What makes a Butch "Butch"
 

I have thought about this for a while and would like to hear from others on what they think makes a Butch "Butch".

Is it the walk, the talk, the swagger, the clothes or is it something inside...

Can a Butch dress like a Femme and still be butch inside or is that just to weird? I know plenty of Femmes' who can fix a car or do manual labor. Who can put on a pair of jeans and t-shirt and look just as butch as some butches, but can a Butch put on a dress and heels, go out for a night on the town and still be a butch?

I believe they can, because it is not what is on the outside, but what is on the inside....

I would love to hear from others on this subject.

Hell maybe I will try this experiment just to see...."no pictures please".

Of course...
 

His huge cock


*waiting for Lady Snow*

No, not REALLY, and you have studying too much!

Wellll
 

I would of said


Her...

by definition butch = female masculinity and the ability to fight (and loose gracefully) Snow over who has the biggest cock...........:fastdraq:

i hate identity policing. i tend to take people on their word based on how they self-identify. to me, the clothes should not make the butch anymore than they make the femme, but i think femmes have a lot more freedom in wearing clothing that's traditionally considered "masculine" than butches do in terms of how we are treated at least. i've been told i'm not "not femme enough" plenty of times, but i feel like there's even more of a stigma against a butch dressing in ways that are deemed "feminine."

i like the idea of butch as female masculinity, but i also know many trans* male-id'ed folks who identify as butch (including my partner) and definitely don't identify with "female."

to me, femme is queer/subversive feminine identity. i know a lot of folks don't necessarily like the word queer, but in the sense of "not heteronormative" or "self-defined" or "radical" or "subversive" i think queer masculinity might also be one way of understanding butch. i know some people feel that butch and femme are gender identities and some people feel they are performative (and so there are normative ways to perform them)...for me, i see them as identities that can be performed in any way - so what you wear doesn't necessarily change the id.

edited - i just realized this is in the butch zone, i hope it's okay that i've posted here. apologies if i am speaking out of turn. <3

I think part of it is the outside appearance. We judge, observe, based on what we see. While that does not make a person, sometimes it is what we base perceptions off of.

When I think of the word 'butch', the way they walk come to mind. You know what I mean, right? 'The walk'. Something about it just makes my heart beat a little faster ;)

When it comes to my partner, it's a multitude of looks, of actions, that make her butch. Does she dress masculine? Yes. From the tips of her cowboy boots to her baggy jeans, to the Skoal can in her back pocket. Button-down men's shirt with a tie, cowboy hat sitting just so. It's the way she drawls "Hey gorgeous", the way her lips turn up when she smiles at me, the smouldering look in her eyes when we make love. It's the way she wraps her arms around me when we go to bed at night, the caress of her fingertips on my face when she brushes my hair back, the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd. It's the loving way she brings me dinner to work, the "I love you" text messages throughout the day, the spontaneous love notes. I realize some of this do not 'mean' butch - they mean love, a partner - but it's what makes my partner 'my butch'.. so it counts, right?

*smiles*

What makes me butch
 

Nothing MAKES me butch I just am. It's what I have always been. If you put a dress on me I'd still be butch. I'd just be a really bad drag queen.

Musicman

If a butch chooses to wears a dress and heels hy/she isn't dressing 'like a femme', hy/she's dressing like a butch who likes dresses and heels.

Nothing weird about it.

Words

I,m with you on the bad drag queen,My past partners/gf,s have all loooked so damn sexy in my shirts... but i,m thinking that me in theirs might not get the same reaction.Their is humor in this statement but also i really believe it has some truth to it.

I dated an idiot once who yelled at me that she was too butch to wear a bikini top. I could understand if we lived in a society where women risked being bashed for wearing bikini tops, but we were going to a beach with a bunch of gays, none of whom really cared about ID. She may have thought she was being big and butch, but how comfortable can you be about your ID if you have to rely on rigid clothing rules to get your message across?

I love my honey in a bikini...top and bottoms! Of course she played water polo for years so she has those broad swimmers shoulders. :) I appreciate the rainbow of varieties that butches can come in...ALL people for that matter! To me it is all about respect, both for yourself and others, and checking your judgement at the door.

