Sexism in Technology
 

I was having a discussion the other night with a geeky friend and recalled various themes of sexism I have encountered at different levels of technology.

One good example of this is that I am a member of several other forums, several of which have nothing to do with gender, Queer, etc. On one of these forums I chose a screen name that is gender-neutral. I have posted on those forums for several months, having conversations on various topics, talking about my likes and dislikes. A few weeks ago, I became involved in a rather heated conversation with another woman. After several heated exchanges, several folks started coming into the thread telling me that I "ought to be ashamed of myself" for speaking to a woman that way and that I was NOT a gentleman. I was puzzled. Most of the people who made these statements were folks I had interacted with several times. After private messaging with a few of them, I was told that most everyone on the site had assumed I was a man because of my "stern way of communicating and articulation around topics that mostly men are concerned with" (like politics??? seriously??)

This wasnt the first time this had happened to me - that people had assumed I was a man by my written communication style. That, because I am a woman, they expected me to communicate online in a certain way?

Anyone else have this happen? Any Trans Males notice a difference in communications online since transitioning? Any Butches who have noticed this?

Some other issues that might be relevant to sexism in technology:

* The notoriously sexist advertising for GoDaddy.com
* Sexist hiring practices in the tech field?

Let's talk!

Oh girl... don't even get me started with the Godaddy BS.

As you know I work in the domain name space. I run a domain name company. I deal with it online and in person All. The. Time.

I'm a member at several domain related forums under my real name and just a couple of months ago someone recommended a poster reach out to "Kellie at Name.com, she's awesome and will help you out in a snap". That poster was promptly "corrected" and told that Kellie was a man. Sigh.

I get it on another forum on a much more regular basis and you guessed it - I have a gender neutral user name. Even though I have "female-ish" listed as my gender. Seems communication styles do, indeed, play a major role in gender identification online.

YAY! I was hoping you would chime in!

I was wondering, Kellie, do you ever talk to someone on the phone with your job and when they meet you in person, they have a noticeable reaction to the fact that you arent in a skirt and heels?

Oh Seriously I LOVE This Shit
 

BRILLIANT examples!

The first two are particularly violent. Im going to look for an ad that I remember seeing several years back to add to the collection.

Keep them coming, Selly!

Or this one from Dell:

http://stilettorevolt.com/wp-content...delledit-1.jpg


I can hear the ad exec meetings now:

Ad exec 1: "I cant think of any good ideas to sell this computer!"

Ad exec 2: "Just stick a pretty woman on it!"

http://www.mexned.nl/html/humour/Computer4Women.jpg


http://www.mexned.nl/html/humour/mouse-pad1.jpg

And I cant tell you how many times I have heard that I "hired PapaChris or Linus to build this site"

(but that might be because people think Im stupid, not a woman) ;)

Hmmm. Thought provoking...
 

Although this is "hardly" my area of expertise...

I will say the same theme, through administration in time, big corporations of any product, and now into the very technical fields there always appears to remain the toughest challange for women to prove themselves. Any field, it seems - where "advancement" may be giving credit to women...(?)

Hell, only fifty years ago - most women were still expected to just be housewives.

The tit mousepads... a bit offensive. I'm sure there are "other kinds" as well... (No thanks.)

And Medusa, you're an assertive women. Powerful women are unfortunately [still at times] considered only aggressive bitches - but, when it's a man in the same exact work situation EVEN being "aggressive" then (!), "he's one hell of a good strong intelligent employee/leader" in his field (heck, in this world).

That's the way I see it anyway - in a very generalized way. (I think Japan is better now in the technical field for sharing credit with women - I could be mistaken though.) We might be giving more now to women in the medical fields with technical advancements though... (?) I have a relative who recently began a field in cancer research.

The advertisements here are atrocious. (Frightening actually.)

My sister works for Intel. I'll have to get a quick opinion sex ratio from her (then their stats), for the higher paid positions. But, you're also talking about attitudes. Stat that (?) At least I know where she is they are a bit progressive with regards towards gay employees. Well, gay men, I'm not sure if it's equal in attitude with gay women. I'm not sure about transsexuals. I will "dig" around a bit with her.

How did you feel being referred to or assumed a gentleman [not?] Medusa?


WILD


Just my wooden nickel's worth anyway for a good thread start. Good luck.

