Safety in a Failing Economy
 

People across the world are concerned with the economic systems, food safety and how they might survive a natural catastrophic event. I know that many of you are on fixed incomes, perhaps SS and government programs that help subsidize your income. In the event there was a shut down or program cuts, how would it effect you and what is your back-up plan?

I think that people are waking up to the fact that its best to cut your overhead, live more simple and that happiness is not about the things you have but the freedom to free from "things". I would like to open a discussion and invite everyone to share ideas, concerns and solutions.

I'd like to open the discussion with one of my favorite topics "Sustainability". No matter where you live you can begin to look at ways to sustain on some level. Recycling, container gardens, the purchases you make, what you do with trash, etc.

There is a thread here called "Tiny Houses".
Some great ideas and links on small structures. This is an excellent way to escape that huge mortgage and drastically reduce your overhead.

Another thread "Growing and Preserving Food"

No matter the size or location of your home you can grow healthy organic food and preserve it. This lowers your food cost and insures food safety. Let's discuss it.

We also have "Survivalists and Preppers"
Things to have and prepare in the event of a disaster.

There are also several threads on communal living. An excellent idea to cut cost, get help/support. If ever there was a time for us to ban together and network, now is the time.

rather then get into debates over political issues I'd like to focus on ideas and solutions. I'd like to welcome people to start networking and considering communal living. Work your idea here, post to meet others who share your ideas and how you might come together and make life easier. I see so many of you doing the same thing. Why not do it together? Lets us all help moderate and mediate learning ways to overcome the challenges and obstacles.

Please share!

how sweet thank you! Please post and join us.

If you lost your job tomorrow and had no access to welfare or government assistance what would you do?

If I lost my job tomorrow....

I would have to get another job. I live in an apartment and am not very outdooresy. I guess I could be if my life depended on it though. I am a city girl, but I can work hard.

I admit that communal living makes me happiest. I at least like to have a roomate, if not several. It takes so much pressure off to have multiple incomes and skill sets...though in every situation I have lived like this it was me offering the stability.

Keep in mind I'm not trying to scare or stress you.

Would getting another job be easy? I have at least a dozen friends right now without a job collecting unemployment and they really want jobs.

Everyone has their strengths. When you partner with others as roommates, housemates, etc someone can cook, another cleans, another gardens, etc. I think its important to find these strengths when pulling your team together. Most of it is shared, however as you pointed out, you're not an outdoor person but this doesnt mean you can't help. right? Or maybe you can learn, share, do other things?

What is your biggest concern living with others and why have you not moved in this direction already?

No pressure. I'm here to help you sort it out loud.

safety net
 

First I would panic for about 15mins...Then have a hella yardsale..pack up and
head for the mountains...
I'm lucky that I can always go back to the family home-place in the mountains, growing up we used to raise pigs cows chickens and a large garden, would take some work as the land has laid fallow for the last 20 year but it could be done.

I hear you! I honestly feel the safest in the woods/mountains. I think learning basic living skills, regardless where you live is important. I see you are in NC. Perhaps we could meet up and have a little get together for some of these city folks to learn some country skills in the event they needed it.

This post will be on housing.

Is anyone in construction? I'd like to get some cost to post.

If you review the thread Tiny Houses you'll see a simple shed structure someone took and made a cabin. Today almost every city has a rent to own shed company. You need to find one that makes quality, home like structures. They are basic. If you're handy and can do your own work inside great!

Or what about a used RV hooked up? You insulate the pipes, add a deck or even another small room. Can you live in a small space? Many do. Imagine how affordable to live this way?

How many are living in small tiny houses now?

How many people are considering making this move and downsizing to save money?

I recently got out of a long term relationship and do actually have a roommate. I was freaked out after the break up, stayed with friends a couple of months and we tried to find a house together, but ended up with apartments in same complex.

I am in a rebuilding and figuring out what I want stage. :)

I think at this point I could get another job because I have varied skill sets and know a lot of people...but as I start looking older who knows? and you are right, things are tough economically.

Great thread S, its making me think about what I really do want and need.

If things got really bad I would move to Dalton, GA and live with my buddy Beth. :) Keep her house clean and do catering for movies with her.

I build things, including small, off the grid structures.
I try to have this conversation often, I look forward hearing from people here.

I have a life time lease on 20 acers out in the back woods of Louisiana,there is a cabin,deep well,plenty of game with a little used lake that joins the property.My son and I can bug out to it if needed,the cabin is made of brick and stone and has a fire place 10 feet wide and 4 feet deep with a 2 foot drop in the floor of it to keeep the ashes and wood form falling or embers going to far the grate is steel...yeah I know its kinda mid evile but sturdy as can be.My cousin owns the property but has no intrest in it,there is enough room to plant a guarden have some live stock to boot its so wooded that as I chop trees for the fire place I can clear it as I go.The only reson I dont stay there now is its location.When my uncle was liveing he took enough solor panels and all it takes to put them up in the cabin.Uncle is old army he set it up real good.

we look forward to your ideas. can you share with us in laymans terms? lol

Nice thread.