I too am a fan of bikini tops. Not that you get to see them much in this impossibly cold country that I'm in.

Yesterday when I was driving to work, I was at a stop light. I was looking arous and spotted a cute butch in a jeep. Short crew cut, baseball hat, sweatshirt... Typical bucth presentation. When the light turned green, she put her hands on the steering wheel, and her fake nails were longer and more glittery than mine. For a sec I was like... Maybe she wasn't a "butch"... But then I was like, you go! Be who you wanna be. If you wanna dress up like a femme one night and go out on the town, do it! If you wanna dress up in a suit and tie the next, do it! We only live once and the best part of life of self expression. No one can change who you are inside.

Hugs

ETA: I think it's the energy. Period!

I love it!! Gender bending is so fabulous :) My property manager is a big butch and has long, red, gorgeous nails. I asked her about them once and she said it just feels good to her. 'Nuff said :)

Its because people might look and say upon first : She isnt butch...when in fact, she is, but cant make that known to people without having a certain look that she might feel conveys her butchness.

If someone wants to wear a csrtain type of clothing to convey this, then leave them be and let them do what makes them one with how they ID.
Its not about what they where, it is about how what they wear makes them feel. If that makes her an idiot, then I am one proud idiot in all my butchness. :winky:
Just my .02 :winky:

I dont know what made me a butch... other than I was just born this way. If my mom put some frilly thing or dress on me as soon as I hit the door to go outside it came off.. I would run the hood neekid rather than wear frilly stuff, thats just how I was. I dont think you can lump us butches in a neat box like that,we have our own tastes and likes about everything *shrugs* even how we like to dress,or what type we are attracted to.

I have never had nails until now. So for most of my lesbian life I have not had nails or nail polish despite being femme. In fact a lesbian twigged me in a straight setting once, purely on the basis of my hands.

I'm femme and I walk like a man apparently. Somehow I can manage this even in heels, which I don't wear any more so I guess I walk like a man all the time now.

My hubby used to have long hair in his previous life, it was the only 'feminine' thing about him. Obviously now it's shortshort, but he still misses his hair sometimes.

Hair, nails, walk, none of it really has a 'gender'. Anyone can 'drink like a man' or 'cry like a girl'. Yet even though our gender attributes are all mixed up, we all still know if we're male or female/ masculine or feminine/ gay or straight. It's strange that we just know, it's strange that we need to have these distinctions. It's an interesting question. What is a butch if it has nothing to with hair, clothing or sex? What is it that defines her and contrasts her to a femme? I wish I knew the answer to that.

This got me thinking how for some people it doesn’t seem to be okay for masculine people of any ilk including butches to wear feminine clothing or participate in any ritual deemed feminizing, but for feminine people there doesn’t seem to be this same rigidity. I don’t know if it has to do with masculine borders being patrolled more stringently but that would be my guess. Male has more currency than female so it stands to reason it would be more highly valued and more aggressively monitored. I believe this is what is behind the hatred of both female masculinity and masculine femininity in general.

I remember a past partner of mine expressing her displeasure and concern over my wearing blouses to work ( i changed jobs while we were together and had to get dressed up more). She felt it took away from my butchness. I doubt much of anything could take away my butchness but that’s just me.

I also painted my toenails orange one summer. I thought it looked good with my tan. Again my partner was not a fan. I have never done my fingernails I just don't think I would like it much or do it well. I had enough trouble coloring inside the lines as a kid. Toenails are more forgiving.

My wife doesn't care what I do. She has encouraged me to let my hair grow cause she loves the curls. I don't get the feeling she things my butchness is connected to anything outside myself.

what makes a decent human being
that's the kind of thread that would feel new to me.
there may suddenly be a "need" to start a femme version of this thread
sigh (maybe there already is one?)

we all have our own types we are attracted to
and hopefully they evolve as we do (hopefully)
period.
the end.

