Abuse in butch-femme relationships
 

This is going to be a tough one for me. I thought my last (and first; I'm only 22 and didn't figure any of this out until 21, so I haven't had a lot of time!) girlfriend was the love of my life. But she got physical with me on a few occasions. I never thought I'd be the one this would happen to; I guess it made it harder that she was a woman, and despite the fact that I am 4'11" and 110 pounds and she's 6' and big, in my mind I guess it was easier to reconcile that than, say, some jerk boyfriend smacking me around.

Here's the problem: I've never been as close to anyone as I was/am to her. Nobody's ever treated me that well in a relationship day to day; I've never been that intimate with anyone before, sexually, emotionally or spiritually. And I feel a lot of guilt because I can be a lot to deal with. I get depressed, I ask a million insecure questions, etc., etc. And I certainly didn't make it easy for her to be with me...I was afraid of coming out, and of commitment (due to the need for me to come out in my former job and family, both in super-conservative environments. Now those issues are resolved, but they were not at the beginning of our relationship). But she had an anger problem before me, and I know she had some "issues" along these lines with previous girlfriends.

I knew she had a bad temper, but it escalated to extremes on rare occasions. One night we were at the local lesbian bar and there were some guys there. She accused me of looking at them and flirting with them as we were driving home. I wasn't; I didn't even notice them beyond the fact that they were dudes in an otherwise all-girl bar. She pulled over and we started fighting and screaming; I realized she was at least somewhat drunk. Things got worse and she eventually choked me, then pulled out her army knife, opened it up and frightened me with it, told me she was going to kill me, and then herself, then threw down the knife and started crying. I ran out of the car and she ran after me, chasing me. I turned around and hit her, and she threw me on the ground and took my phone so I couldn't call the police. Then she started crying and apologizing. I chalked it up to some freak intoxicated incident and insecurities, but I stayed scared when her temper would flare up, especially since she was so much bigger than me.

A few months later, she came to my apartment, somewhat intoxicated, though not badly. I could tell she was in her "angry place." I said I really didn't want her to be in my apartment drunk, because I was afraid, and she started screaming at me that I was a worthless whore, useless, disgusting, etc. I was so shaken that I slapped her, hard. I still feel terrible about it. But what followed was horrible. She held me down on the ground and the bed while I screamed for her to please let me up because I couldn't breathe. This continued for about 15 minutes. I tried to stay with her for a few months after that, but the anger incidents (not physical ones) continued and I eventually broke up with her over it, though I didn't want to. I felt I had no choice at that point, and I was exhausted.

She is now going to intensive therapy and cutting back on her drinking. What I don't understand is how I can still have such strong feelings for her. It makes me feel pathetic, but these were isolated incidents. I don't know how I'll meet another butch who meets all my emotional and physical and spiritual needs like she did, and like I did for her; who I can love as completely and connect to as deeply; who I can tell anything to without judgment; who will be interested in me and I in them, and we will both have eyes only for each other; who I can give my whole heart to and love unconditionally, and who will do the same for me. So, am I crazy? What can I do in this situation? Should I cut off contact with her? If we are meant to be, is it worth it at all to try to fix anything or continue in the future?

Please be gentle. This has been really tough.

I should add that she very much wants to get back together with me. She has apologized profusely, and tells me every day that I'm the only person she ever wants to be with, and believes I am the one. This is making it even harder to stay strong and say no.

You don't hit girls, simplistic, but really not. Good luck to you.

I agree with Mtn you don't hit women period . If you are mad enough to hit her then you best be walking away until you cool down. I have however had some women to try and come after me and keep the arguement going and some that have actually hit me. My opinion run like hell and never look back.

Take hope
 

I agree you both need counseling. Even if you were not dealing with your own hand hitting....Im gonna say what I think should happen and then take what you want and throw out the rest:
She in couseling
you in counseling
You two in couples counseling ONLY. No dating or sex... just healing.
Then after three months check it out but continue counseling for a year.