I can bet, as I work with a large corporation that is up-and-coming in the software world, the higher Board of Director positions will be rarely women. Women in IT aren't really known. In fact, can you name any? You can name Bill Gates, Woz, Jobs, Torvalds but do you know of Ada Lovelace (first programmer), Grace Hopper (created COBOL language that's used in the majority of banks and other large institutions as the main language; this was also the language that caused all that stir about Y2K), Susan Kare (did all those graphics for icons and such on the Apple when it first appeared), Sally Floyd (worked on TCP, part of the protocols that built the internet) and so on.. Heck, there was Carly Fiorina, CEO of HP who walked out when she fought with the board and even my own company's first CEO, Diane Green, who also left after differences of opinion.

When I was an instructor at a private IT school, the majority of networking admin types (non-programmers) were guys. Very few women went through the course (odd since network admin requires more human contact and socialization if we're to look at gender roles and how communications are done) while programming (often a solitary job) was nearly or over 50% women.

Although IT tries to come across as being whacky and unique and not necessarily caring about gender, the reality is true. We expect IT support, admins and engineers to be men. We expect answers from men and the image of a geek is either the nerdy Matthew Broderick (see Wargames) or, if a woman, it's Angelina Jolie (Hackers). It's interesting that Sandra Bullock's character from The Net isn't something that comes to mind for people when thinking about women in science.

It's interesting that Google came up with those images as it's contrary to what I envisioned. When I think of scientist my first thought is an older woman in a lab coat. Bing's search results were similar but their first female images are better than the ones listed here. I know that there are (were?) programs in place to encourage women into math and sciences more but those programs don't seem as prominent as they used to be. Are they still in place?

I combat technological sexism by doing my own research.
 

I guess I am rather odd when it comes to sexism, I personally do not see anything wrong with the ads for things, sex sells for alot of products and it works, people gobble up certain products simply because of what the ad has displayed.

But what about the male underwear models? Isn't that sexism too?

I don't partake in technology so I am not much for conversation when it comes to that topic but I put my 2 cents in when I have an opinion.

Wherever you go... There you are.
 

:bunchflowers: For Medusa

I just don't get sexism no matter what field. Look at medicine. Who would have ever imagined male nurses, and female doctors?

For me, I have more genetically male disorders. When I was being tested by a woman, by law, she had to confer with another doctor. The two were quite shocked at the results. They went to a 3rd doctor. Same response. 2 women, 1 man, but the same results.

Basic essentials of running a website I know that Dusa and Jack did great. I am sure Linus helped out with the smilies & Papa Chris did whatever. But that is just a small fraction of what is involved in something this huge. In the end, the full credit goes to Dusa and Jack. They are the ones who keep this site up and running all hours of the day and night. They are the ones who need full credit of our new home. For me, it makes no difference if someone is male or female id'ed. All that matters is that we are here together as a family. So, my hat is off to Medusa and Jack.

Medusa, do not ever let anyone tell you that you did nothing because you are a female. You do more than you will ever know. I have the utmost respect for you, and always have. You just hold your head high, and know that alot of us are so proud of you and your accomplishments.

Use of a computer is technology but if you are talking about IT fields, etc I have no knowledge.

But I see anything that is sexual in any nature such as underwear models, the pics you posted on here, etc as sexism of both genders. But thats just my opinion.

I heard someone call my name.

whatever improvements there might have been in the last 20 years in Technology, is still not enough. IT is predominately dominated by men, and I'd personally be lying if I said that I wasn't aware of it on a cellular level when I stepped further into this career path (of sorts).

Even though, most of my bosses and clients and co-workers (like my ex gf) are women, and I've got some amazing work history with some pretty smart IT women (they're like blow your fuckin' minds smart), the image is still male, the brute force of numbers of geek still reads MALE, the only real advance I'm seeing is Marketing (how ironic). The marketing people have figured out that women have similar levels of interest in goods and services related to IT.

But sorry, do I believe that sexism is improving in IT?

Would you like to know how fuckin happy I'll be if I ever work on internet phone support again, that I *won't* be asked on a date or offered flowers or ask if I'm married or have a boyfriend?

:glare:

Thanks Selly, really,.... pointing me to this thread didn't give me happy joy joy feelings

(but you knew that didn't you).

For a really fascinating read, try "Making Programming Masculine" - http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~nathanen/files/cbi-gender.pdf . Sort of a history of how IT started out female-dominated in the 1940s and became ever more a boysport over time.