I am on disability and MediCal currently because of my PTSD and panic disorder. I live with my folks because the only other choice at the time I moved in with them was to go into a psych hospital. I have been to a psych hospital before, when I was 15, and lemme tell ya they are not a good place to get better. If anything it makes you more afraid and depressed and hopeless feeling.

Anyhoo, I barely get by on what the government gives me. I pay my folks a little rent and I have a couple other monthly bills. That plus gas money to go to my therapist once a week (an hours drive away) and the occasional outing (to safe places) - that leaves VERY little left over for anything else each month.

If I were to lose my benefits, I would be up shit creek. I need my health care because of my ongoing medical issues. My fall back would be my folks. They would have to pay for everything. They are retired and on fixed incomes and this would be a terrible burden on them financially. I would be sucking up their retirement savings just to live. That would be my only alternative. If I didn't have my folks and couldn't get any medical care, I have no freakin' idea what I would do. Probably die somehow-someway.

I started a biomicicry and permaculture thread a few weeks ago. It dovetails into this.

Economics is a system dependent on natural systems (the earth). The parent system is the natural world. The money changing game is a subset of that system, and as the fortunes or misfortunes of the planet go, so go our own.

Although more people will focus on the Kardasians today, some of the real news includes a little article that offers an even stronger message by the Intergovernmental Panel for Climate Change that the extreme weather we are seeing more and more of is linked to climate change. And the losses are mounting.

In the past year, I insulated more, bought a couple used bikes, built more cold frames, got a wood insert for the fireplace and saved old windows and found as much reclaimed wood materials as I could over to work with a skilled carpenter to build a sturdy greenhouse. I would recommend the same and the following if at all possible:

1) Plant nut and fruit trees and bushes.

2) Build a greenhouse.

3) Start cultivating alternative energy sources - a wood stove, a wood insert, a 150 watt (or greater) solar panel and battery bank, a small turbine, etc. And consider insulation and anything done for efficiency's sake as important.

4) Create cold frames (very simple to make and old windows are great for this too). In some zones, you can grown year round in cold frames.

5) Start developing some useful skills and tools - e.g., mounting turbines, fixing bikes, preserving food, amending soil, etc.

6) Start treating water like the precious thing it is. Buy a rain barrel. Buy a cistern. Start a wet garden.

7) Have a disaster plan (often said - more relevant than ever).

8) Get to know your neighbors.

9) Make, build or reinforce where you are living as though a fire, flood or strong wind will come through.

10) If you have leaves (or other compostables), heat and time, you have soil. Start "making" your own soil.

11) Stop buying into the idea that the solutions must be bought. You have, can and will do many things on your own that do not require endless trips to Wal-mart and Target. Grow your food, grow your community, grow your mind.

I have to admit that stuff like this is very intimidating to me. I am not handy. As a matter of fact I am actually the exact opposite of handy. Everything I have ever tried to put together, I have screwed up. Sometimes it’s usable, sometimes only parts of it are.

I put this storage cabinet together but I put the shelves in upside down and the cans would slide off because it slanted in the wrong direction. But if you kept the doors, which I managed to put on right, closed it was okay.

Another time I put together this tv stand that had shelves and doors but when I finished you couldn’t use the doors. Unfortunately for some reason I wasn’t able to take it apart and fix it so the person I made it for was stuck with it like that. She didn’t make me feel bad and even thanked me but I don’t remember her ever asking me to put anything together again. Nobody ever does. At least not more than once.

They have come for my butch card but I always manage to hide.

I can paint though, but then who can’t? As long as one’s hands work it shouldn’t be an issue. I couldn’t build the tiny house or do any meaningful work on it, but I could paint the crap out of it.

I fixed a doll cradle I got at a yard sale once. It was off balance. So I took it apart and glued ( I can use glue, but not nails so much) it back together so it rocked and didn’t lean to one side…well not much anyway. And I painted it pink and white with flowers. So I guess I could do useless stuff like that. Not much need for doll cradles though when you are in survival mode.

I won’t even go into my experiences trying to grow stuff. Suffice to say everything dies. I mean I know everything dies, but the things I try to grow never even get a chance to live first.

I can fish though. And hunt if I have to. I am a good shot. I prefer shooting skeet or trap or other target shooting. Balloons blown up and put on water, a lake or a pond will take off right quick and it’s big fun to shoot them with a 22 before they get out of sight. However, I don’t like killing things much. I can do it though. And if I am hungry it probably wouldn’t be a problem at all. But that would be the extent of my ability to survive.