I think threads like this set up more of a competition (undercurrent) amongst each other.
At the end of the day Who cares how you present ,just be ok with yourself ( an inside job )
Insecurities ,jealousy and in fighting. I've seen it, felt it and know it's true.
I could give a fuck who you (the general you) are dating ,because guess what, I don't want her.
That's not how I roll or the kind of human being I am.

I can count the butch friends I have on one hand.(after many years online
and in real life)
They are all secure in themselves and know I am not a threat to their relationships or "butch-hood" <eyeroll>
I could give a fuck what they wear swimming and would not diss them.
There is no weird (frat boy) butch posturing... I hate that more than anything. <puke>
Or leg lifting , a trait I've seen in all genders <ew>

I have (in my many years) been attracted to femme's with short nails and short hair <gasp>
brains, compassion, integrity and humor are hot.
("be about something")
It takes more than getting your nails done and hairs did to keep me interested. call me crazy :seconddoh:
I have many a gay man crush based of their honesty first and their pretty eyes or a nice ass second.
Real allies in this life? I dig them. period.
on a bit of a roll today
pardon me :coffee:

:) "applauds" you Dude, very well said :)

my first recalls of being emotionally attracted to women were teachers in 3rd and 5th grades. one teacher was sweet. the other was strict. it was about the way they treated me with a feminine way of affection and caring. these were some the first feelings that i had, .. knowing but unknowing to an extent, ... that i am a lesbian.

i've never changed a tire or changed the oil. i like sundresses. i'm quiet, ... i don't make a scene. what i do in life is preference. what we like to do or what we like to wear/appearance or how we act, ... varies. we are individuals. our personalities are attracted to what feels natural, at ease. or simply what we think makes us look good. whatever gets the groove on. choice and natural meet up to form indiviualism.

it's true, energy differentiates butch and femme. i am a lesbian butch. i was born with some masculine traits. not entirely. for example, i am an emotional person. the tears roll so easy. that's not thought of as masculine. a butch is a female with some maleness about her. just a woman with a bit of butchiness. and with that said, i'm under the impression that some femmes like it. that's a good deal from where i am.

Being butch or femme is not a matter of outward accoutrements (dress, hair, nails). And sometimes it isn't even a matter of self-identity. It is truly a matter of energy.

Many butches are indeed female-bodied; others find themselves along a range of trans-expression (whether they are still female-bodied or not). All of them generate male energy, whether in a swagger, a smirk, a look, a presence. It is an intrinsic part of their very core.

Put one of them in a dress or red nails. They're still butch.

For me, though, to see their delicious maleness transposed over a fleeting whisper of femaleness that sometimes passes across their faces is...... well....swoonable. It is a soft expression of vulnerability within a strong persona.

Damn...

Being butch is every fibre of my make up, it's who I am. Put me in a dress and I am a butch in a dress. Dress me in a starched white shirt,cuff links,tie, waistcoat,jacket and trousers and I feel like its a second skin, a glove, moulding my body and exuding my confidence.

I love being butch - its who I am.

I hear you and agree on many of your statements. Ive had to remind myself that alot of these threads even amongst the controversy or undertones have folks reading/looking at them some of whom are brand spanking new to this site.Some of them growing,learning,maturing,absorbing.Who maybe need to hear both sides and/or need to hear someone else thoughts challenged.

I get reminded regularly that "its not always about you' which helps me realize somebody else may benefit from this convo.

I guess I should have been more clear with my post as I did not
mean any offense to the Original Post.
I do get there are people here of all ages and growing processes.
My post was not meant to minimize anyone but just an observation
I've had over the years.
I could almost bet in a day or so a "gold star butch" will appear who
is the greatest butch of all ( in their own mind) and I think that
kind of posturing is gross.
I like to think someone might get some comfort from what old goats have
to say as well.
I'm not trying to shut down the conversation at all, in fact.
I like to think there is room for everyone here and I have earned my seat here
as well, thanks.

I'm thinking were r on same page. as i stated in my agreement with your statements...

My comments werent in opposition as you also state yours werent either.

just sharing information, points of view and thoughts which is what i love about all these threads.