OR....run...she had a knife....thats very serious...she really isnt that perfect person who is everything to you....she threatened you . Believe me there are mass great handsome butches out there who know how to take a femme out and have fun

No contact...

Sometime the love can be there but it's toxic...

How can you ever trust that she will not hit you again?

That trust is gone...

I know this is going to sound harsh, but you are only 22.. At 22 you are just starting to get a clue about life and about who you are/will be...

You will meet someone you makes you feel this way again... Honest, you really will...


I recommend you NOT look for another butch until you get some therapy to help heal from the last....

(Wishes she had taken this advice when it was given to her.....)

Whether it be a male or female abuser- you are putting your life at risk if you go back to her.

My abuser was my ex-husband. I was young, just like you are. Abusers always have an excuse: you made them upset/angry; they had a bad day/night; too much alcohol/drugs, etc., etc.

They are always remorseful, it will never happen again; until it does.

My ex-husband started with pushing, shoving, escalating to slaps-until the time I was 8-months pregnant with my second baby at age 20, when he sat on my stomach and punched me in the face several times.

Get therapy for yourself or anything that you need to help you to believe that you do not deserve abuse. It is great that she is in intensive therapy but it could take years for her to get a handle on her anger and acting out. Cutting down on her drinking may not be enough for her either. She may need to get clean and sober.

That you also slapped her, also reflects that the two of you are a volatile couple. It does not bode well for your future as a couple or that it is healthy for either of you to be together.

There are so many loving butches out there that would never dream of hurting you. Give yourself a chance to find this out for yourself. You can break the cycle.

Best of luck.

Also, to clarify, I know that what happened the second time on my part (though I was scared as she got into this "mode" where anything could happen) was very wrong, but the first time, I only hit her to get her away from me, as she was chasing me down the street when I tried to get away.

get out now, even with therapy she can and probably will relapse..it's hard to let go of someone who meets your needs on other levels but realize she isn't the only one out there who can..you need therapy too because being battered leaves you vunerable to choose someone who is a lot like your ex. It's very typical of women who have suffered from abuse to have a very hard time letting go...I work with battered women( for a living) and I see the same women who without therapy will out of 50 normal people will be attracted to the one person who will abuse them..It's typical behavior for most abusers to be so very sorry...........until it happens again. Hoping it will stop is like hoping the moon won't rise. Don't waste years thinking she will change she won't, she will use up your youth, destroy your self esteem, and if she finally leaves you will take everything she can from you and feel totally justified because this is all your fault (of course) if there is a hell, this is at least one of them. Love yourself enough to get out and resolve to stay away from her. It will take some time to get over her, be patient, seek therapy and be well.

In my experience... it was at this point, you describe, I moved to no contact. When I got to the point I felt I was backed into a corner and couldn't FIGHT my way out (and by fight I mean stand my ground, see myself, protect myself, think for myself, simply have space to breath and think) was when I set the boundary firmer. For me it was if they were going to push and I couldn't be clear then I needed to say no contact until I knew I was with out a doubt secure in myself and had my support lined up.

As others have referenced, counseling. AND layers of support and a plan. You are worth that (and more).

Keep talking... even if when you can't ask for help or know what you need you can speak.

First let me say...there are a whole bunch of butches (sounds like a box of cereal) who are incredible and healthy and who are ready to engage in incredibly nice, healthy relationships.

Second...there's only one relationship either one of you should consider at this time and that's the one with your own selves. There is only ONE person in this world who meets ALL of your needs and that is YOU. There is only one person who you should love first and foremost and that is YOU. The moment you think otherwise you have forfeited the very essence of your being and fallen out of love with YOU. Learn to love yourself first and completely; good, bad and ugly. This doesn't necessarily mean that you won't snag a few lumps of coal along the way but you will see the red flags MUCH sooner and understand that you don't need to sacrifice ANYTHING to have happiness with another being and you will accept nothing LESS than what you deserve.

