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genghisfawn 01-20-2012 12:27 PM

Catholicism
 
Hi folks,

Are there any other Catholics out there? Of course there are issues of patriarchy and heterosexism in the Church itself, but what parts, if any, of Catholicism have you kept in your life and daily faith?

Belonging to a parish is hard for me as I'm queer and out. There are two parishes in town where I'd gladly belong if I could just take the plunge...

Another issue is taking the Eucharist. It's part of my tradition that I find very important, but there are no options besides taking the Blood of Christ for celiacs at present. If I belonged to a parish, there may be something I could do to work things out, but belonging to a parish also means being an out queer, and that's another story!

So here I am, trying to take the lessons of social justice, God's love and a devotion to Our Mother with me as I limp through faith... what's your story?

<3

The_Lady_Snow 01-20-2012 12:34 PM

Me
 
My Catholocism is ingrained in me via culture.. Other than that I have some pretty harsh, blunt, direct opinions about Catholic Doctrine and the puppet master, most may know him as the pope

UofMfan 01-20-2012 12:35 PM

I am a Roman Catholic. No surprise there, being that I come from a country where 95% of the population is Roman Catholic.

I do not subscribe to all of the Roman Catholic theology or ideology, but I have learned to mix some of the tradtions and beliefs into my own form of spiritualism, not religion.

My First Communion was also my last one.

There is a lot more, but to me religion is a bit personal.

Glenn 01-20-2012 05:14 PM

I absolutely adore the Holy Mother. She is so beautiful! I love reading about her visitations and miracles. Yes, I attended Mass regularly when I lived close to a Catholic church. I accept the best of what all Religions have to offer.

Ciaran 01-20-2012 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genghisfawn (Post 509002)
Hi folks,

Are there any other Catholics out there? Of course there are issues of patriarchy and heterosexism in the Church itself, but what parts, if any, of Catholicism have you kept in your life and daily faith?

Belonging to a parish is hard for me as I'm queer and out. There are two parishes in town where I'd gladly belong if I could just take the plunge...

Another issue is taking the Eucharist. It's part of my tradition that I find very important, but there are no options besides taking the Blood of Christ for celiacs at present. If I belonged to a parish, there may be something I could do to work things out, but belonging to a parish also means being an out queer, and that's another story!

So here I am, trying to take the lessons of social justice, God's love and a devotion to Our Mother with me as I limp through faith... what's your story?

<3

I am a Roman Catholic. I don't subscribe to all of the church's teachings, past or present, but my faith is strongly Roman Catholic in belief, instinct and practice.

My Catholicism conveys itself in an unequivocal belief in original sin and a need for atonement; I am somewhat drawn towards Opus Dei. I also believe unreservedly in the existence of Satan and other demonic forces and my Catholicism is important to me in providing comfort against this unseen evil. I acknowledge that much of my belief system would be viewed as out-dated to many contemporary Catholics.

I do not take eucharist although I attend mass on a reasonably frequent basis. Sometimes I choose to attend the Soho Masses - http://www.sohomasses.com/ . These are masses aimed at LGBT people, their families and friends that are held in London twice-monthy. Unsurprisingly, these masses are not without controversy within the church but attending these is positive, reaffirming and uplifting for me.

Sparkle 01-20-2012 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genghisfawn (Post 509002)
Hi folks,

Are there any other Catholics out there? Of course there are issues of patriarchy and heterosexism in the Church itself, but what parts, if any, of Catholicism have you kept in your life and daily faith?

/snip

So here I am, trying to take the lessons of social justice, God's love and a devotion to Our Mother with me as I limp through faith... what's your story?

<3

I am a former Catholic for many reasons, some of which you alluded to. After my confirmation I consciously chose not to be a part of the Church or any organized religion. Of course, I attend the major sacraments when they are meaningful to those I love: christenings, weddings, last rites and funerals . But it has been at least 21years since my last confession. :)

However there are many good things I took from my religious education and participation in the Church.

While I no longer identify as a Christian, I believe that the teachings of Christ are wonderful parables for how we should *be* ... kind of a "good practice" guide to being a decent human being.

I credit the Church with inspiring in me my feminism at a very early age. I was outraged (at the age of 5) to discover I could never become an altar boy or a priest simply because I was a girl; and I spent the next decade wearying poor old Father Barker with "but why?".

Similarly, I give the Church credit for first fostering my critical thinking skills.

And I believe that having the courage of my convictions, (the strength to live each day in big and small ways according to what I believe to be good and true and right), is a result of my time in the Catholic Church.

Saint Joan was my hero and my role model and the religious figure I revered the most as a child.

I also recognise that for many people the Church provides solace and a sense of community, and I think those are wonderful and necessary things to have in your life, where ever you may find them.

And when I think of my time in the Church it is inextricably linked to my Grandmother. She found great solace there: in her understanding of God, in the rituals and in the community. And I would say 1000 rosaries for the opportunity to sit next to her through Mass just one more time.

