready to order first, order.

Show me who you are. Tell me about yourself.

I guess I don't want to be treated like "the femme" or "a lady". I mean, don't be rude and crude, of course, but just treat me as you would like to be treated. Just hold my hand and be my friend.

wow..........

respect comes to mind....before during and after a date is important...

the grooming because you have taken the time to do this will be noticed, because i too will have taken the time to groom....

for me a picnic in the park /lake / ocean would be ideal this is just as intimate a setting as dinner perhaps less stuffy....

flowers if you have taken the time to find out said favorite flower then i would think either purchased and or hand picked would be good however not necessary....

but then again...what the hell do i know? the word "date" has me running for cover...the word itslef makes me feel all stuffy and like i would need to be something or someone im not....put on a pretense of something i just cant do or beleive in....

based on above paragraph i think dating for me would have to entail some sort of activity outside and or indoors however no movies and please no way too expensive restaurants....just because im looking out for your pocket book...this economy you got to get creative in your dating ....

i guess too i would gather to say i really like playing pool and am quite good at it and a pool hall would suit me just fine in terms of a date....lol

then again that's me........

i want to be treated like a princess because i am a princess however doesn't that mean doing things i like doing?????

so having led to any sort of date.....a conversation would have had to take place and if you have listened really listened it would be simple i would think...

Hmmmm...I think we are missing the focus here: it is about what the femmes would like.

OK, I have written and erased three times. Here it is if it were a first date: I want to be picked up from my front door; don't blow your horn, it does not make me want to run out the door. I want there to be a bit of nervousness, excitement between us because the unknown can happen. I want to look you in the eyes and know that I am safe. I want you to extend your hand as I go to step over the threshold of my door. As we walk together to your car, bend your arm and put my hand there. Open the car door, and offer your hand again. Please note that if your side of the car is locked, I will lean over and unlock it. This is all before the car is even started...My point being, treat me like I am lady, and allow me to treat you like a Gentleman. That is the best gift you can ever offer me.

Yes that is my wish: that we hear from the femmes about what they like! :)

OK :). I got off track. Here's what a great date looks like to me:

*First, you're right. Clean yourself, your clothes, and the car. If there's even a scintilla of a chance that I'm coming in later on, clean your home.

*Don't pull up into the driveway and honk. I DO want you to come to the door. That's just good manners, date or not.

*I do like an aforementioned personal gift-not a lot of $, but just something that says "I noticed this and thought you'd like it". A friend of mine, whom I'm not even dating, once surprised me with an angel she saw in a store window, and remembered that I love angels, which was just a passing comment. That meant a lot.

*I love nicely flowing conversation; if it's hard to get you talking, that gets awkward.

*Don't blast music or drive like a maniac (have had both)

*Who doesn't like compliments?

*Be honest about your table manners and correct accordingly. This is something I am sticky on.

*Have some conversation topics ready to go, especially on a first date. I for one enjoy controversial topics as long as it doesn't go into "well, you're all wrong" territory.

*I love to finish a date outdoors-a walk in the park, something like that.

That's about it. I don't want to be on a pedestal or the queen. Take me out as you would go out with a friend, because that's what I am, first and foremost.

The best dates I've had, regardless of where we've gone, what we've eaten or how much money was spent have had the following qualities...

~My Date's Attention - I feel like I have the attention of my date, no sense of being 'tuned out'.

~Effort - For people I've dated for whom money is not a concern, sometimes coming up with a date idea that does NOT cost money is a huge effort (for example). I just love that feeling that the person I am on a date with has made some sort of unique effort or put energy into the date or the idea of the date - especially if that effort specifically addresses something that they know about me or have learned as we've begun getting to know each other. I find that more creative date ideas are the most memorable, exciting, and truly enjoyable for me.

~Something pretty - Sometimes it's a view. Sometimes it's candles on the table or in the room, or a nearby fireplace. Sometimes it's a sunset. Sometimes it's flowers. Sometimes it's just a nice setting.