I'm not ashamed to say I have had a whole LOT of help along the way. I didn't have the luxury of a present parents (they were just cruel to each other) so I desperately needed the help of others. I struggled horribly in my 20s so I feel your pain. My first girlfriend was (back then) the love of my life. I was devastated after we broke up so much that I though I couldn't live without her. It took me years and a lot of therapy to understand what was going on. It was the first time in my life ANYONE had paid so much attention to me. The first time someone loved me for who I was/am. The first person to show that they cared. I latched on and didn't feel like I could let go.

I'm 47 and still learning but once those true colors show I know to run for the hills. Nothing, no one is worth my own personal happiness.

Good luck and don't worry about the help she's getting just get yourself help. She may or may not change. It takes two to tango and the only person you CAN change is yourself.

Scoobs

Would you want your daughter or sister to be treated like that?

I'm here to tell you that if you go back, there's only one end. Find therapy, and get out. Love isn't supposed to hurt.

Found this on yahoo.


By Chelsea Kaplan
Share: Email Facebook Twitter MySpace StumbleUpon reddit Digg There’s no such thing as a relationship without challenges. However, some stumbling blocks are merely garden-variety annoyances, while others are bona fide deal-breakers. If you’re on the fence about which category your gripes belong in and whether or not they’re worth enduring, consider the advice of Lundy Bancroft and Jac Patrissi, authors of Should I Stay or Should I Go? A Guide to Knowing if Your Relationship Can — and Should — Be Saved. Below, they offer five ways to know whether your romance is doomed or likely to go the distance.

1. Consider how you and your partner resolve conflicts
In all relationships, partners experience periods when they need to express their disappointment and/or disagreement. “These periods are characterized by a sense of vulnerability, and they are difficult,” says Patrissi. “Yet, though relationships may get very difficult, you will know that they are working and healthy because each time you navigate these difficulties — and you will, countless times — you are growing closer and developing ways of being together that work for both of you.” Browse Local Singles at Match.com on Yahoo!
In an unhealthy relationship (i.e., one that really isn’t working), when you hit those periods of conflict, you’ll notice either right away or soon enough that you are not a team struggling for mutual well-being, Patrissi says. Unsure about whether you and your partner are have an unhealthy conflict resolution approach? When you argue, does it become about who can win and/or who can hurt the other more effectively, or does one (or both) of you become explosive or cruel? Is it characterized by your partner thinking almost exclusively about what is good for him or her, not about what’s good for you or the relationship? If any of these statements ring true for you, Patrissi says it’s probably a wise decision to get out.

2. Recognize the difference between irritating habits and deal-breakers
Patrissi says that some of the most troubling and potentially deal-breaking problems one can face with a partner are immaturity, addiction, unresolved or untreated mental health issues (including the after-effects of trauma, depression and personality disorders) and abusiveness: “Each one of these is a big ticket item, meaning it will likely cost you a great deal of emotional energy and time to be in a relationship with your partner and one of these issues. I know you want just your partner, but sometimes the partner doesn’t come without the issue. And that’s the heartbreaker.”

But is it a deal-breaker? That depends on a number of things, including where you are in your own life, where you are in your relationship, and what is safe and possible for you, explains Patrissi: “For example, you may have always known since childhood that if a partner was abusive to you — especially if he laid a hand on you in anger — that this was your deal-breaker. Yet if it happens, you will find yourself faced with many more ethical and practical questions that play into your decision-making than you had anticipated. Also, given your life history, you may decide that, no matter how much you love your partner, you don’t want to put so much energy into dealing with anything so consuming.”

3. Focus on yourself for a bit
Often, the easiest way to find clarity about your relationship involves shifting your focus away from it and to the center and joy of your own life instead. “In rediscovering what brings you joy, reinvesting in a daily routine that will support you, rediscovering some of the values you hold and creating a self-nurturing plan that includes skills for regulating your emotions when you feel out of sorts and creating a parenting-from-your-center plan if you have kids, you will create your own ‘no matter what happens’ life goals for yourself,” Patrissi explains.

Once you identify a couple of these life goals, you’ll enter into a process of addressing all the barriers to your own growth — some of which may involve your existing relationship. For example: You may realize that you are exhausted from coping with your partner’s issue; you may have poor financial health, which is a common consequence of destructive relationships; or, you may not be physically safe enough in the relationship to initiate moves toward investing in a routine that supports you — all of which should provide clear reasons why leaving your current relationship would be preferable to sticking around.