I wish you all the best, genghisfawn, in finding a place to express your faith.

girl_dee 01-20-2012 08:15 PM

i enjoy a connection to the Saints as well as other deities that guide me through life.

i was raised Catholic, with a twist of Santeria (Voodoo) for extra measure. I have denounced the Catholic Religion (and have very strong opinions about it completely) but everyday carry the Saints and of course the Blessed Mother (aka Yemaya ) with me at all times.

i channel the Voodoo priestesses of the past when i need to, enjoy cleansing rituals, i use medals and gris gris to keep me safe.



genghisfawn 01-22-2012 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by June (Post 509005)
Hey, ghengis --

I am reading you as wanting to hear from other, practicing Catholics, and not folks who have had negative experiences?

I think that's good. I also know that this can be a fiery topic and hope that people will be respectful and participate in the spirit of this thread.

:)

Hi June,

I'm not looking for all positivity... the Church is as conflicted as its members, and I'm not interested in just devout Catholics or still-practicing Catholics, but a place where people can discuss current issues, care for each other spiritually and offer fellowship. :)

Thanks for all the great responses and messages, folks... I'm really appreciating the community here!

ButchEire 01-22-2012 11:12 AM

I am Catholic and adhere to most (no, not all) of the core beliefs. I don't expect or require that anyone agree with my personal beliefs but I respect differences and expect the same kind of respect. Is it a struggle? Absolutely. I know i'm a minority in terms of my belief system and have been under fire for that but again, I don't have interest in changing what others believe or don't believe. At the same time, I find solace in the foundations of the church and even in the actual structures of the church. It works for me and no, I don't agree with the controversy regarding hiding the wrongdoings of people who work in the church but they don't define me, nor do they define my faith.

Ciaran 01-22-2012 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ButchEire (Post 510564)
It works for me and no, I don't agree with the controversy regarding hiding the wrongdoings of people who work in the church but they don't define me, nor do they define my faith.

I think that's a very important point in all of this. Although the Church has a rather complex and very hierarchical structure, faith is a personal thing.

Whether we agree with all or most or some of the Church's teachings and the viewpoints of those in authority at any given time in the Church, the Church is a channel through which some of us can channel our faith. In my view, it's not very dissimilar to someone being proud to be an American citizen but disliking the viewpoint of the incumbent President or the political structures of the USA.

genghisfawn 01-22-2012 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran (Post 510575)
I think that's a very important point in all of this. Although the Church has a rather complex and very hierarchical structure, faith is a personal thing.

Whether we agree with all or most or some of the Church's teachings and the viewpoints of those in authority at any given time in the Church, the Church is a channel through which some of us can channel our faith. In my view, it's not very dissimilar to someone being proud to be an American citizen but disliking the viewpoint of the incumbent President or the political structures of the USA.

I think that's a very useful allegory, Ciaran... it's true that while I don't agree with everything in the Church, we have to remember that the Church is made up of people and people are fallible. God is strong and God is infallible... this is why my faith and heart rest with Him and not the Church. This is why I pray and use intercessory prayer to confess and give thanks rather than rely on clergy. This is why I am still able to be Catholic.

genghisfawn 01-22-2012 01:09 PM

Hilarious itinerant priest
 
Funny story time!!!

So I'm visiting my bestie in the small, rural town where she teaches. She's currently doing RCIA in a conversion from secular Judaism. Their priest is visiting his mother, who's dying, so we had an itinerant priest from a local large-city seminary.

The Gospel was Matthew 4: 18-20 (ish) about Simon Peter and his brother Andrew leaving their boat with Jesus to be fishers of men. Somehow this priest totally twisted the thing around and gave this tiny town a grand homily on fornication, how you shouldn't lust for your spouse and how getting a boner just out of nowhere (which I'm assured that some people do) is adultery in your mind.

As we were leaving, Bestie's friend said, "How does becoming fishers of men translate into dildoes and internet porn?" I just commented on how itinerant priests always talk about sex because they can get away with it just by going home.

What was the funniest homily you ever heard?

imadiva 01-22-2012 02:33 PM

Being Catholic
 
While I don't follow the "Rules" of the church .. I do go to mass because I find it a very peaceful place to talk to God.
My church is old and it's beautiful with dark wood and marble a very old school feel and it is just so quiet and you can feel a presence there. I take communion because I feel that I am at peace with God and I don't have to confess to anyone what I do. I won't hide who I am I want you to see me and my family. We are the only same-sex family the is out at my church and yes people sometimes stare or I' m sure comment but oh well get over yourself ..I am not changing my religion to please anyone .

adorable 01-22-2012 08:22 PM

I'm actually a bad United Methodist. However, I spent a year of Sunday's at Mass in Eastern Orthodox Churches. I was doing research and that is where the people I needed to talk to were. I couldn't understand the service because it was in Hungarian, Latin or Romanian (depending on where I was.) I must say that loved the history and rituals. I particularly loved the chanting and the various roles held during a service. The churches were all very ornate, beautiful and just stunning to look at.

pajama 01-22-2012 08:54 PM

If I am understanding, only a small part of your post...one problem is that you cannot take the eucharist because of the celiac. And can't request a special eucharist if you are not part of church. If this is the case, call around. This has become a very common concern in the church and I'd be surprised if you couldn't find a church that already has special waffers. Until you find your church home, and if you are wanting to take communion, go to one of those churches.

