Is Marriage for you?
 

As some of you know I post a whole lot of updates regarding equal marriage in our country and elsewhere in the world. So if tomorrow you were told that you could get married, would you want to? Why or why not?

All I ask is that you (collective you) be respectful to each other and our points of view.

I'll be back later...

hi MsTinker:
Thanks for this thread...great idea!


If I was told tomorrow I could get married, would I want to? Why or why not?
Having that same privilege/right as all others in society would be awesome in and of itself...for a number of reasons. All I have ever wanted was for everyone to be treated equally!
I would love to be married with equal rights/privileges....and to be recognized as such! Being able to live life without discretion, phobias, anger, and hate would be ideal!
However, on the opposite side of the coin, "marriage" doesn't "guarantee" us anything. By that I mean, when I am coupled, I want our hearts to bind one another with the strings of love, committment, fidelity, honesty, and such..NOT a "piece of paper". The freedom to be individuals yet remaining committed, one to the other.....by love..by choice...am I making sense...lol..
Looking forward to all the posts. Have an awesome day! Clay
PS I would love to be able to enjoy all the perks and privileges that come with marriage (as stated by Tawse) in so far as marriage in that respect.
I also agree with Novela's post as well. My deceased partner & I had 15 wonderful years, and would have been married had our state recognized the union! But we were so much more committed in our hearts and bound for life...except death took her away from me. Ahh but I digress.

We got married in Canada in 2007 and I can't wait for it to become legal across the states.

Why?

Strictly Financial and Legal reasons. Hospital visitations, Next of Kin rights, Tax deductions, Insurance benefits, Pension benefits, SSI benefits, etc... My wife and I deserve them just as much as Joe Blow Straight Guy in the office next door.

My partner and I are getting married in March...eep, only 5 weeks left! We had originally planned to get legally married in NYC but we weren't there long enough...there needs to be 24 hours in between your license application and the ceremony. Now that Prop 8 has been overturned in CA we will most likely take a road trip to Long Beach and go the the justice of the peace there. It is very important to her to be legally married in the eyes of the law somewhere, me...not so much since I feel the commitment is in one's mind and heart. We are having a commitment ceremony here in Tucson at our home and her father will be the one marrying us, which makes my heart melt to even think about.

Clay is exactly right. Marriage is never a guarantee of life long happiness and companionship. Look at the lesbian couple who was the first same sex couple in CA to be legally wed. They just filed for divorce after being together for 15 years! People grow and change and move in different directions. That's just life. But when you meet your soul mate and you know it is meant to be, the path you travel together just makes sense and you feel blessed to be on it with your chosen partner. At least that's how I feel. :)

for some people.. they can stay with someone forever as long as they don't feel legally tied to that person. As soon as you have the legal bonds - they feel suffocated.


It's cool watching the way different people react to different things.

I don't see myself getting married again, as I love having a (close to) empty nest and don't really want to merge my living quarters with a partner. I recognize that that's an unusual arrangement in this community, as most partners do seem to move towards living together/marriage. I am more tempermentally built to live alone, though. Still, I can't say "never"!

Having said all that, of course it should be an option for any couple, providing both are consenting adults of age. I really see all the controversy as much like the fighting over interracial marriage before 1967. I'd like to see America go to an England or Canada-like system. As I understand it, ALL marriages have to be carried out in a civil court (not just as an option, as it is here). Then, the religious church service is optional, but you are married by the civil authorities. That way, churches that don't want gay marriage don't have to do it. It's really a human rights issue more than a moral one.

Exactly, Tawse. I had this conversation with my sister when we were in NYC a few weeks back. She has been with her partner for 26 years and they are getting legally married tomorrow at their town hall. She was explaining that marriage was just never really an option for her. It felt too conventional, traditional, confining, doomed, lol. Since she has had cancer her outlook has done a 360. She wrote me this morning and said she thinks tomorrow is going to take she and Michael to a whole different level emotionally and spiritually and she is super excited about that.

I will say that the entire 15+ years I was married it never felt quite "right". And while I couldn't put my finger on what was identifiably wrong, it actually made me heart sick to think that the reality I was living then was all it would ever be in terms of intimacy and partnership. But, I felt like I had made a deal with the devil and I was in it forever. Thank goodness I finally realized I had options and that the world wouldn't end if I spoke up and made my unhappiness known.