So as much as I love the woods and the outdoors in general, especially any kind of water, I wouldn’t trust my ability to survive on my own. Well, I can start fires and hunt and fish so I would have a very high protein diet. Better than no diet at all.

Truthfully I feel so inadequate around this kind of stuff, I mostly don’t even think about trying anything. I’m all thumbs. But that doesn’t mean I don’t want to live should the shit hit the fan. So I will just stay quiet and keep reading.

I've never been camping. No, never.

I have managed to keep an aloe plant alive for years only to lose it in a break up. :|

I am incredibly unprepared right now...hell, I am even grossed out by worms.

Maybe I need to make sure I take a direct hit if we go to war.

Excellent! Really, really good information in this!
I think it's especially valuable how you reminded us that these are simple steps-- "simple" in the sense of composting, meeting neighbors, and being mindful of water consumption-- they don't take nearly as much complicated management/effort as having a car, for example.
Permaculture is interesting stuff, with so many applications in all areas.
Thanks for this great post!

One thing I do is save money at home,shure I have some in the bank but what if I cant get it out of the bank or even get to the bank.I know I would have to trade my cadi on for a 4wheel drive truck or jeep..

Great info! I just got in after having to drive an hour to fetch organic food. :(
I'll need to come back and reply to a few post but wanted to say this to the people who say they are not handy or not outdoors people...


12 years ago I wore 4 inch heels, big hair and never left the house without makeup. I knew a bit about camping and fishing but nothing about living in the country, taking care of animals or any of that shit. When I first moved out to the everglades, my first real attempt at rural living, I thought I would have a break down. I had no idea what to do and things I never expected happened. But you know what? I did it. I cried, screamed and taught myself everything. Books and the internet didn't help me nearly as much as trial and error. Was it easy? hell no. Is it easy now? NO. BUT I can't even describe the level of freedom I have or the woman all of this has made me. My connections are stronger and even though now I can afford to pay someone, I also love the fact that if I needed to do it I could.

Nothing compares to challenging yourself. Nothing compares to the connection you might be missing with the universe. Get outside, explore and learn how to work with nature.

I appreciate the honesty of this, Miss Tick. Einstein said, “I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious.” That's what matters. Stay curious and interested. Everyone starts at a beginning.

I'd like to see a future Planetary gathering to be an offering of homesteading, off-the-grid, permaculture and survival classes. Hint, hint Sachita :farmbull::farmchicken::farmtractor::farmcow:

Hell yes! Let's all gather at Sachita's and share skills and slow food! Let's do it!

Mi casa yo casa- have at it. I have 25 acres back there, 30 total, nice creek, greenhouse, all waiting to be used.

what is slow food? lol is that a typo?

don't take classes- submerge yourself into life and survive that!

but seriously, any time you wanna tackle it, pitch a tent, yurt, rv out here and learn/work, have at it. I don't wanna see no cry babies though. lol ok ok go ahead and cry then get up and do it again.

I'm open to any kind of class or get together involving sustainability, outdoors, survival, gardening, (I suck at preserving so someone else needs to teach that)

you can even live in my woods long as you take care of it and help me garden. If you eat eggs you gotta also clean the coop now and then,

What I keep thinking about as I read this thread is that most poor people simply can't do this kind of stuff. They have no land where they can grow food. They have no money to buy disaster supplies. They get by on so little that keeping a roof over their heads and food in their mouths is hard enough, let alone investing time and money into gardening and solar power, etc. I like the idea of community gardens, but they aren't enough to keep people regularly fed.

In disasters, it's always the poorest of the poor (and disproportionately, those people are POC) who get hit the hardest. I am thinking of Katrina here as an example. They couldn't prepare and get out because they had no cars/gas money, etc to get out before the hurricane hit. People who are poor and live in urban areas would have the hardest time pulling off sustainable living. It's sad but true.

what can't poor people do?

when faced with a economic challenge and unable to import food, Havana, Cuba ( a poor country) did this:




There are plenty of farms outside NYC cheap and or offering ANYONE a chance to farm free, live and work, partner. Maybe its true that they don't have knowledge of all the resources but they are most certainly there.

I don't think I even want to depend on solar. I like the idea of it now because I'm conditioned to use power, however if shit really hot the fan or the cost of EVERYTHING went up, can you afford the parts to upkeep solar?

