You Knew You Were a Femme When...
 

Was it the first time you kissed a girl? Did you come into your femme identity independent of a butch counterpart?

I'll start:

I knew I was a femme when I was babysitting my niece and we were watching some kid's show. Martina Navratilova was on and she was wearing these tiny white tennis shorts. I could NOT stop staring. Every fiber of my being pretty much sat up and said "Oh! So that's what this sex stuff is all about!"

Ohhhh Martina.........YUM. Love that Martina. :D

For me, I first knew I was a femme when I realized that all these butch women really appreciated my femme qualities. I was in college and I'd been out of the closet for about 4-5 years. I was just being myself, really. And I was dating this girl who was very butch. At that time, at least in that part of the country, it was very un-cool and politically incorrect to be femme. You were either butch, soft butch, androgynous, or just the granola type. Well, I was none of those; I was just me!! And I will never forget my butch gf at the time was so enamored, and she'd say "Wow, you're the only lesbian in town who wears a skirt and lipstick!" It was like I was from another planet, but a planet she really liked. Then I just met more and more who liked it, and I started "investigating". I'm such a librarian. I was reading everything I could get my hands on, and immersing myself in the B/F community. Soon after, Leslea Newman put together the book "The Femme Mystique". Somehow I hooked up with her and I'm in the book. (twice!) This was around the same time that "Stone Butch Blues" came out. I got to meet Leslie Feinberg too. (whoa)

Okay so that's a long damn story. Sorry, I got all sentimental. Those were awesome days. So I guess I didn't have to figure out my femme-ness, I just didn't have to keep trying to fit into a non-femme community anymore, and that was such freedom. But yes, the butch counterparts really helped that freedom become possible, and I am forever grateful.

God I love butches. :D

Amen and hallelujah!

What a great story, Library_girl. Thanks for sharing it!

I can really relate to Library Girl. When I came out, everyone was butch or granola (like that description LG).

My 1st GF & I were femme. I loved her dearly but knew something was missing.

I went to visit an old friend I had met in NOW (full of lesbians) & she was very butch. I always felt a pull towards her but not sure why.

I went to visit her one night after the femme & I broke up. We were sitting on her couch in Santa Monica with a joint (but I didn't inhale *wink*) & she said: "come here". I asked why: "Because I want to kiss you, that's why".

My stomach dropped out and I felt "that thing" that enormous attraction that I had never felt before and it just all made sense to me in that very minute. I wasn't attracted to my femme sisters in the same, profound, soul-searing way that I was to butches.

Later, I used to love to tease my butch saying things like: " I think I'll cut my hair, start wearing boots & look butch. What do you think?" she would always have a big laugh and very kindly say: "Baby, you could never look butch if you tried".

I just loved that.

I can so relate to what you both said, Anya and Library_girl. I came out in the late 80s/early 90s when everyone was androgynous. Even when I ran around in Doc Martens, denim cut-offs and Queer Nation t-shirts, I was too femme for the crowd of university-educated feminist dykes I was running around with. Oddly enough, I wasn't femme enough for the working-class butches and studs I grew up with.

The 90s were a lonely and confusing time for me.

Sharing
 

I embraced my gender in my late 20's I was always identifying as a Leather Dyke since that's what fit me, my femininity showed regardless of how I dressed and as I entered my 30's I embraced my Femme as gender simply because it fit. It's who I am, how I am and it makes sense. I stumbled upon other femmes via Leather & the dash site and it was wonderful and amazing to meet, interact and communicate with other Femmes that I could relate to.

In my journey Femme encompasses everything I am even within my own natural masculinity and has yet to be connected to anyone I fuck. I'm Femme regardless if I'm single, fucking, dating, partnered etc. I am Femme period. :)

I thought this was a You KNOW your a femme when, not knew... but I was to post my initial responce to it anyways.

This one is bad but at least for me it's so true...
You know your a femme when you look at a teenage boy and hope their a boi/girl.

... I catch myself doing this all the time. T_T It's kind of pathetic.

I used to wish Scott Baio was a woman!!! Then I found out he's a sexist ass clown!! Bleh:(

HEEEEEL YEEEAH WE DO!!
(ok, i normally lurk, but i just hadda say that!)

I have always been a girly girl, even when riding dirtbikes & ATVs as a not-old-enough-to-drive-a-car teenager.

Growing up, I was always open to my preferences. I always knew I was a bisexual girl-at the very least. When I finally claimed my true lesbian identity, I felt like I was really "me." I made lots of lesbian friends and most of them were butch woman; I have a weakness for butch/andro women.