I was in a hetero marriage for 2 years. I know being married to a woman who I felt that complete connection with would be different, but it gonna take me a while to get to that point, if ever. My whole idea of marriage is kinda spoiled with my experience, the media, the controversy, ect. I would want to have a ceremony of some sort, somethig special that was meaningful to us if I ever find a partner who would want to go there with me (lol). Now, when it gets to the point of kids, mortgages, insurance, etc I can totally see why a marriage that would be legally binding would be important.

To each their own, and congrats to the folks who are and will be getting legally married. It's amazing to see how far we have come.

Love!
Starry

I beleave marriage is great,but its not a garentee of happyness nor being a life time commitment to some people.That being said I also think that to many folks rush into marriage with out takeing the time to really get to know the person they are commiting a lifetime to,so time should be taken t really get to know who you are contemplateing marriage with.Lets face it when the blush falls from the bloom there is the real life of the ebb and flow of of a long term relationship should be built over time by also being each thers best friends before anything else so a solid foundation is there,I am always wary of a fast pace relationship that leads to the alter,its not to say it cant be good and do work out,but imho its not a everyday thing.MY grand parrents courted for several years and thay had a long term loveing marriage built on love,trust,compatablity and realiseing how to just live life with humor.I would like that kind of relationship but it has not happened...yet.

I find that a lot of people say, "I don't care if they pass same-sex marriage or not. I don't need a piece of paper."

The thing is, whether you want to be married or not, it's a good thing for those who value marriage to be able to have what they want and need for their relationship. I like to encourage people to think of those they love and see equal rights as a necessity, not a privilege.

I am also the marrying kind.

Having been in a 36 year marriage and then a divorce, I can say that marriage does have its protections. And that's why I see same-sex marriage as a must for the whole country. It protects children, deals with medical and end-of-life issues, and property ownership and division. Not all of that is protected by the federal government, though some is protected by state civil union laws and some state same sex marriage laws.

I will also say that any marriage should not be a quick decision because it's hard to get out of legally and can get messy.

Marriage, like any long-term commitment, should be based on knowing someone really well and not just what they like to do in bed. It's about all of the little things that can bless or curse your life together if you decided to share a home. It's everything. So a strong friendship (that may be hot) is essential.

Would I marry again? I don't think so. Would I commit to a long-term relationship? Someday perhaps with the right person. But my standards are high and I really don't know if that's in my future.

If I was with someone and I knew it was going to be forever then yes. When in a committed relationship you work hard to build a life together. You want to know that you're both safe to make investments, purchase a home, etc. When I was in a relationship we did have provisions and paperwork to protect us. Getting married makes it easier and perhaps more affordable.

I think we deserve the same rights, however if I got married it would be based on my feelings and love for my life partner.

I am in my 2nd Marriage; the first one was to my daughter's father, and (the last one I will ever be in) now with my Kasey. When I say the last one I mean it 100%. Should Kasey leave me, or should she pass before me, I will not marry again.

I hear people (general people) say that it is just a piece of paper...in my opinion if they get married believing that statement they have no business being married. For "me" marriage is HUGE! You tell another person that for better or for worse, bedhead, bad breath, blah, blah, blah, that you are going to work it out day after day, week after week, year after year, because you have chosen to be here in this reality with them. There are days when I wish my Kasey would go to ....well I'm sure you get it. I'm sure there are days that if I wandered into traffic there would be no tears for her either. The thing is, I have sworn before my diety, my family and friends, and before my Kasey, that when the going gets rough it will still be the two of us standing there side by side against the world. That MEANS something.

Marriage also affords the greatest protections for a family...no notarized documents, power of attorney's, or wills are going to stop someone truely determined from taking everything your partner has left you when you go. Marriage changes that...no one has EVER asked me to see my marriage certificate when I have to do something legal for Kasey, but they did when it was a Domestic Partnership.

I don't want to just ramble here...I am truely interested in what everyone has to say, and I enjoy reading your posts and hearing where you are coming from.

She wrote me this morning and said she thinks tomorrow is going to take she and Michael to a whole different level emotionally and spiritually and she is super excited about that. -- Novelafemme


Surely this is what marriage is all about! love this.

Tink, thank you for keeping us posted on much of the same sex marriage news. I read it, always.