As a recovering Catholic, that's all I got for you.

A

Rockinonahigh 01-22-2012 09:42 PM

Im a recovering cathoilc,thats a big statement as I spent most of my educational years going the a catholic school.Once I was awed by the rituals and traditions of the church,but as I got older and I wasnt following the path of the other girls in my school I was handed to me that I would lead a very hard road if I contenued on my path.That statement was very confuseing to me at the age of 8yro cause I had no idea what or why they said that cause to most people I was just a regular farm raised kid who was a bit of a tomboy not one of the flameing girliy girls in school.My grand prents who were very hard core catholic saw no prob with me and were very open about leting me grow into myself.I am not shure how his came about but a two week summer camp trip became a two year time in a catholic convent school taught by the nuns,what came out of there was a prson who at one point beleaved wholy in the church teachings to a total rebelious one who had no use for it and have and still do feel the church failed me as a beleaver and humble child of God.I know when I got home there wa a prpblem at home between mom and my grand parrents that over the years never really went away.I suspect it had to do with my time at the convent school,never the less over the many years I just feel that the religion is way out of touch with the real worl and had not a leg to stand on because of the persacution it has put on people who it deems unworthy and ungodly.All i can say is they need to clean house before thet run anyone down cause over the centuries it has done some awful things to people in the name of god.
Obtw,I have no prob with Jeasus Christ,he was a good man who did good by many and spread the word of peace,love and careing for one another.I firmly beleave he was a mortal man who preached for the good of mankind just like countless other preachers who truely do good have done.As for a supriem being or higher athority I have a scientific mind that plays wars over this and will for a long time.

StrongButch 12-07-2012 12:19 PM

Catholic
 
Check out my website Photobucket-Qconnection some catholic images.

Sun 12-07-2012 12:42 PM

Hello All,

I saw this thread and thought that I might share a link to Dignity USA, a group
founded by and for lgbtq Catholics. This may help some of you keep a connection to the Church while honoring your selves in your wholeness as people regardless of the poor biblical scholarship and crimes against humanity perpetuated by the Church "leadership".

It is my belief that the body of the Church resides in the people, not the leaders. Catholic people are among the first to give, to reach out in community and offer a hand, to feed the hungry or house the homeless. So do not despair over the ongoing crisis in leadership, there is good in the body of the Church, or as you say, the body of Christ.

One side of my family was Catholic and the other Jehovahs Witness. So I can not claim to have been one or the other, but made my way through that confusion to Unitarian Universalism where I do find many recovering Catholics and a huge "welcoming denomination" as well as the largest # of lgbtq Ministers in the world.

Sun

stargazingboi 12-07-2012 02:43 PM

Hmm I do have a story for you but I will need to come back when I have more time. I have had good and bad experiences...let me put my thoughts together and get back to you.

Ciaran 12-07-2012 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun (Post 713012)


I saw this thread and thought that I might share a link to Dignity USA, a group
founded by and for lgbtq Catholics. This may help some of you keep a connection to the Church while honoring your selves in your wholeness as people regardless of the poor biblical scholarship and crimes against humanity perpetuated by the Church "leadership".

Sun

I genuinely appreciate the well-intended nature of your post. Furthermore, I can understand the reference to "crimes against humanity".

However, I am slightly uneasy by your reference to "poor biblical scholarship". I don't think that, in itself, is a bad thing. I think about faith and my Catholicism a lot. For me, the bible isn't the be all and end all. In fact, far from it. Biblical scholarship doesn't appeal to me.

Give me a living church with its many faults, and worshipers who often fail, rather than something that places too significant focus on writings of previous millenia.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun (Post 713012)

So do not despair over the ongoing crisis in leadership, there is good in the body of the Church, or as you say, the body of Christ.

One side of my family was Catholic and the other Jehovahs Witness. So I can not claim to have been one or the other, but made my way through that confusion to Unitarian Universalism where I do find many recovering Catholics and a huge "welcoming denomination" as well as the largest # of lgbtq Ministers in the world.


I don't despair. There's always been a significant amount of good and evil in the church. There always will be. Good attracts evil, certainly on spiritual matters.

Similarly, there's good and bad in the leadership of the church. I, for one, am confident that the good will triumph over the bad but this will take time and will be a prolonged process. The phrase "Rome wasn't built in a day" is rather apt.

Not all of us here are recovering Catholics or feel the need to look elsewhere for spiritual comfort. I'm openly and unashamedly Roman Catholic and my individual identity, and the insights and the challenges that this provides are fundamental to my Catholicism and how I experience it.

Sun 12-07-2012 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran (Post 713061)
Sun

I genuinely appreciate the well-intended nature of your post. Furthermore, I can understand the reference to "crimes against humanity".

However, I am slightly uneasy by your reference to "poor biblical scholarship". I don't think that, in itself, is a bad thing. I think about faith and my Catholicism a lot. For me, the bible isn't the be all and end all. In fact, far from it. Biblical scholarship doesn't appeal to me.