But, I never really figured I was a femme until I had a chat one day with a very butch friend of mine. We were chatting about our past weekends and she said "Laney you are such an ultra." I was in total denial b/c for me, that equated high maintenance. So she asked me "when you went out Saturday night, how long did it take you to get ready?" Oh no. I replied "start to finish-like from gettting into the shower to walking out?"

"Yes, how long?"

"Um, three hours but I did everything! Shower, shave, blow my hair dry, hairstyling, make-up, make-up enhancements, clothes, shoes and accessories."

Needless to say, she rested her case and I dropped the argument. She then explained that it did not mean I was high maintenance but that I had the abilities and mindset to take femme to another level.

She is right-I even sit pretty ;)



:sparklyheart:

Well, since I didn't come out till later in life, my story of when I knew I was femme is likely not the same as anyone else's, but that's ok with me. *grin*

I have ALWAYS known that the more butch-looking women were attractive to me, I ALWAYS noticed them (and hell yes, even fantasized about them!). But living as a het woman (and eventually as a "well, she must be bi" woman) before coming out in my 40s, I was able to fully embrace and acknowledge that attraction as what made ME hot.

My first gf after coming out was this adorable boi, who ended up as my sub. She was 13 yrs younger than me. VERY butch. When that relationship ended, my next gf was 9 yrs younger, and again VERY butch. In both cases, we just went with the whole "she is a butch and I am a femme" mindset. Both of these women had been out for many many years, and were very comfortable in their identity as butch women. THEY acknowledged my femme-ness, they related to me as a femme, as a counter-point to their butchness. I knew that I wasn't butch, couldn't or wouldn't be able to ID as a butch, so that must have meant I was a femme, right? Isn't that what it meant to be a femme, that I was turned on by and drawn to butch women? I appreciated the uniqueness of those women, and other butch women, even compared to other, perhaps more androgynous-looking lesbians.

But the question then remains, what about ME drew these butch women, appealed to them, and triggered that feeling of the ying to their yang? I mean, I am not one of those that takes hours to get ready (in fact, a couple of my past gf's always took longer that me to get ready!). I am much more comfortable in a pair of jeans and a t-shirt and sneakers than skirt and heels. Will I wear a dress or skirt? Of course. Not likely to wear heels, as they are uncomfortable to ME, and I frankly prefer to be comfortable. Also the fact that I am 5'11", I have enough height. I cannot remember the last time I had a manicure, never have had a pedicure, I do like to wear eye make-up, but not usually lipstick.

OK, before everyone throws stuff at me, I KNOW the above paragraph is chock full of stupid stereotypes. However, in poking around BFP and other sites over the years, it seems like there are a lot of people who almost hold those stereotypes as the norm or litmus test of what makes a femme a femme. IE if a woman is to be considered a femme, she needs to look like _____. (fill in the blank)

So how do I know I am a femme, and how am I a counterpoint specifically to butch women? If I don't fit that stereotypical "look", can I still carry the Femme ID card? (you guys all know there IS a card, right?)

Obviously, imo, the essence of femme-ness FOR ME is not bought at a clothing store, or by having acrylic nails painted JUST so, or by how long it takes me to to get ready to leave the house on a date. It, FOR ME, is how I suddenly seem to feel 'softer' when I am around a butch woman. More feminine-FEELING (if not always looking). It is how my heart races just that little bit more. My body language may change a bit.

Do I think that those butch women that I am so attracted to are somehow 'better' or 'stronger' or more capable than me? Oh hell NO! (in fact, when I used to be in the BDSM lifestyle, my favorite 'toys' were bois/butch women! I was "The Ma'am", and I had ALL the power! Admittedly, as a switch, my favorite people to bottom to were butch Tops. Yummy!)

To me, as a femme, it comes down to an entirely internal identifying mechanism. I FEEL more feminine around butch women. Being feminine doesn't mean less than, incapability in any way, or even that as a femme, I MUST adopt a nurturing role with that butch. Altho, even though I do love to nurture and spoil, past gf's seem to have capitalized on that. Who doesn't want to be spoiled, right?

Well, nuff from me on this now. Great topic and thread.

Thank you for saying this.

As a Femme with really short hair and most often without makeup on my face and generally in Jeans...

Thank You!

Yea to both Julie and June!!

I am FEMME!!
 

Yes!! Femme is also cock hangin', boot wearing mean mother fucking Daddy!!

WOOF!