I know it has been argued that the LGBTQ Community has spent far too many resources on this particular human rights issue. I disagree with that it is too much. Yes, much of the collective resources are focused on same sex marriage and I believe this is also opening doors in general for the entire gambit of human rights for LGBTQ.

My own personal situation is that I now can get legally married in the USA because I have transitioned and legally I am now male. I consider this to be a clear cut example of hypocrisy. I have known all of my life I am a queer which is primarily expressed as masculine and born into a female body. Why does undergoing surgery, taking hormones, acquiring the "proper and needed documents" to transition change how the law now sees me? I am still the same on the inside. I still put my pants on one leg at a time. My resume is the same, my passions and hopes, unchanged.

Now I can get married legally, and I know on some level I hedge because it just does not seem right, that I can get married while others in my community cannot. This really annoys me. I am sure at some point I will get married for the first time in my life, and I hope it will be the last.

P.S. I know, I am such a romantic.

Marriage is for me. When I find that femme who understands what love and trust and loyalty and devotion mean , that 1 special girl who lives her life with integrity morals and standards, I will put a ring on her finger , and share a beautiful life , full of love and adventures.

This! Me in Blue

You can say that it's the same - having the piece of paper and not having the piece of paper - but you won't know how different it is until you actually get to have the piece of paper. I used to say it was the same. It's not. And I have the piece of paper to prove it.

there wasn't an option that fully represented my situation but i chose "alternate joining" (i wasn't certain if you meant an alternate legal joining, like a domestic partnership or common law situation, or a non-legally-binding commitment).

i have two partners. i am married-but-not-legally to both, which means for us that we've taken vows and committed to each other. i've exchanged rings with my butch (this week!) and been collared by my other partner (and given him a ring, several years ago), who i'm in a d/s relationship with. i have a queer spousal relationship with both partners in addition to our butch/femme and dominant/submissive dynamics. i haven't had an elaborate ceremony with either, though i would like to. rick and i are planning an actual collaring ceremony at some point in the future. chris and i have gone back and forth on whether we'd like to have some sort of wedding ceremony once we are all living together. in both cases, at this point, the ceremonies themselves are just formalities for us.

as far as legal realities, chris and i cannot get legally married because we don't live in a state with same-sex marriage and he isn't far enough into his transition to change his gender on his id (and greyson's post listed well all the reasons why even if he could the whole situation is just fucked up and hypocritical). rick and i could get legally married. i won't marry one of my partners legally and not the other because i am committed to both and i'm frankly just really fed up and angry with the fact that marriage for queer/trans and poly couples and families is really not an option. the whole anti-poly and anti-queer/trans marriage culture is really upsetting to me.

on a practical level, there would be some benefits to legal marriage - sharing health insurance (which i don't have but could get if i were married to one or both of them), tax benefits, veterans and social security benefits (both my partners are veterans and one is close to retirement) and potentially disability benefits if i ever end up getting them, work benefits, and medical benefits if one of us is sick or dying. there would also be some drawbacks - chris and i have a lot of student loan debt, rick has credit card debt, we all maintain mostly separate finances and like it that way.

IF everything else was equal - the finances weren't a huge barrier, polyamorous and queer marriages were legal everywhere, etc. - i'd marry them both legally tomorrow if i could. but even if queer marriage becomes legal in kansas in my lifetime, i seriously doubt polygamy will. rick, who has been married before, is not really interested in getting legally married again; chris is definitely interested in getting legally married but happy to keep things the way they are now because of the lack of equality for queer and polyamorous relationships.

that said - i'm happy with the way things are now. where i am from most people don't get married because there is a horribly high rate of domestic violence (along with virtually everyone living under the poverty line and a lot of substance abuse) so i didn't grow up in a culture where legal marriage was normal. it's much easier to leave an abusive relationship and get your kids out of it if you're not legally married. i never saw a happily married couple til i met my friends anna and dawn, who are lesbian and have been married 13 years (non-legally because they live in a state where it's illegal). when i was little my mom made me promise i would never get married, or at least wait til i was 40 and had a career and my own life and then i could if i really really really really felt i had to. so i've always felt pressured NOT to marry which is the opposite of a lot of my friends (especially other muslims i know and folks around my age - mid-twenties).