4. Think about the consequences of ending the relationship
When debating whether to leave or stay, Lundy advises first considering whether you’ve ever felt frightened of your partner. Has this person ever physically attacked you, or made you feel that he or she was on the verge of it? Has your partner ever forced you sexually? Has your partner said anything like, “You’d better not ever try to leave me” or anything similar that suggested he or she wanted you to be afraid of ending things? If your intuition tells you that your partner may have a volatile reaction, that’s a pretty good sign that walking away from your relationship is a good idea.

That said, it’s incredibly important to plan your exit carefully before doing so to ensure your safety, says Lundy: “Before telling your partner that you’re ending the relationship, figure out how you are going to get your belongings safely out of your place,” she advises. “Consider whether seeking a protective order might increase your safety, and deliver the news in a public place.” If you’re concerned that your partner may engage in self-harm, let key people in his or her life know that your relationship is ending — and that you are concerned about your partner’s welfare. “Once you’ve done that, you have to let go; your partner is responsible for his or her own choices, and you are not the cause of his or her deep misery,” Lundy says.

5. Imagine a life without your partner
Anyone can lose track of his or her identity in a relationship. “You may have put aside your own goals and dreams, lost track of your own favorite activities and closest friends, sacrificed your taste in music or movies, or altered your political beliefs,” says Lundy. “Though all this accommodating can help hold a relationship together, the price is too high; you vanish in your partner’s current.”

When you’re trying to decide whether staying in your relationship will be truly beneficial or not, ask yourself if you have remained true to who you really are during the time you’ve been with your partner, and what your life would look like if you were no longer together. Remember that having love, approval, kindness and appreciation for yourself is at least as important as getting it from someone else; if these feelings are impossible to have while in your current relationship, it’s time to get back into having a loving, supportive connection with yourself.

And as much as we all enjoy being in love, Lundy cautions against jumping right into seeing someone new: “Give yourself time to get the benefits of being alone and to work through the grief and anger you’re carrying from the relationship that just ended. Build resources into your life that will support you and help to fill the gap left by your partner’s absence. Make friendships a priority, especially with people you can really trust. If you have children, you now have an opportunity to spend significant extra time with them, focusing on having fun and feeling close.”

I am probably going to sound more tough than I intend and if it comes across that way, I do apologize.

End it.

I was in a relationship once (if you count approx 4-6 mos. as a "relationship") and things got physical. She and I were arguing one night and she ended up storming out in a fit of anger. After a few minutes she called me & said "I had to leave before I hit you." So, I replied "then you need to come back & get your things."

She & I were like fire & gasoline. Apart, we are fine, but together, we were volatile. Ironically, our paths still cross and we are friendly towards each other. I have a new policy now-you show me your potential for abuse (or cheating etc) and I will show you the door. First time-no second chances.

No one should endure abuse or the possibility for it. It is not worth it. No relationship, no amount of great sex, fabulous trinkets, or good times are worth the chance of getting hurt. THEN, you have to think, "if we have kids, will it transfer to them?"

I realize that she is in therapy and kudos to her for it. But I would rather be the reason someone got a wake up call & looked back sadly, than the reason my family got a call that woke them up sadly.

:sparklyheart:

You are not alone...
 