I know a couple living in Maine who go to bed when it gets dark. They heat and cook with wood. They use some gas to power their boat to fish. They collect lots of things to eat in the water and woods, preserve it and when they can they grow and can. They can't afford too much else. They are happy and doing what they love. They don't have to worry about losing a job, right? lol

My uncle told me once that no matter who or where u wre if u get with like mindes people chances of servival are better,u may not think u have anything to offer in skills but u will be surprised at the things u will be able to do.Just use this as a pretend..im choping wood others can be stacking it by sise or help in cooking,cleaning or jusy giveing moral support besides as the group progresses new skill can be learned by those who want to do do,asfar as im conserned "cant" dose not exist.

Found this online:
"What is Slow Food?
Slow Food is an idea, a way of living and a way of eating. It is a global, grassroots movement with thousands of members around the world that links the pleasure of food with a commitment to community and the environment."

But mostly my friends use "slow food" as a way to describe the pleasure- and THE WORK - of food that they grew themselves, foraged for, traded for, made for themselves by canning or pickling.... Etc.
We use that term as a way to express the commitment to ourselves that we don't find virtue (or good flavors) in "buying" food in 21st-century-US-supermarket-ways.

Sounds stuffy to describe, but it's fun, interesting and home-brewed beer makes the girls go crazy!

I love it!

Hi-
I do not mean to pick on your post. You just expressed what a lot of people think, because of a system that has an absolute interest in keeping people "victims".
The point is: There is no alternative. The way capitalism destroys earth, and everything on it can't continue. Having an opinion that "poor people can't live sustainable lives" not only takes away their agency and shows a lack of confidence in their resiliency and ingenuity, but it diverts attention away from the institutional systems in place that inhibit them (and or legally forbid) them from acting in their own best interest. Health department red tape about selling/trading food you've grown, anyone?

It's clear that poor people get hit hardest by everything, including situations like the levees failing in the poor neighborhoods of New Orleans. (I refuse to call it "katrina"- it was corps-of-engineered racism.) but it's also clear that there are millions (billions?) more poor people than rich people, so they must be smart enough to figure out survival techniques, no?

What I, as a white US citizen see my role as is this:
Consume less. Grow more, eat what I grow and help others do the same.
Support anti-oppression organizing at local, national and international levels.
Expose and dismantle systems that keep peolple from using their local resources in their own interests.
Use the information and resources so richly available to me as a US citizen to figure out ways to heal the earth, try to make sure this info is shared fairly.

I'm not some pie-in-the-sky intellectual. I build and fix things for an hourly wage. I think it's because of working at that level that is easy to see when shit needs to be ripped down and rebuilt, rather than patched. And also to see when structures can be repaired or re-purposed in service of a more worthy goal.

I am not saying the poor can't do things. They are as capable as anyone. I guess I am just thinking, that when you work 2 minimum wage jobs to keep a roof over you and your children's heads, worry about how to get them clothes for school, can't afford a babysitter, can't afford a doctor, having to apply for food stamps, etc., how is one to have any time or energy to put into sustainable living?

Ok, so what do you suggest? Let's talk about what we CAN do.

Good reference. Cuba is the post Peak Oil model, and if anyone hasn't seen the documentary "The Power of Community," you should. It's inspiring.

Part of my vision with my farm involved teaching, learning and sharing. My farm has to be put on hold for now, but I would be happy to help support a gathering at Sachita's or elsewhere.

I understand your point, Drew, and I know people have to make choices they don't always want to. But seeds cost almost nothing, and even if you don't have land, you probably have a window and a pot. I grew a garden in different rented spaces, and I consumed less, recycled, walked or biked, read botany books and made other choices that didn't involve a lot of time or expense.

I honestly don't know. I think there are so many things that need to happen to lift up the people in poverty in the US. A lot of those things are being addressed by the Occupy movement right now. I think it would be great if we all had some option to "live off the grid" so to speak. I am not the best at being able to answer your question because I happen to be someone with very little money myself.

I live with my folks and I am on disability. They live in a planned community where the home owners association tells you what you can and can't do with your tiny front and back yards. Anything you do to your home, including what color you paint it, is dictated by the HOA here. And my folks are retired and don't have the physical ability to plant anything. They pay people to mow their lawn every week. I have agoraphobia so going out of the house isn't exactly easy for me. I don't mind trying to fix things or putting them together as long as I am in the house.

I think all the ideas put forth in this thread are great. I just don't know how people without much in the way of resources (such as moi) would be able to put them into practice. Does that somehow offend you dykeumentary?

In my opinion, and speaking as a low income person, what I have often thought of is low income people need to pool resources like they did in old days. If you take 3-4 peoples income, abilities, and talents and have them share a home, food etc, they would be much better off. If one person is disabled and cannot do gardening, then maybe they can be in charge of bills. The person who is not so good with finances could take care of the gardening and so on. We live in such singular society that people are not so open to revisiting the past where it was a much more nuclear family situation. Just a thought.