another issue for us is religious - i'm a muslim who goes to a ucc church and i'm married to a secular jew and a buddhist. they would be willing to have religious marriage ceremonies with me, and i'm good friends with an imam who does same-sex nikahs (muslim marriage ceremonies) in the u.s. and canada (he is one of only a handful of imams in the world who will do this - i witnessed him perform a nikah for a lesbian couple and it was a very powerful experience). but he does not approve of polyandry. likewise, the church i attend is pretty accepting and my pastor knows me pretty well but i seriously doubt he'd be willing to perform a ceremony for me, knowing that i am poly - the ucc is queer-friendly and doesn't exclude poly folks in the congregation but they are very monogamy-centered officially (though a friend of mine who is a poly ucc minister and i are trying to get together to find out more about the church hierarchy where ceremonies are concerned). so if we were to do a ceremony i would probably have a pagan or buddhist friend perform a ceremony i design myself, and it would be in the community but outside of my places of worship.

If I met the right girl. Then maybe.

Sorry. Didn't realize I needed to add the part about my me place. *For me* it was very different. Much more different than I ever thought it would be and I had no idea how different it would be until I had the piece of paper in my hand.

*For me* it's not about health insurance or inheritance or any of those things you mentioned. Yes, all of those can be handled in some other way. But there is no other way to be legally married other than to be legally married. I didn't think it would matter to me. I didn't think I would feel different. But it did. *To me*.

You are right when you say it is the commitment that matters..."most" people that are "married" whether legally by the State, or in another way, put that commitment behind their "vows". Maybe I would have felt the same with my Kasey if we had gone a different route...something to ponder!

I hear you. We all have our own journeys for sure. I am glad that paper made a difference for you and yours. We all deserve that opportunity if we so desire for sure.

Everyone is different. I just know for my two marriages, one legal and one was not, there was no difference in how i "felt" meaning felt "married". Nothing is gonna work, legal or otherwise, if the relationship goes south. That little piece of 10cent paper isn't gonna make it all better...IMO. Still hoping we have the right to have it though someday, when and if we (collective we) ever want it.

Great thread btw.

My experiences have been dismal.

These days, I take each day as it comes. I wake up and say "this is where I want to be" and that's good enough for now.

Could I, would I, want more from a relationship in the future? Could I, would I, ever again consider promising a lifetime commitment? ...

Perhaps.

After a very long engagement. And a rock solid prenup.

Not very romantic, I know. :blink:

My husband and I got engaged after only 3 months together, so clearly marriage is for me :D

I can only hope that if we ever separate, that I'll remember how happy I was the day we said our vows.

I am home on the iPad which won't let me quote so I'll try to make sense when I mention someone else's post.

I am not a fan of "Marriage" in particular, although for "me" I have never felt that sense of deep commitment, even in the Domestic Partnership that my Kasey and I had, without legal binding marriage. Novelafemme said that her partner needed to have the legal ceremony...I also needed that to make my union feel as valid as any other.

I am a firm believer that marriage should be civil joinings and Church marriage (two separate entities) as in some other countries. Those that want a legal equal partnership could just be joined for that purpose, and those that wanted to take it a step further could do so...does that make sense?

[QUOTE=Sassy;523742]



After a very long engagement. And a rock solid prenup.

^^^^
THIS!

Hey, no worries. I feel the exact same way and I haven't even had any marriages and/or combining of finances experiences, good or bad. :D

i am not responding to the do i believe in love or longterm partnerships for me or others part of this. In fact, i do.

Legal marriage has never appealed to me. If i were straight, i would not marry. i'd have to desperately need the insurance or something like that.

Sometimes a prenup won't work. Example: Say your partner signs a prenup and legally marries you, and a few years later you open the business of your dreams and over the next several years you work your ASS off to make lots of $$$$...You put your heart and soul into the business. You're making money, you're giving them the best things in life---cars, clothes,,etc., but then they complain your spending too much time working, so they divorce you for aleiniation of affection or something. Folks, even if the business is not in their name, they can still get 50% of it's earnings because a defense attorney may be able to convince a judge they helped you succeed and they can still continue to earn money from their own career! So, if you're a person that works hard and has money, if you get married, you're gonna lose out to some degree if your partner asks for a divorce. You may not lose 50%, but you'll certainly not MAKE any money from a divorce. Now, just because you signed a pre nup, your still trusting your partner not to put up a fight and just walk away. At the very least, they can still take you to court and that costs time and money.