Abuse can happen to anyone, regardless of size, gender, or strength, yet the problem is often overlooked, excused, or denied. This is especially true when the abuse is psychological, physical and emotional abuse it can leave deep and lasting scars… abuse often escalates from threats and verbal abuse to violence. And while physical injury may be the most obvious danger, the emotional and psychological consequences of abuse are also severe. Emotionally abusive relationships can destroy your self-worth, lead to anxiety and depression, and make you feel helpless and alone. No one should have to endure this kind of pain—and your first step to breaking free is recognizing that your situation is abusive. Once you acknowledge the reality of the abusive situation, then you can get the help you need… There are many signs of an abusive relationship. The most telling sign is fear of your partner. If you feel like you have to walk on eggshells around your partner—constantly watching what you say and do in order to avoid a blow-up—chances are your relationship is unhealthy and abusive. Other signs that you may be in an abusive relationship include a partner who belittles you or tries to control you, and feelings of self-loathing, helplessness, and desperation… It Is Still Abuse If . . .
• The incidents of physical abuse seem minor when compared to those you have read about, seen on television or heard other women talk about. There isn’t a “better” or “worse” form of physical abuse; you can be severely injured as a result of being pushed, for example.
• The incidents of physical abuse have only occurred one or two times in the relationship. Studies indicate that if your spouse/partner has injured you once, it is likely she will continue to physically assault you.
When people think of abuse, they often picture battered women who have been physically assaulted. But not all abusive relationships involve violence. Just because you’re not battered and bruised doesn’t mean you’re not being abused. Many women suffer from emotional abuse, which is no less destructive. Unfortunately, emotional abuse is often minimized or overlooked—even by the person being abused… Despite what many people believe, domestic violence and abuse is not due to the abuser’s loss of control over her behavior. In fact, abusive behavior and violence is a deliberate choice made by the abuser in order to control you… Abusers use a variety of tactics to manipulate you and exert their power:
Dominance – Abusive individuals need to feel in charge of the relationship. They will make decisions for you and the family, tell you what to do, and expect you to obey without question. Your abuser may treat you like a servant, child, or even as her possession.
• Humiliation – An abuser will do everything she can to make you feel bad about yourself or defective in some way. After all, if you believe you're worthless and that no one else will want you, you're less likely to leave. Insults, name-calling, shaming, and public put-downs are all weapons of abuse designed to erode your self-esteem and make you feel powerless.
• Isolation – In order to increase your dependence on her, an abusive partner will cut you off from the outside world. She may keep you from seeing family or friends, or even prevent you from going to work or school. You may have to ask permission to do anything, go anywhere, or see anyone.
• Threats – Abusers commonly use threats to keep their partners from leaving or to scare them into dropping charges. Your abuser may threaten to hurt or kill you, your children, other family members, or even pets. She may also threaten to commit suicide, file false charges against you, or report you to child services.
• Intimidation – Your abuser may use a variety of intimidation tactics designed to scare you into submission. Such tactics include making threatening looks or gestures, smashing things in front of you, destroying property, hurting your pets, or putting weapons on display. The clear message is that if you don't obey, there will be violent consequences.
• Denial and blame – Abusers are very good at making excuses for the inexcusable. They will blame their abusive and violent behavior on a bad childhood, a bad day, and even on the victims of their abuse. Your abusive partner may minimize the abuse or deny that it occurred. She will commonly shift the responsibility on to you: Somehow, her violent and abusive behavior is your fault.

Abusers are able to control their behavior—they do it all the time.
• Abusers pick and choose whom to abuse. They don’t insult, threaten, or assault everyone in their life who gives them grief. Usually, they save their abuse for the people closest to them, the ones they claim to love.
• Abusers carefully choose when and where to abuse. They control themselves until no one else is around to see their abusive behavior. They may act like everything is fine in public, but lash out instantly as soon as you’re alone.
• Abusers are able to stop their abusive behavior when it benefits them. Most abusers are not out of control. In fact, they’re able to immediately stop their abusive behavior when it’s to their advantage to do so (for example, when the police show up or their boss calls).
• Violent abusers usually direct their blows where they won’t show. Rather than acting out in a mindless rage, many physically violent abusers carefully aim their kicks and punches where the bruises and marks won’t show.
The cycle of violence in domestic abuse
Domestic abuse falls into a common pattern, or cycle of violence:

• Abuse – Your abusive partner lashes out with aggressive, belittling, or violent behavior. The abuse is a power play designed to show you "who is boss."
• Guilt – After abusing you, your partner feels guilt, but not over what she's done. She’s more worried about the possibility of being caught and facing consequences for her abusive behavior.
• Excuses – Your abuser rationalizes what she has done. The person may come up with a string of excuses or blame you for the abusive behavior—anything to avoid taking responsibility.
• "Normal" behavior — The abuser does everything she can to regain control and keep the victim in the relationship. she may act as if nothing has happened, or she may turn on the charm. This peaceful honeymoon phase may give the victim hope that the abuser has really changed this time.