~Play - And I mean this in the most innocent of ways (honestly). For me, some element of play is really fantastic on a date. Maybe the other person has a naturally playful personality and says things that make me laugh/giggle, or maybe it's more literal and we play a game of pool, cards, mini golf, or whatever. I love an element of play on a date.

~My Date was comfortable! - Sometimes, with all the energy put into making the other person comfortable/happy or impressing them, one ends up sacrificing their own needs or stepping too far outside their own comfort zones. If you pick a date that you know you'll enjoy too, you're more likely to be relaxed and comfortable - which will put your date at ease! If you're super uncomfortable at fancy restaurants (for example) don't try to impress your date by taking them to one - pick something that you know you can enjoy too. Trust me, if you're uncomfortable - your date will be, too.


One of my favourite dates, was when Sparx surprised me on a weekday at my office - after she'd learned I'd been having a really crummy day. She'd snuck a picnic basket into my car, so when we went to get in the car and head home, She suggested instead that we head to our favourite sunset-gazing spot and have dinner. The really memorable part was that she had packed bread (that she'd baked fresh that day) and all the fixings for sandwiches. The reason she hadn't pre-assembled the sandwiches and had, instead, packed condiments and fixings into individual containers and baggies, was because she knows that I have this thing.... where I like sandwiches to be very very fresh when I eat them... you'll never see me buying a premade sandwich from the deli section -ew. She even thought to pack a side dish and beverages. It was a lovely meal made all the more lovely by the thought, energy, and effort she'd put into making it perfect. And, after we'd watched the sun go down, she walked me to the fancy restaurant in the same park to get coffee and dessert. It was such a lovely and memorable evening.

Goof brought flowers, champagne and kitty litter on our first date. I was totally smitten.

A couple of cigarettes, a cup of coffee and a little bit of conversation. You and me and five bucks.



I think flowers are a horrible gift. So wasteful. They die and you throw them away. Plus they are super unoriginal. I'd much rather the person on the other end of the date put that money into a gift card for a local coffee place. Or sent me a mix of their 10 favourite songs on itunes. Or even got me a keychain - I love keychains. I mean if you know her well enough to go on a date with her, SURELY you know her well enough to have some sort of an idea of what her interests are.

I have to say, though, there is no formula except sincerity. Some femmes like this, but not that. Some want to be courted, others want to be friends. Seems like we all want our date to be sincere.

And that's really the thing, isn't it? Femmes are not some monochromatic alien beings. We're not so freakishly bizzare and difficult to understand that it is necessary to figure out the mysterious formula for making us happy. We're just people, for crissakes. And because we're people, there are no two of us who are alike or who want/require the exact same things.

Can you imagine if I insisted upon presenting every Butch I've ever met with a toolbelt on her birthday? I'd look like such a jackass! Particularly if that Butch is more interested in, for example, reading or gardening than they are in tools.

Oh well.

First and most importantly, I don't think you can assume anything about how someone wants to be treated on a date, simply because of their gender.

I think for a date to go well, the natural flow has to happen, between the people. For example, the first date my wife took me on, she cycled to my house at 8am, right after her shift at the hospital to take me out to Hampstead Heath's women's pond to go swimming. We sat on my bead and she brought a bottle of reasonably priced but nice sparkling wine (southafrican, I think probably about £7) with some smoked salmon ends (cheap. 80 pence) and some crusty rolls (40 pence each. So champers breckfast for two, in bed = £8.60, less than a meal at Mc Donlads).

we then has some leisurely sex and went to the pond for a summer afternoon swim and a long talk with lots of laughing.

She came back home with me and I cooked her a lovely dinner.

That's not a typical date (we'd known each other a monht before sleeping together and we had finally gone home with each other after she asked if I was going to a club night in soho that night - that wasn't a date, I was already going and she had mates with her)

I'm glad we slept together before dating. It made everything a hell of a lot easier in terms of what we could do on a date. And frankly, I'd rather have a picnic than a restaurant, a swim in a pond in stead of theater, a free museum jaunt and a bicycle ride together along the marshes than a drive to some soiree/gallery opening with beer at £4 a bottle.