Ciaran, Please forgive me for offending you with that comment I should have been more specific; the interpretation of Leviticus that has been used to denounce men who are with men, is what I was referring to. That one interpretation, which many biblical scholars and clergy have referred to as "poor biblical scholarship" has been used to oppress for far too long. In the marriage equality movement in the states biblical scholar EJ Graff made strides with her work "What is Marriage For?" listing factual accounts of the history of marriage. Many mainstream fundamentalist religions misinterpret the history or marriage, to fulfill an agenda. In that circle of conversation the term "poor biblical scholarship" was used often.

I do think that it is important that if any institution is going to use a text to teach that the leadership understand the original text prior to translation.

Again I did not intend to offend, rather I was hoping to share the information from Dignity USA as many of my Catholic friends very much enjoy Dignity and have for many years.

NJFemmie 12-07-2012 04:01 PM

I was raised Roman Catholic, but my parents weren't staunch.
When I do go to church, I don't think about my sexuality or worry about how the church is going to view me. I go to church for God, not for anyone else.

I guess after too many years of catholic school, I became immune to the doctrines and the judgments. Only One is going to ultimately judge me, so I figure in the meantime, I just live in my faith in a way that makes me comfortable.

Angeltoes 12-07-2012 04:30 PM

We are not welcome to take the Eucharist, ever. If you are actively homosexual you are automatically out of communion with the Church and in a state of mortal sin. Heck, if you miss a Sunday to watch your nephew in a school play, you are out of communion with the Church and not welcome to take the Eucharist until you've gone to confession and been forgiven. In the faith the Eucharist is actually Jesus, his literal body. Mass is not just a service it's a recreation of his death. When you stand before the alter it's the *same* as being present at the crucifixion. Would you miss the crucifixion or would you consume his flesh while in a state of mortal sin? Of course not. The only way to heaven in the Catholic religion for us is to promise to sin no more and that means to promise never to have a homosexual relationship again.

Sorry, I get emotional about this...I'm a former Catholic and there are so many things I love and miss about the faith and traditions, but I will not accept that I'm hell bound because of who I choose to love. If God and Jesus exist I was made this way for a reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by genghisfawn (Post 509002)
Hi folks,

Are there any other Catholics out there? Of course there are issues of patriarchy and heterosexism in the Church itself, but what parts, if any, of Catholicism have you kept in your life and daily faith?

Belonging to a parish is hard for me as I'm queer and out. There are two parishes in town where I'd gladly belong if I could just take the plunge...

Another issue is taking the Eucharist. It's part of my tradition that I find very important, but there are no options besides taking the Blood of Christ for celiacs at present. If I belonged to a parish, there may be something I could do to work things out, but belonging to a parish also means being an out queer, and that's another story!

So here I am, trying to take the lessons of social justice, God's love and a devotion to Our Mother with me as I limp through faith... what's your story?

<3


genghisfawn 12-07-2012 05:27 PM

Angeltoes, which is why we say prior to the Eucharist (in the newly translated Mass) "Lord, I am not worthy that You should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed." This, like a good condensed Act of Contrition, is an admission of the congregation that we are sinners and we can't help but be as such. My entire Catholic upbringing, among Jesuits, was pretty much the law of, "Well, we're sinners. What does that mean, anyhow? That we were born with the capacity to sin? Instead of saying we suck because we're sinners, we accept that we're made perfectly by God and can only attain grace when we have repented fully when He comes again, so in the meantime try not to hurt anyone and be as good as possible."

This is how I see sin, and my role in the world as a person. I'll repent no more for my queerness than I will for anything else - only God can judge, and I receive the Eucharist as an out queer in my church and nobody has ever stopped me. Their perception of sin may be different from mine, but God is loving - people can be dicks. La fin. :)

stargazingboi 12-07-2012 07:47 PM

I was raised Catholic and hold some very strong beliefs that are still attached to that upbringing. During those years I found differences in the churches acceptance of who I am and how I live and express who I am in this world. In my late 20's I went to my priest and had discussed many of the topics that concerned me over the years regarding the teachings of the church and my life. What I loved about my priest and several others was their view of the scripture and their passion when stating that the bible truly does not mention anything about my life being a sin. They actually were very supportive and re-assured me that "I" was created in the image of God...in a "perfect likeness" and that I was designed and placed on this earth for a purpose.

In one of our many conversations I had mentioned my desire to move forward in the church but could not as the rules stood. It was my priest that advised me to seek out the priest at a local Episcopal church. He stated that there I would find the same teachings as the catholic church, but that there was no confession and all are welcome for communion. He went on to tell me that within that denomination I would find openly gay and lesbian priest and felt I would find what I was seeking there. He was right. I found open arms and began my discernment, studied theology and became a Deacon. I had the privilege of watching the first gay bishop become ordained in NH.

The journey was hard because what is taught in theology classes was not the same as the things preached in Sunday service. My faith was tested many times over. In the theology classes I took, every word of the bible was broken down and challenged. Where each passage came from..who really wrote it...etc.