• Set-up – Your abuser sets you up and puts her plan in motion, creating a situation where she can justify abusing you.
Your abuser’s apologies and loving gestures in between the episodes of abuse can make it difficult to leave. she may make you believe that you are the only person who can help her, that things will be different this time, and that she truly loves you. However, the dangers of staying are very real.

I've seen and heard some of my friends in these types of relationships... Some where lucky to still have a chance in life and some weren't... may those friends RIP... It's nothing to play with... This is your life we're talking about... I was one of the lucky ones... I as a Butch too was a victim long ago... I was in the relationship for six years... It took me six very long and abusive years to finally leave her... Don't be that person... turn around and walk away and never look back... This will effect you and any relationship you will have in the future... For a while I felt sooo embarrassed cause I let a Femme abuse me in the way she did and for as long as she did... She had that control and I give it to her... But I learned abuse came regardless of size, gender, or strength... Seriously Get Help and go talk to someone... I did and I was able to move forward... and if I can move forward you can too... As you can see there is a lot of caring people here willing to lend an ear and or a shoulder... Don't let that go to waste... Love and Believe in yourself and take the step to move forward and We're here to help any way we can.... May peace be with you...

I know how difficult what you are going through is, I too at your age went through the same thing. I was 19 when I met my partner, she was 21 years my senior, we stayed together 3 years. She too promised it would not happen again, but in a drunken rage she would lash out and hit me...I am embarassed to say I believed her. She was much bigger than myself, I was small at the time, and she would overpower me. I am a butch, but it can happen to any of us. I watched as my mother was beaten by my stepfather when I was growing up. I knew it was wrong, but I stayed in my relationship, just as my mother had, hoping it would get better. I believed this woman was the one, she understood me and we shared so much, but I was mistaken....Leaving the relationship was the best thing I could have done. It was difficult and I felt so much love for her, but I cannot let someone hurt me or take a piece of me away. It took many years of therapy, but I learned from it and know I could never let that happen again.
Please get away from her....you do not deserve the hurt and the pain, she is not worth it, really. I will be 51 in a few days and I know from first hand experience it does get better....It really does.

First of all kudos for you for sharing, that was very brave of you. And that is the beginning of your healing journey. ((((((dancer)))))

Love never dies, but it can be toxic nonetheless. Sometimes it may not work out. You owe it to yourself and your family, past present and future family to take care of yourself. For a change of pace...

There are many kinds of abuse in this big ole world. Live and learn, get the help, there is a lot out there. Access those resources which abound in pretty much every community, unless you are in Timbuktwo, though they probably have em too.

Great suggestions here. All I can say is nothing is ever black and white. The oddest thing about abusers is they can come off to the outside world as the most polite and gracious people on earth, they can seem to be very loving people. I am speaking from the experiences of those I have met that have been incarcerated for their brutal crimes. As a nurse we get to interact with these folks and it is unnerving that they are often times the easiest of our patient load. Down right respectful to us for the most part. Though again, it is not black and white.

I have rarely seen an abuser change it's spots. But I do think people can change, including you. And ultimately that is who you are responsible to and for. Change must happen. In fact if you are not changing, growing... you are stagnating and that is akin to death.

Live. It is a choice as to how you want to do that, who you want to have in your life, what sort of home, career, family you will have. What vocations, passions you will persue and keeping those around you who support you in whatever your endeavors may be.

Be strong and know you can get thru this. You have a ton of support here and in your real life community, I am quite certain of that.

Lean on us, continue to vent, problem solve, and continue this amazing journey of self discovery. Remember that sometimes from our pain, comes our finest triumphs, our biggest lessons.