SO she was perfect for me. The first night I met her I actually bought her the beer after a certain point because she had just graduated as a student and had run out of cash. We were at a squat rave party so it was only £1 a can. Neither of us cared who paid for what, we were so enamoured by each other.

I love being treated and spoiled and so does she. She loves blowing her money on me if she ever has any (which is now half mine anyway and vice versa because we only have a single bank account) and I love buying stuff for her. But we don't have cash at the moment so she spoils me by doing other things. Like doing all the housework when I'm exhausted, instead of half. Pouring me a bath with oils and candles. letting me pick the movie (and it being a period drama, which she tolerates when she's being indulgent), giving me a massage.

And fuck me, do I ever appreciate those things!!!


The dates she takes me on now always makes me feel like I'm her Beloved no matter what £ is involved or not. because she's thought about *me* - what would barb like? before taking me on one. I do the same for her when I take her on one.

I usually start with, "You wanna date me? I'll let ya." and take it from there.







Labels: humor, parody

My situation is a bit unique and my needs different then the typical.

If someone dates me it means they have to come here and sense it's out in the country, normally requires a drive, they normally stay the night. Therefore I only date someone I've spent time with getting to know. I have met people for coffee in Greensboro and Raleigh but its hard for me to just slip out and spend a few hours for coffee.

I'm happy to plan and cook. I think its rude to go to someone's house empty handed. I don't even do this, especially when someone is entertaining me. Do a little research and surprise me. A bottle of wine, flowers, a plant, anything. I also expect you to help out with cleaning up after. If you come for the weekend help me around the farm. Yes- I put them to work! If they can't handle some work then they probably won't fit into my lifestyle anyhow.

I don't expect someone to pay. It depends on who ask whom and what we're doing. If someone takes me out to dinner I expect them to pay. I reciprocate by inviting them for a home cooked meal.

I really enjoy someone who is intelligent and creative. Someone who plans a surprise for me and helps me make the available time. It can be a trip to the lake, a hike, go fishing, kayaking, movie, dinner, almost anything. I hate always making plans and deciding.

Its not what we do so much as the energy present. I prefer someone attentive and affectionate. Good conversation without effort.

Show genuine interest in me as a person, I, in return, will do the same. If I date you, I am genuinely interested in knowing you.

I would rather sit and just have coffee & chat than go to the movies on a first date.

Be real with me. If I go out with you, I am already impressed by you so no pretense is necessary.

Understand that I am just as anxious as you are that the date go well, though I may now outwardly show it.

No expensive fancy date needed (though that is fun too). A picnic at the beach or a park is great.

Splitting the cost of the date is fine. Just because you are butch does not mean I expect you to pay but be honest ahead of time. If you do not bring it up, I will to make you more comfortable.

If you really like me, please let me know. I hate to guess. If you decide you do not want to see me again, be honest & tell me. I will do the same.

Be respectful, honor my boundaries.

Good hygiene, no bad breath please.

Please, no stories about femmes that did you wrong in the past. I will refrain from telling you stories about butches that did me wrong; in return.

In a nutshell: be the sweet, charming, open and honest butch that I know you are, even before I really know you.

I love this
 

I love how diverse we all are....

for me personally, i am old school and i love old school treatment....please pay for my dinner, open my doors, hold my hand or let my hand rest in the crook of your arm, make sure im on the inside as we walk down a street this shows the world that you respect me and that im yours for the evening.

im not opposed to "dutch" just communicate that.


im also not opposed to planning a date...however i don't want to plan the first one..immediate turn off for me...im also not flattered when someone says i want to take you out on a date by the way i want you to also pay...again another turn off.

yes sometimes knowing who is paying for dinner and such is important.......

communication is important upfront....

With...
 

Don't spend too much money. I actually pulled out of a new relationship once because the Butch I was dating (and it hadn't been going on very long at all) spent hundreds of dollars on me at V-Day. It made me incredibly uncomfortable, and while hy clearly had good intentions - it made me want to not date hym any more. I just couldn't get passed it! The combination of feeling bought and feeling weird that I didn't (actually, couldn't!) reciprocate monetarily was just way too much for me and I skedaddled.