I had never seen or experienced anything like it...the passion, tears, and joy that revolved around each topic discussed by each person there. At times I felt angry and deceived but found my faith in God remained through it all. As time went on I decided to take sabbatical and became an ordained minister years later while finishing my education as a counselor. I am not currently with a church because of a relocation, but I am never fair from my relationship with God and faith.

I don't agree with everything the church teaches...I have asked many questions and continue to ask...because it was Jesus who said "if you do not ask the questions you shall not find the answer" and this another "if you look under a rock you will find me, if you look under a wood/tree branch you will find me too" it is questioned if God is to have said it or Jesus..but these are parts of the missing bible scriptures..the ones the church deemed not needed for redemption at the time the bible was put together.

I think for each of us it is a journey and each journey is different ...none being right and none being wrong, because it is our own journey. So, I never fight about my beliefs..I may discuss them but I shall never fight over them and ask that others respect and treat me the same.

julieisafemme 12-07-2012 10:15 PM

I am not Catholic but I went to a Jesuit college and I really appreciated that approach to learning. I learned about Dorothy Day there and I love the commitment to social justice in the Catholic faith. I have read about the great work so many orders of nuns have done and in particular that they have taken on the Church in many instances.

ETA I was particularly impressed with Joe Biden's answer in the debates this year about how his faith informs his public service.

Ciaran 12-08-2012 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun (Post 713076)
Ciaran, Please forgive me for offending you with that comment I should have been more specific; the interpretation of Leviticus that has been used to denounce men who are with men, is what I was referring to. That one interpretation, which many biblical scholars and clergy have referred to as "poor biblical scholarship" has been used to oppress for far too long. In the marriage equality movement in the states biblical scholar EJ Graff made strides with her work "What is Marriage For?" listing factual accounts of the history of marriage. Many mainstream fundamentalist religions misinterpret the history or marriage, to fulfill an agenda. In that circle of conversation the term "poor biblical scholarship" was used often.

I do think that it is important that if any institution is going to use a text to teach that the leadership understand the original text prior to translation.

Again I did not intend to offend, rather I was hoping to share the information from Dignity USA as many of my Catholic friends very much enjoy Dignity and have for many years.



Sun - there was no offence taken.


I was simply indicating that my religion isn't a part of a textbook but a part of my DNA. I don't know what my ancestors think on the subject of LGBT rights but would be surprised if they've heard of Levicitus. Similarly, I don't give a damn what "biblical scholars" think. My (Roman) Catholicism isn't a belief that can be explained by religious scripts or textbooks or understood in the halls of academia. I am glad of that.


For me, my Roman Catholicm is a part of my identity and a part of my value-judgement system. It's integral to, and an evolvement of, something that my forefathers and foremothers not only believed in but fought for and represented. My Catholicism isn't about some verse in the bible that I have never read nor understood.


Rather, it's about my mother, then aged 15, who with her mother and priest heard a banshee on the night her father died at the age of 50. He was a non-smoker and took his first ever alcohol, a shot of brandy, that night. The banshee is said to only appear when those most devout of the Irish are dying.

My Catholicism is also about my father's people - years spent at graveyard Sundays praying respects for family members I didn't know and now doing exactly the same but, as I and we all age, for family members that I do know.

Roman Catholicism isn't easy. I have significant issues with the Roman Catholic church - admittedly these are very different from most here. My issues with the church aren't to do with LGBT aspects but rather nationality / politics .

The church in Ireland has generally been viewed as Irish nationalist and parts of the church have been very sympathetic towards Irish republicanism. Conversely, I'm the polar opposite politically - and have been all my life. I have an absolute hatred of all forms of Irish nationalism and republicanism, violent or otherwise.

This caused me to turn my back on the church for many years - I was already coming back to it but time spent in the Philippines in 2008 speeded that process up.

I go to mass an average of once a week - sometimes more, sometimes less. Often, here in London, I go to the Soho Masses, a mass aimed towards LGBT Catholic folk in London. However, I am as happy to go to more mainstream services and when I'm back to Belfast over Christmas, I'll be at mass four or five times alongside a very conservative congregation and will be accepted with nothing but lovingness and warmth.

I've never been made not to feel welcome or a part of the Catholic community - which is just as well as it's a community I won't be leaving until I'm in the ground.


Give me holy water, a crucifix and sacred heart on my desert island.

Ciaran 02-17-2013 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran (Post 509235)
I do not take eucharist although I attend mass on a reasonably frequent basis. Sometimes I choose to attend the Soho Masses - http://www.sohomasses.com/ . These are masses aimed at LGBT people, their families and friends that are held in London twice-monthy. Unsurprisingly, these masses are not without controversy within the church but attending these is positive, reaffirming and uplifting for me.


This has been a difficult week to be Catholic, especially here in London. This evening was our last ever Soho Mass, something that's generated significant press attention both in the UK and continental Europe:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21490633


Some of the press coverage has been inaccurate and, in any event, our LGBT Catholic community has found another Roman Catholic church in which to worship but there's been hurt and heartache in how this has come about.