Take Care,
Di

Oh boy ! I won't sugar coat anything so here is my 2 cents worth. You said you couldn't believe this happened to you in the begining of your post, yet by the end you are entertaining the idea of maybe getting back with her. REALLY? She showed you who she is, why didn't you believe her the first time. You are what you do , plain and simple.
She has low self-esteem, she is insecure, abusive, clearly has a drinking problen that you don't seem to recognize, and she is unpredictable. Now what about that is so attractive to you ?
You need to tell her , not only NO BUT FUCK NO.
Why are you wasting your time giving this a moments thought. She has no respect for you and already bulldozed over many boundries. There are hundreds of awesome butches out there. Don't you deserve better?
Of course she wants you back, you already showed her you'll put up with her abuse. She is a needy coward, slam dunk her and choose better this time.

I don't think I could have said it any better.

Go, go now.

http://www.cchers.org/cap/about.html

please read link above
I chose this page because it shows what healthy relationships are like in comparison.

any form of abuse is a cycle
Control ,manipulation, threats, isolation can be just as painful as finding
yourself in a punching bag situation.

At 26, I met my dream woman. Beautiful ,perfect body,hot in the sack and dripping with charisma. There was not much I would not do for her.
I played chicken with a car ( she was threatening suicide), took a super heavy ,glass ashtray to the head, nearly got clocked and burnt with a frying pan full of hot grease, dodged a hot iron flying through the air, etc,etc.

The honeymoon (I'm so sorry, I will do whatever you want,I'll do treatment and therapy followed by romance for days and mindblowing sex) all kept me hooked, for nearly nine months.
She could charm the pants off of any butch ( for a minute) and last I heard all these years later is that she is still doing the exact same thing.

My self esteem was in the fucking gutter because I could not fix her.
I was too young to get that ,it was not my job.
Nothing I did was good enough and I never knew what I was coming home to.
My life was isolated because it was humuliating and no one would understand.
My escape route was my dog who spent more and more time cowering in the basement versus getting love from me/us/her (The crazy couple.)
I loved my dog and hated to see what it was doing to her.Later, I focused
on what it did to me.

When you question your own sanity, feel smothered, are manipulated by
suicide threats, embaressed by public scenes and never know what your
coming home to, you are in an emotionally, abusive relationship.
When your opinion or well being does not matter and is never up for consideration or a priority to that person, why are you still there?
When someone tries to burden the bulk of the realtionship on you to fix
and you are not allowed time for any self care, friends or pleasure time (of your choosing) accept it for what it is and get the hell out. That aint love.

I agree with Theo.

Hitting another person is wrong!

There is some wonderful advice here. Some of it I needed. :)

Being retired law enforcement, I have seen the cycle, the pain and the damage. They never mean it, and of course they'll change.....BULLSHIT! Don't just walk away from this, RUN! Jagg said it best for me.

:praying: I've never been in an abusive relationship. One (my first Butch) was sometimes cranky and too controlling, but she NEVER hit me.

I dated someone for awhile who made me crazy. Did you ever have crazy love? Seriously, did you? Well, this one was my crazy love. One night she made me so mad....I tore the coke-a-cola BEARS boxers right off of her, then kicked her in the ass.:| I was glad a few minutes later that I was bare footed when I swift kicked her.

To add insult to injury. I found out later, they were my boxers. I swear that butch made me nuts. Glad I wised up and got away from her. Because it was crazy love, it was hard to break it off.

Yes, therapy is imperative.

Possession of property??!

Your ex will only keep hitting you. Don't go back to her. Ever. Not only should you not go back to your ex, you shouldn't get into a relationship with ANYONE right now. You say you hit your ex. Get therapy and don't even think about starting with a new girlfriend until you learn some good relationship models.

Please contact your local domestic violence shelter for support. When/if she figures out/feels like she can't get you back with sweetness and promises, you will very likely be in danger again.

This website will let you search for the shelter in your area: http://www.womenshelters.org/

All domestic violence shelters also offer non-residential services, such as support groups, individual counseling, and legal advocates.