Some of the greatest gifts I'd ever received cost less than 20 dollars. Most of them I still have and use today.

- a glasses case shaped like a handbag
- a black/gold checkered cigarette case
- a compact with a dragonfly painted on it
- a totebag with a cartoon monkey wearing a pirate outfit on it
- a little black change purse with blue stars on it
- paul frank earbuds
- Morrissey and Siouxsie duet "Interlude" on vinyl
- a brown with pink polka dots travel mug
- the b-horror-movie Carnival of Terror on VHS (this was forever ago!)
- playing cards with Elvis on them!!!!!

And most recently, my work-bestie (who I admit I have a bit of a crush on) drew me a picture for my birthday. It's a cartoon fox and captioned "Happy Birthday, Bestie! You are so foxy!" I put it on my fridge. For his birthday I made him marble magnets with Wonder Woman on them and he was super excited. We're besties like that.

I grew up in Texas and have very firm ideas on how I should be treated - good Southern manners go far with me! Money is immaterial, though - in fact, a fancy restaurant seems like too much unless it's a special occasion. Picnics, boat rides, gentle hikes, drives, etc are more my speed. And I don't really like the classic "dinner and a movie". I prefer a show and drinks - if we're going to watch a performance of any kind I'd want to talk about it after, and a coffee shop or quiet bar give us a chance to do that! Treat me like a lady, focus on the moment, share your thoughts with me, and actually be interested when I share with you. Everything else is optional.

My favorite date (so far!) was a nighttime walk through a city garden that had been decorated for Christmas. It was our own fairy wonderland! We talked about everything for hours, admired the lights and displays, and I was her entire focus. She was courteous and chivalrous, constantly seeing to my comfort. The only money spent was on a cup of hot cocoa when I started to get a bit chilled. Afterwards she dropped me back off at my car with a smile, a desire to see me again, and a chaste kiss with no pressure for more. Best date ever.

Gayla got 8 postcards from the area...put a note and a stamp on each one and sent them all the way across country to C. and A. in Pa...they are also doing the postcard exchange and agreed to mail them out using my PO address, which Gayla does not have...it was really really really a sweet surprise...

that's one thing that I, as the Nina-Femme, appreciated as a date...

Ok, now I am going back to read what everyone else said :)

:sparklyheart:

Oh god, exactly!

This one time I went out on a date with a guy because he was postering for the communist party and I struck up a conversation with him about politics (true fact - I will talk to anybody, and I thought "oh neat, a communist. I should talk to him!"). Anyway, the place we went was Sneaky Dee's, which at that time was my favourite place to go (his suggestion). He was SUCH AN INCREDIBLE DOUCHEBAG to the servers, and I was mortified because it was a place that I hung out often enough that I knew most of the people who worked there would recognise me. He actually put his hand in the air and SNAPPED at one juncture and I just about crawled over the table to murder him. (Don't get me started on the hypocrisy of pretending to be a champion of the working person and then treating people who work in the service industry like shit.) I spent a solid month ignoring his phonecalls after that until he gave up.

I also hate when people constantly send their food back. I mean if there is something genuinely wrong (like, if it's cold) that's one thing - but if it's EVERY single time we go out to eat and over stupid reasons then we're going to have an issue. Plus I feel like I can't eat my food until the other person's food is back and I hate when something comes between me and my food. ;)

I'm really weird (maybe not so weird?) about how people behave when they are with me, even friends. If you are obnoxious or have a huge sense of entitlement I'm not going to want to hang out with you. If you make a nuisance of yourself and are demanding of the employees at whatever place we happen to be at (or are unfriendly to them in any way) I will feel humiliated and not want to spend time with you any more.

as for who pays? the asker. If I ask you out, I pay. You ask me out, you pay. Asker picks restaurant and informs when asking. good idea to have a plan B in case someone has food sensitivities.