Hi Arkansas,

I just read your post... I came out as a Femme in the late 70's -- Sometime in the early 90's I decided I did not want to be Femme anymore and if anybody referred to me as Femme, I would challenge them. I was tired of being boxed in and tired of people saying I was not a true lesbian. Whatever -- I was not as secure back then. That lasted a few years -- A live in relationship with another Femme was enough for me to say - Screw THIS! I am a Femme who loves Butches and I am not denying it anymore.

I dated a butch, she was good for me in one or two ways. I was still teetering on the edge and protective of my identity. She said to me... You can deny you are a Femme all you want (she was much older than I was)... But, just look at the way you stand - perfect ballerina stance (lol) and how you speak your language. No matter what I wore -- Baggy Jeans, workshirt and work boots in the garden... I am Femme. And as Snow said (Cock Wearing) -- Does not make you less of a Femme (remember that older butch - nuff said). Top or Bottom. Femme is Femme. It is the core of our being and at almost 50 -- I am finally not putting up with other people and their bullshit. I am not allowing others to box me in.

Nobody can take anything away from us. NOTHING. Not our feminism, our lesbianism, our femme - NOTHING.

I also remember when I first joined a site (like this - an old one) I felt so out of place. I thought, GOD -- Look at these gorgeous glamorous women... I will never be one of them. I will never look like them. No, I will not ever look like them... I will look like me. Simple Julie. The girl who rarely wears makeup... Who crops her hair. Oh and the girl who just loves her flannel granny (oh so sexy) nightgowns with her ugg boots.

You are beautiful just as you are. None of us are alike and that is what makes us so profoundly amazing.

Julie (and I am so happy to meet you)

Aw, this post gave me the warm fuzzies.

Agreed. Sometimes I feel like I don't really read as femme because I can't wear heels anymore. It's stupid, but it's what goes on in my head.

I totally agree femme is not about make-up, heels, etc. Never wear heels or use makeup, well ok, occasionally I will powder my nose if it is shiny and I guess I have been known to curl my eyelashes-hey I like how it looks.

I wear my hair long just because it feels like *me*.

Joking aside, those are superficial things.

To me, femme is an essence, the counterpoint to a butch, the ying and yang, my complement, if you will.

The same way I can spot a butch a mile away in a snowstorm, I can spot a femme, regardless of how she is dressed.

Lady Snow,

Girlfriend, I do love the way you think! This brings me back to the first time I tried using a harness and cock to fuck my girlfriend. It was WEIRD, I tell you! But then again, so was the first time I Topped someone, as oppose to being the bottom. Certainly it took some mental work to get into the headspace I thought was needed by me to do that. LOL

I think that Femme can also be cock hangin, boot wearing mean mother fucking... Ma'am!

I don't fuck with a cock because I'm topping, nor do I view being penetrated as bottoming how I enjoy sex (which to me is pleasure nothing to do with the binary) has nothing (for me) to do with my gender (Femme). That's the beauty of it all for me Femme is raw, unapologetic POWER.. That's HOT!

So very happy to meet you, Julie!!

Starbuck,

Thanks for your response. This has me wondering now too, since you ID (and others have too) as a "soft femme". What constitutes a "soft" femme?

Ann

i discovered femme ID through wanting butches. i was pretty androgynous. In some ways, i still am. i am probably andro on the femme side if one is just using those terms descriptively.

i like the fact that i stretch the definition some. If someone butched me up, i probably could pass as a butch.

Still, i am femme even though i am not that feminine. i am femme even though i will date other femmes. i am femme because i decided i was femme at some point and made it mine.

:moonstars: Thats the stone-femme vs. soft-femme for me at least. A stone-femme is girly girl 24-7, doesn't leave the house without makeup, wont do activities that might break a nail or mess her hair. Where as a soft-femme is more likely to go hiking, jump into the ocean, risk breaking a nail or fix a toilet, that kind of thing. XD

Differences!
 

I'm a stone femme till I'm not, it's more when I'm fucking, strapping that it's present. I don't want to be touched *I* want to be the one touching and fucking. If I'm getting blown no matter how deep down the throat my cock is he better keep his balance on his own since I forbid touch. My attire or cosmetics have nothing to do with my stone self. That's just another view of stone. :)


Lovin' this thread!

Snow, thanks for your clarification! That is what I thought the definition of Stone was, having more to do with sex than a mindset or look? I knew a woman years ago that ID'd as a Stone Butch, she always told me that was because she did NOT allow anyone to touch her, she only would be the one touching. It had nothing to do with her having a more masculine "look" with her short hair or her body language and stride or the clothing that she wore.
And as others have now written in this thread, being a "soft" femme or a "soft" butch, to Me, may just be the fact that they ID closer to the middle or centrist place on the spectrum, rather than to one extreme or another. Kind of like in politics, not the far right or far left, but a moderate. Does this make sense?