With that said, this evening's final service was tremendously powerful and reaffirming for me and, I think, for many others too. We had seven priests (yes, SEVEN) to celebrate the mass tonight as a sign of support and to demonstrate that we are very much a part of the Catholic community.


The Church was packed. It was standing room only with LGBT Catholics, friends, families and allies. Ironically, despite these obstacles, my Roman Catholic faith is stronger today than it has ever been before.


This evening's service concluded with the following song. I'd never heard it before but it is truly beautiful:


Gráinne 02-19-2013 10:51 AM

Not a practicing Roman Catholic, but I suddenly had a memory this morning.

When I was in college the first go-around (so 1981-85), I didn't follow any particular faith, having left my parents' church several years before. I still felt some kind of need for a spiritual practice, so even though I wasn't a Roman Catholic, I went to Mass at the Church a block from my dorm. As I recall, I asked a Catholic friend "How do you go to Mass"?, so I didn't make a fool out of myself.

It may seem a shallow reason for attending, but St. George's was the most beautiful church I had ever seen. It was a historic building in the University neighborhood, right up next to gas stations, a disco, and fast food restaurants.

Someone upthread quoted the prayer right before Eucharist-the part about being unworthy, but say the word and my spirit will be healed. I remember being so moved by that, and I certainly needed healing and lots of it. For many reasons, I was pretty much like a broken down car and completely out of spiritual gas.

I always snapped to attention at the benediction-"The Lord bless you and keep you, the Lord make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord turn his face towards you and grant you peace" Well, I needed all those things, massively. Upon the benediction, I felt I could keep going for another week. It filled me.

So I did the whole thing-went to classes, had a kind of confirmation ceremony, and Eucharist, I believe. I eventually left Cincinnati but remained a practicing Roman Catholic back in *hometown also beginning with a C*.

There's no good reason why I stopped, except that a few years after I went home, I moved out again and across the country and began a pretty wild (read: irresponsible) lifestyle for a few years. I wonder if I'd stuck to it, and received that benediction every week, if I would have gotten so far off track.

I never formally left the Church, if there is such a thing. It's a very long story, but I bounced around through several Protestant denominations and Episcopal (very Roman Catholic-like in service while still Protestant), then even some time as an Evangelical before leaving Christianity altogether and currently struggling between Judaism and Quakerism.

But even if I'm not a Christian and have serious questions about theology, I still remember how centered I felt during those services. My life fell apart, but spiritually, I had a community and I loved the beauty.

Out of curiosity, I looked up St. George's. Sadly, attendance declined in the years after I was there, with the growth of the University and changing neighborhood. It closed in 1993, and combined with a church a few miles away. I was glad to hear that the beautiful building was saved from being wrecked, and I hope it continues thus.

Ciaran 03-05-2013 03:33 PM

I thought I'd update this thread again with some reflections from here in London.


Firstly, a wider issue impacting the Roman Catholic church here in the UK and that is the resignation last week of Cardinal Keith O'Brien. O'Brien was the most senior Catholic here in UK and was to be the only UK representative who was going to be able to vote in upcoming papal conclave.


His resignation was forced through by the Vatican following allegations from four priests that he had engaged with them in sexual activity - and some suggestions that he had used undue influence in this regard. After initially refuting the allegations, he has now admitted that his sexual conduct has at times "fallen beneath the standards expected of me".


As an outspoken opponent of LGBT marriage and having made numerous homophobic pronouncements through his tenure, the hypocracy was glaring. Yet there is also something incredibly sad about it all - a man potentially so untrue to himself that any legacy of his life was all about a lie.


On more local matters, our LGBT Catholic community here in London had its first service in our Farm Street church on Sunday. Until now, we've had our own standalone service, for LGBT folk and friends and families but that was recently brought to an end by the Archbishop of London.


Instead, he suggested that we should integrate with the wider Roman Catholic community here in London - of course, most of us already do at other times of worship anyway. There was a fear from many of us that this was a deliberate attempt to marginalise us and to make us invisible within the London Catholic community. Many of us have been cynical.


We are now worshiping at Farm Street in London's Mayfair. It's a truly beautiful church:

http://www.panoramicstudio.co.uk/church/


The church was packed on Sunday evening - standing room only in fact. At first, I felt a sense of isolation and loneliness - it all seemed somewhat foreign to me, many strange faces and the lack of common welcome I had been used to at our "Soho Masses".


It all seemed a bit too stilted also .... and initially, as I looked around, I saw only strangers. Then, one-by-one, I saw that there were many of us LGBT Catholics who'd made the journey from our old church to this one. We exist.


So far, the non-LGBT parishioners have been incredibly welcoming to us, as have the priests of the parish. Furthermore, after Sunday's service, the Archbishop of London held a reception for us and, whilst I didn't stay for this, he apparently engaged in an open, honest and constructive debate. It's the first time that openly LGBT Catholics here in the UK have had such direct engagement with such a senior representative of the Church. That's got to be encouraging.