I *have* been caught out by this before by thinking this was fairly common - it's not in London! I was butt broke and this very suave suited and booted butch solicitor (UK for Lawyer) asked me out for a light dinner on the south bank of the thames, outside table, bit of dimsum. Ok, I thought, that's nice, sure. I take £10 with me, just in case, and head off.

I arrive and it's way more expensive than I thought but that's ok, she's picked it, she asked me, I'll just go light and let her order mostly. As we are talking before the waiter comes I start to get this feeling she's more southern english butch than northern or the kind of butch in North america.... that means everything I might assume goes out the window. This also means she hasn't dated much. they don't really "date" here... that would mean she doesn't know date manners/rituals of the kind I'm used to. ergo, I'm going to have to have a glass of water and a salad with my £10 in this very expensive place.

So I don't order any wine, I turn down, politely, her offer to buy a bottle. I then order an appetiser as my meal. She orders several buckets of dim sum. Offers me some. I say no thanks, I'm not very hungry. oh go on have a few and places four on my plate. I don't touch them till close to the end of the meal.

after a rather awkward date where I realise that although I've met with her casually a couple times at events, this is a no goer. different lifestyle. she doesn't pay attention well either. talks about herself a bit too much in a very boring way and takes herself way too seriously. generalises too much.

when the bill arrives she looks at it and says "split this down the middle, shall we?" with a big happy non-observant grin.
"actually, if you don't mind, I'm just going to pay for mine. I've only got a tenner on me." which came out a bit frosty. I think she was a bit bruised by that. Her tone changed and she sounded a bit hurt.

I rushed away with a lot of relief.

serves me right for making assumptions about people and dating and I should have stated right at the beginning about my budget.

Inki did try to pay for me as often as possible, bless her, and we always have a small wrestle over the bags. I've learned to just let her carry them and say thank you. she means only to be of use and I appreciate it when she takes the awkward bags when we cycle home from shopping. She find me chairs when my feet hurt when we are out, she always gives me the seat on the train. But to assume she will do this for all femmes is a mistake, she'll promptly tell a femme to fuck off at an event if she wants a chair that inki has, simply because she's girly and inki's a butch and therefore has chair rights. She doesn't do the gender divide. she does it because it's me. not because I'm a femme. That feels special.

My only rule is don't bore me. Quiet is fine. Simple is fine. But don't actively bore me.

i can't tell you the number of times i've been picked up and then the butch (or femme) got gas, went to an ATM to get cash, didn't know the directions to where we were going, etc. Don't waste my time. Do all that before you pick me up, for god's sake.

i went out on one date, and the butch stopped by at a business to pick out some furniture for a house she owned that she was staging. Took like an hour. i used to buy furniture for a living. It was NOT interesting. Maybe some people would have loved it. This one also talked about her ex and indicated the ex thought she was perhaps on the stalky side. No second date for her.

Oh this was so much fun
you will never know how happy I was
knowing that you were gonna get a surprise
I am such a geek
and
you took forever to get to the post office


so dating
I don't date
Corkey won't let me
Not sure why that is (snort)
anyway
being the odd duck that I am
while I LOVE surprising other people (those that actually love to be surprised)
I personally don't care to be surprised (ever)
I love knowing exactly what I am getting for B-day etc weeks ahead of time and joyfully waiting till I get it.
I prefer (read want/need) to be involved in the planning of my life
so back in the day (before marriage)
I liked to plan dates together
split the costs or take turns
being polite etc is a given
treating others well is a given
but then so is living within one's means
being able to be yourself and being able to relax
I really want to be comfortable, feel excepted, etc and want the other person to feel that way too.
cause ya know at some point if things work out you may end up living together
personally I don't want to live together and be all formal
home is the place you get to relax and escape from the world
if you are a beer drinking, sports watching in your boxers kind of butch well then you better let that special femme know that side of you exists. Though I would not recommend wearing just boxers on the first date:|
It is nice if you also clean up well and do know how to behave in public.
Be honest, be honest, be honest
no one is perfect
and we all have our querks