Part of me right now is wondering why we (me?) have such a NEED to pinpoint and label something like this. Put it in a box, so to speak. Do we think we will understand it better, if the idea is safely and tightly locked away inside that box? Silly, huh?

This brings to mind the year that I "butched up" for a Halloween costume contest. White t-shirt, leather vest, black jeans, Daddy's cap, fake handlebar mustache, long flogger hanging from my belt. I actually won first place at that contest (noone could believe it was me!) I adopted a stance, adopted a very masculine stride, had a masculine PRESENCE!

What was REALLY hilarious with that get up is the story of me packing, and what happened for THAT! Now I think I am gonna have to hold on to THAT particular story till the Reunion this October. ROFL

Loving this!!
 

What a great way to describe it Gemme, I have many compartments to my Femme... To name a few..

Stone

Daddy

Leather

Master

They are all compartmentalized in their neat little tiny pieces of me who is the main vessel of Femme Fabulousity. Each tiny compartment is a piece of me. It's vital and important... I find Femme to be beautiful regardless of size, shape, race, presentation. We are fierce, feminine, masculine, strong, virile forces of nature... The high low hierarchy drives me bananas, because it leads to a better than and leaves our sister Femme's in a place of questioning.. I'm glad a bunch of us are in here displaying our differences proudly and talking about it, questioning, laughing, discussing and getting to know one another.... :praying:

Long ago, I came to know “femme” as an adjective which I applied to myself. Now, I know myself to be Femme, a proper noun. It’s empowering to know who you are. Thank you all for reflecting back the many strong, beautiful, powerful faces of Femme. :bunchflowers:

I am not sure this is where this belongs, but the thread moved me to where I really felt like I had to get this off my chest... I hope I do not offend anyone.

I don't know that I can even say I know I am a femme. When people see me they think straight. When I see me I don't know what I think.
I don't feel gay, I don't feel straight, I don't feel bi, and if I am really honest, I do not know I could define any of those things, much less define something as complex and confusing (to me) as “femme” or “butch.” Based on superficial appearance type criteria and the fact that a lesbian friend of me told me I am femme, that is what I think I am. In day to day life I do not “identify” as anything.

I am hesitant to share this next part because as independent as I like to think I am I do worry about what people will think of me. Here it goes

I am not out.

I chose to disclose this because, for a person that is almost always surrounded by people, I feel pretty alone having no one to talk to about this. The vast majority of my friends are straight and all but one of my lesbian friends think I am straight.

Plus I am here to make friends, not get laid, if I am not honest about who I am how can I expect that to happen? If someone is turned off or offended by my decision, that is their prerogative, and I just say, “Fine. Don’t date me."


The butch thing for me is based on a pretty small sample size. I am honest about the fact I am not out and that leaves me in a pretty small dating pool, limited typically to people that are looking for NSA sex. That is not really my scene, but my life had some dramatic changes about 2 years ago and about 3 months ago I made some decisions that many would condemn me for. As a result, I had my first encounters with women. I have kissed two women (yes, only two total) one was femme and the other was butch (both of these id’s were their own and formed my cursory understanding of these terms based on appearance and attitude)

Before the kisses, I did not know much about either of these women other than the femme was attracted to me and I was attracted to the butch. Kissing the femme did nothing for me and felt awkward (sadly, I did not stop there and she ended up being batshit crazy. The lesson learned: Making decisions with a lonely vagina leads to 60 psychotic emails and texts a day that either started off with “Dear Goddess” or “Dear Heartless Bitch.” Fun times.)

Anyhoo…

Kissing the butch curled my toes, but I had gotten my emotional and psychological teeth kicked in by "the femme" only 3 months before meeting "the butch", so it stayed at only a kiss (ok, so I straddled her lap a bit… did I mention, the toe curling?)

When I see femme women I think, “She is beautiful. I wish I looked like that, walked like that, or dressed like that, etc…”, when I see butch women I think, “She is beautiful. I sure would like her to [censored] and I would sure like to [censored]”

Well, there it is. Any thoughts are appreciated. I have always known I was attracted to women, I just assumed it was something I had to live without. I fucked up and opened Pandora's box and it is all pretty painful and awful right now.

FWIW: If you choose to flame me I think a private message would be best so as to not ruin this great thread. Be warned though, I am tougher than I sound right now.