So where to from here? I don't know but, for me, the words of Yves Congar, a Dominican theological, resonate ..... in particular, to paraphrase, that our lives and our faiths are characterised by journeys and that we should never think we've arrived as our lives are nomadic and we never really know our ultimate destination. I'm on that journey.

meridiantoo 03-05-2013 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran (Post 762012)
...the words of Yves Congar, a Dominican theological, resonate ..... in particular, to paraphrase, that our lives and our faiths are characterised by journeys and that we should never think we've arrived as our lives are nomadic and we never really know our ultimate destination. I'm on that journey.


I love this! Thank you for your thoughtful posts, insights, and faith.

Gráinne 03-12-2013 10:04 AM

Just catching a few minutes of the election of the Pope on TV. I thought it was unusual that the press would be invited in there; I don't think this is a part of the Vatican that regular people ever get to see. Still, I've always wanted to see what is open, such as the Sistine Chapel. Truly a beautiful place.

Even if whoever is Pope doesn't affect me in any way, it will be interesting to see if it's someone "traditional", or if they go with someone outside the box. There's no rule that the Pope can't be black, or American (controversies aside).

Ciaran 05-04-2013 12:25 PM

Thought I'd refresh this thread. I'm refreshing it not to talk of theology or to try to convince others that the Catholic church is slowly but surely changing for the better - although I do think it is. Rather, just to share an update on my own Roman Catholicism.


Most Saturdays, I watch football (aka soccer), drink a few, or more, beers and spend too much money shopping. Today, however, I went to a full day workshop for LGBT Catholics in London. Entitled, "Next Steps", it was just that i.e. each of us working out our next steps on our Catholic journey.


I'm not sure if my Catholic faith is still growing stronger. However, I do know that it's increasingly important to me. I appreciate that for many, maybe most, being LGBT and Catholic is a contradiction in terms. However, to me, it's the opposite. For me, as bizarre as it may sound, I find it easier to reconcile my genderqueerness through my Catholicism than through anything else.


I've been luckier than most. Unlike many others, my home parish (in Northern Ireland) was always been welcoming to me. It still is. It remains an important part of my life, especially when I come home. I return to the church as often as I can - in fact, I was able to convince Tmbyfem, a member here, to accompany me to a beautiful Christmas Eve service a few years ago when she was visiting from San Diego.


That church is where my mother first took me to mass over 37 years ago. More recently, a few weeks ago when my mum visited London, I had the opportunity to take her to my current parish here in London. It's at Farm Street, Mayfair - where our active LGBT "Soho Masses" community now celebrates it mass and where today's workshop was held. Bringing my mum to this church was incredibly affirming for me on many levels. She, a conversative Catholic, has become an active proponent of LGBT rights and visibility within the church. I should never have expected any less given the unconditional love she has always shown to me - but, all the same, I'm still really pleased about it all.


So today's workshop? Well, it was important to me. I don't always like living in London and it will never be my home. However, today reminded me that I'm fortunate to live somewhere that's cosmopolitan enough to have a real and active LGBT Catholic community. The opportunity to interact on a real and meaningful level with other LGBT Catholics is invaluable to those who do have a Catholic faith and want to reconcile it to their non-heteronormative gender identity / sexuality.


In particular, here in London which has been the focus of much of the global media attention on LGBT rights within the Catholic chuch over recent months given the church authority's decision to stop our LGBT-focused masses. Our previous LGBT-focused mass was ended by the church authorities as, so they said, they wanted LGBT Catholics to form part of a wider, active, functioning parish. There were, and remain, many doubters. They might have a point - the number of visible LGBT Catholics at our regular masses is said to have dropped.


Notwithstanding that, we remain a real community and we are now becoming a real part of a wider parish community. The existing "straight" parishioners have accepted us with open arms - unambiguously so. The parish has had one letter of complaint about our involvement and that letter came from a non-parishioner. Just as we are gaining from the parish, the existing parishioners are (hopefully) benefiting from us too. We're taking part in wider parish communities and existing parishioners are coming to some of our social functions. There's learning on both sides - and, yes, we are becoming a real and meaningful part of parish life.


As a part of today's workshop, we were each asked to decide upon a number of personal commitments to make or undertake over the next twelve months. One of mine, rather spontaneous, is to complete a Lough Derg pilgrimage. It's a rather harsh pilgrimage on a remote island off the western Irish coast. I've wanted to do this for some time but have lacked the courage, probably due to an uneasiness as to how my genderqueerness will be accepted.


Sometimes, however, you just need to take that next step .....................



SoSousMe 05-05-2013 06:10 PM

As a practicing Catholic, welcome in My local church with open arms, along with the rest of our LGBTQ family. I found this to be very disheartening

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...13/05/05/66442

Wolfsong 05-06-2013 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran (Post 793438)
Thought I'd refresh this thread. I'm refreshing it not to talk of theology or to try to convince others that the Catholic church is slowly but surely changing for the better - although I do think it is. Rather, just to share an update on my own Roman Catholicism.


Most Saturdays, I watch football (aka soccer), drink a few, or more, beers and spend too much money shopping. Today, however, I went to a full day workshop for LGBT Catholics in London. Entitled, "Next Steps", it was just that i.e. each of us working out our next steps on our Catholic journey.