I believe , what that poster meant by that was

*"the love you to death" & "if I cant have you, no one else will" people
*controlling ,possessive folks who now own you( or feel like they do)

***amen, JAGG. amen...

get out NOW. RUN and Do Not Look Back.

Dancer, are you quoting what I posted earlier? If so, please elaborate...

I read the opening post a few hours before I posted.
Somehow, ( I think brainwashing by society and who normally hits who sterio type bs)
I did not remember the part of you hitting her at all.
This would have definately changed my post, had I retained the whole story.

In my experience ,I was in such shock it was happening to me I was unable to
do much other than protect my head from getting pummeled or dodge flying objects.
The shame of getting physically battered by a femme was huge for me.
I found out later commiserating with one of her ex's that she equated violence with love and wanted it in return. She hit her back and they were magically abusive together for five years. The incidents became more life threatening like jumping out on the freeway,
wielding weapons on each other,etc.


I did get therapy over this event and a few other (not so choice) times in my life.

So yes, get therapy. Your self esteem will grow, you wont be insecure if you learn to value and love yourself. You wont believe the bs that you are less than , if not in a relationship. You wont want to be violent yourself if you learn to deal with your own anger.

Do not stop to hit someone who you are trying to get away from. hellooooo

People really do die sometimes. Sometimes because they stay, sometimes when they leave and sometimes on the inside from being beat down for way too long.
Dont fuck around with your life. The truth is never gentle in abusive situations.

Whoa, whoa. I didn't "batter" her, and I don't own any weapons whatsoever, nor would I threaten anyone with one...not sure if you're implying that I did, but...one of the reasons this has been hard is that, while I did slap her the one time, and felt/feel extreme guilt for it, it was when she was drunk, I was already terrified, she had pulled a knife on me and choked me previusly, and someone twice my size was bearing down on me, screaming in my face, and refusing to leave my apartment when I was begging them to out of fear. So, the question for me has been where the line is drawn. People/domestic violence websites will say the size, gender ID, etc., doesn't factor in, and on an emotional/moral level I agree, but physically it is simply untrue. She held me down and barely let me breathe for 15 minutes. She put all of her weight on me and almost crushed me. I could never do that to her, no matter how angry I was; and no matter how angry I was, or what she did to me, I COULD NOT defend myself. Slapping her did not hurt her. She did not even flinch. When she was chasing me down the street, I really had nowhere to go. She had taken my phone, we had been in her car, and she had pulled over where no one could see us and there were no houses. She was bearing down on me, using her size to intimidate me, and SHE HAD JUST PULLED A KNIFE ON ME AND THREATENED TO MURDER ME. So I tried to fight back by hitting her, but still she grabbed me, and threw me down by my hair, then got in my face, pinned me down and continued to scream while I cried. So. I'm not saying that I made the correct decisions, or that everything I did was right. It clearly wasn't. But I was emotionally beholden to her at this point, and felt physically helpless. Even if I had TRIED, this could not have been "mutual abuse." She choked me on several occasions, poured a drink in my face once and pinned me down or threw me down several times, as well as brandishing the weapon. I slapped her once when I was already scared and trapped in an apartment (she, once again, took my phone so I couldn't call the police). So, even though I feel guilt, because violence is not the answer, a lot of these posts have focused on my one slap...and I feel that I have to be fair to myself, that this was a pattern for her (in past relationships as well), and not for me. She tried to make me feel that, because I attempted (always failing) to defend myself, I was "abusing" her too. And that's just not what happened.

And you are wondering if you should give her another chance?

I think you just answered your own question...

and IMO anytime one partner hits another partner it is abuse... (Unless that's the way your dynamic is set up)

So you do not allow for self defense? I was supposed to allow her to drunkenly attack me??!

I didn't mean that to sound rude, at all. It's just that people keep saying I should have done something different, and I'm not sure what that was. I was screaming and crying, but no one came; I had no phone to call anyone; and I could not just "walk away" because she was trapping and following me, and/or pinning me down or putting her hand over my mouth. So what on earth else was I supposed to do, if I'm not allowed to ever lay a hand on anyone?