Thanks Selly, but I happen to love tulips.
of all colours.

I was born in a land full of tulips

Signed,

-the manly one

I see alot of things as wrong in many ads that do include both genders. All I am saying is that sexism runs rampant with both genders. MY opinion only. Not to be taken as said word.

The sexism that runs rampant in both genders is different.

Women are most often portrayed in *violently* sexist ads. Check out the ads that Selly posted: Particularly the ones where one woman is chained to a bed (think: sex slave) and the other ad where the woman appears to have been shot in the head.

Women are also portrayed often as disjointed body parts. Random asses, breasts, mouths, legs, etc. And dont get me started on how often women are portrayed as sexual automatons (think the plug-in woman). I have often made comments about feeling like a "Stepford Pussy" when people value the body part over the person. This is reinforced daily in advertising.

It's nearly impossible to find comparable ads depicting men in the same manner in which they depict women. If they are out there, they are scarce.
(Unless of course I am googling the wrong search terms).

I googled, binged and such and didn't come up with anything and if they are out there is VERY VERY scarce and it's being hidden.

Ads that Depict Violence Against Men
 

Here's a good start: http://www.genderads.com/Vio._Ag._Males.html

Interesting to note that a great number of the ads appear to be subjugating the power of men (i.e the stiletto in the back, the chains around the neck and being walked like dogs)

Also interesting to note that you don't see these things as advertisements.

Er, they're all ads.

I've never seen them here. When I turn on my TV, or flip open a magazine - or drive past a billboard - I don't see ads like these. It's usually the other way around.

And ... when you consider the number of ads like these versus ads against women - again, it's far and few in between.

With all respect, whether YOU'VE seen them is merely anecdotal and, frankly, irrelevant to the question of whether violence against men is being depicted in advertising. It's rather the same argument that many people use to say sexism doesn't exist at all, simply because they've never seen it (somehow); I've heard women say they've never experienced it.

As for quantifying the number of ads that show women in misogynistic, violent poses versus that of men, your point is taken, of course. It doesn't excuse those that depict men in similar positions, nor does it make those ads less offensive and demeaning to all people.

So a question to all about these ads: do you consider these as a way of reclaiming some privilege or as something else?

My point was that it is not as "mainstream" as violence against women. Of course I KNOW that violence against men exists - but it is not as "acceptable" or as "common" as that of the depiction of women. When I turn on my TV, I don't see some guys junk hanging out in a car ad - I'll see boobs. Lots of boobs. Boobs and ass. Boobs, ass and ... well you get the drift.

I see some of them as playing to mens' sexual fantasies. The ads in the link that had both men and women tended toward mild/vanilla-ish BDSM. The overall levels of violence were quite mild compared to what one finds in the female ads from the same site.

linkyloo

Ads that feature blood and bodies (or body parts) aren't appropriate, not matter the sex of the model; those sorts of ads are far more common and mainstream, though, when the victim is female.

It used to happen all the time. But now that I'm a higher profile person word has gotten out that I'm a dyke. And I'm visible on the web as well so people tend to Google me and aren't as obvious.

When I was working the phones years ago I used to get all sorts of BS. Before that I worked in video retail and regularly got hassled by guys who loved my voice and would call to ask about adult films, etc. Even had guys sending me flowers and other "gifts" completely unsolicited. Sigh.

My favorite personal experience was several years ago when I was working transfer support for a hosting company in New Mexico (by the way - working for a man I now employ!) and I was on a call with a "gentleman" who said "Honey, you don't know what you're talking about. Let me talk to a guy. Any guy." and I turned him over to my boss who politely listened and then said "Sir, let me have you speak to Kellie again - she's the expert in this area and can help you out." And I never had a problem with that customer again.

NotAnAverageGuy - I think you might be confusing using sex to sell with sexism. Yes, both men and women are used to sell products. The difference comes in when you look at the context.

It makes sense to see a man or a woman in underwear when that's what you're selling. If you're selling a domain name or web hosting please explain to me why tits and ass come into play?

Why is that so often when we talk about things like violence against women, someone says "you know, it happens to men once in a while too", and we find ourselves on the defensive? It's not prevalent, it's not widely accepted by society, and it's not a valid argument. I say enough of that bullshit!

The answer is simple, really. It's not pleasant but it's simple.