I'm not sure if my Catholic faith is still growing stronger. However, I do know that it's increasingly important to me. I appreciate that for many, maybe most, being LGBT and Catholic is a contradiction in terms. However, to me, it's the opposite. For me, as bizarre as it may sound, I find it easier to reconcile my genderqueerness through my Catholicism than through anything else.


I've been luckier than most. Unlike many others, my home parish (in Northern Ireland) was always been welcoming to me. It still is. It remains an important part of my life, especially when I come home. I return to the church as often as I can - in fact, I was able to convince Tmbyfem, a member here, to accompany me to a beautiful Christmas Eve service a few years ago when she was visiting from San Diego.


That church is where my mother first took me to mass over 37 years ago. More recently, a few weeks ago when my mum visited London, I had the opportunity to take her to my current parish here in London. It's at Farm Street, Mayfair - where our active LGBT "Soho Masses" community now celebrates it mass and where today's workshop was held. Bringing my mum to this church was incredibly affirming for me on many levels. She, a conversative Catholic, has become an active proponent of LGBT rights and visibility within the church. I should never have expected any less given the unconditional love she has always shown to me - but, all the same, I'm still really pleased about it all.


So today's workshop? Well, it was important to me. I don't always like living in London and it will never be my home. However, today reminded me that I'm fortunate to live somewhere that's cosmopolitan enough to have a real and active LGBT Catholic community. The opportunity to interact on a real and meaningful level with other LGBT Catholics is invaluable to those who do have a Catholic faith and want to reconcile it to their non-heteronormative gender identity / sexuality.


In particular, here in London which has been the focus of much of the global media attention on LGBT rights within the Catholic chuch over recent months given the church authority's decision to stop our LGBT-focused masses. Our previous LGBT-focused mass was ended by the church authorities as, so they said, they wanted LGBT Catholics to form part of a wider, active, functioning parish. There were, and remain, many doubters. They might have a point - the number of visible LGBT Catholics at our regular masses is said to have dropped.


Notwithstanding that, we remain a real community and we are now becoming a real part of a wider parish community. The existing "straight" parishioners have accepted us with open arms - unambiguously so. The parish has had one letter of complaint about our involvement and that letter came from a non-parishioner. Just as we are gaining from the parish, the existing parishioners are (hopefully) benefiting from us too. We're taking part in wider parish communities and existing parishioners are coming to some of our social functions. There's learning on both sides - and, yes, we are becoming a real and meaningful part of parish life.


As a part of today's workshop, we were each asked to decide upon a number of personal commitments to make or undertake over the next twelve months. One of mine, rather spontaneous, is to complete a Lough Derg pilgrimage. It's a rather harsh pilgrimage on a remote island off the western Irish coast. I've wanted to do this for some time but have lacked the courage, probably due to an uneasiness as to how my genderqueerness will be accepted.


Sometimes, however, you just need to take that next step .....................



Ciaran,

I commend you on your faith journey and will remember you in my daily prayers. I've heard of Lough Derg and that it is considered possibly the harshest of pilgrimages. What I would tell you is not to be afraid. If you are called to it then there is purpose for it. Let your faith strengthen you and the full armor of God cover you.

As a Catholic I struggle with some of the tenants......I do not believe that communion becomes the actual body of Christ or wine His blood, I do not believe that unborn babies that have not been baptized go to Limbo.....I do not believe in baptism that is not full immersion and completed before the person baptized asks for it (that is probably the Baptist in me.....I claim dual citizenship)......I do not believe in sex for procreation only or that using birth protection is a sin.......I do not believe in confession or the need for a priest or saint to be an intermediary between myself and God.......I do not believe in praying to the Saints.....I do not believe in the section of the Apostle's Creed that states, "We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church." I know you are probably thinking well what the hell is Catholic about this guy then? I don't know the answer to that. All I can tell you is that when I first really saw my faith, that first time I really felt it, everything I knew started to unravel. Maybe I don't have the right to be there anymore.

Mopsie 05-06-2013 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoSousMe (Post 794087)
As a practicing Catholic, welcome in My local church with open arms, along with the rest of our LGBTQ family. I found this to be very disheartening

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...13/05/05/66442

This article made me feel so angry/frustrated - we are outsiders in a Church that supposedly welcomes us all...

Wolfsong 07-29-2013 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mopsie (Post 794628)
This article made me feel so angry/frustrated - we are outsiders in a Church that supposedly welcomes us all...


Hope is eternal

Galahad 03-22-2015 08:04 PM

I miss my parish community during Lent, this year more than others. I've been looking for a lgbt rosary group. I like the offices online, but I almost always pray the rosary. Even at my most atheistic moments I just can't give it up. The first decade I pray for my family and us, LGBTQ, our safety, comfort, respect, equality, spirituality, a loving accepting church.
If you hear of a group doing this please post it here. Or, join in at 9pm.

nhplowboi 03-22-2015 10:09 PM

I must say Pope Francis makes me reconsider. What a wonderful man and truly what Jesus was all about.


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