Tristan Taormino - loves butch girls
 

I saw this quote in another thread. When it started with I love butch girls, I was cautiously optimistic of its contents. By the time I finished I was both amused and annoyed.


"I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger... Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives... It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them."

-Tristan Taormino


This is why it was annoying to me. I'm wondering if anyone else is having the same or similar thoughts.

1. The word "girl" to me indicates a prepubescent female. To me, post puberty, "girls" become women. To refer to grown people as "girls" to me seems disrespectful and almost infantilizing. It might just be a pet peeve of mine.

2. While Tristan is entitled to her version of what a "butch girl" is. I would have preferred if she worded it as her opinion or preference or what gets her blood hot rather than using sweeping generalizations and stereotypical examples lumped into "butch girls". "Butch" is a very large category of very diverse people, appearances, presentations, genders, etc.

3. This made me chuckle - "Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives". We have Tristan. Regardless of how we now identify, we are female either by birth or by choice. We have your body. We have explored your body. We know your body. We know how to play your body much like a musician plays an instrument. We know how to make many different kinds of music with that body to bring you the different pleasure you might desire. Why does her quote make it seem like some miracle or strange twist of fate?

4. This confused me - "the girls who are a different gender". I admit, I still have trouble with the sex/gender thing. But is this even logical? Can you be a girl of a different gender? Arent you a "girl/female" or gendered in a way more representative of who you are using whatever term you choose to use?

So, your thoughts?

For me the term 'girl' is yicky for butches or other masculine minded persons.. Could just be that the more masculine minded friends of mine all cringe when "girl" is used to refer to them.

As for the generalization - if we sterilize and PC everything - then it loses it's flow IMO. I don't take her to be defining me, I take her to be defining what she encompasses as butch. I get her point. If it doesn't apply to me, I move along. I don't expect the world to use PC lingo all the time. This may make me the rebel, and I'm ok with that. I don't want all of my literature to read like a legal document.

I just need to pipe in and say that the word *girl* can be considered belittling/demeaning to those of us non-butches as well as it is often misapplied to adult women in general. When referring to adult males, the corresponding term of *boy* is rarely applied.

That being said, I don't believe the author of the quote is doing that here (being intentionally demeaning).

I just wanted to point out that the term *girl* is overused in general and can grate on all identities.

Thoughts
 

I loved her wording, for me it described how it feels to have the visual, sexual, physical effect I have and have had towards a girl who's opposite of me. Also I can identify with the gender since my gender is not what was imposed at birth. When I read the word girl in her quote above I can close my eyes and visualize my first girl kiss to the first time I was touched by a girl who wore clothes only the boys wore. I have more but typing on this iPhone is a pain in the booty!

completely agree! however among my friendship group, I see a large portion of "as long as it's me or mine calling me a girl I'm ok with it".

So either way... I act according to whatever the person wants to be called.

I'm not referring to any of us who use the term *girl* in an affectionate or personal way b/w lovers and/or friends. Of course, whatever terms float your boat b/w you and your SO or peer group is cool. I am talking about the overuse and misapplication of the term *girl* by society at large when referring to women.

Tristan Taormino (born May 9, 1971) is a feminist author, columnist, sex educator, activist, editor, speaker, and pornographic film director (she also appeared in three films, two of which she directed, 1999–2000).

She teaches sex and relationship workshops around the world and lectures at top colleges and universities including Princeton, Yale, Brown, Columbia, Cornell, University of Toronto, Wesleyan, Vassar, University of Oregon, Swarthmore, and New York University, where she speaks on gay and lesbian issues, sexuality and gender, and feminism.

Taormino stated in an online interview, "I identify strongly as queer and as a dyke, because, as I have said before, it's not just about who I fuck and love, being queer is also about my politics, my culture, my community, and the way I see the world. People want to call me bisexual or pansexual or whatever, but I believe in people's power to self-identity."

In addition, "she describes herself as 'equal opportunity.' She doesn't like the word 'bisexual' -- it's too polarizing."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan_Taormino


Just a brief synopsis of who this is.

Thanks so much Kobi!! I was just about to ask, who the heck is Tristan Taormino?? LoL!! You saved me the embarrassment of being told (and rightly so!) to go Google her!

I took the "girl" word as playful myself. The hair part reminds me to go get a trim. It's getting a bit shaggy. Otherwise, I thought it was great!

LOL

I googled her, but I am at work, so....


https://p.twimg.com/Axiku3YCAAAGYFa.jpg

the part that got my attention is u know how to play a womans body like an isntrument >>> hmm << wants to be a drum .. bang me baby ~ lol ?? j/k .. maybe not..

Might I say... Tristan writes some very hot stuff... very... she's one of the top three on my list (along with Patrick Califia and Laura Antoniou)

From a language perspective, I can see why she chose the word "girl". I don't think she would ever call a butch person a "girl", but in her writing, she chose the word that most contrasted with butch. Butch: tough, masculine, hard. Girl: sweet, feminine, soft. I think it was an creative artistic choice. I like the quote, though I can understand why you might object to it. I, however, think it's beautifully written. (And I don't think of butches as "girls". But I doubt the author does either.)

Art works
 

I interpreted it as art via words, it resonates with each word you can literally feel it with her words and it can also conjure up feelings for those of us who have had the same exact feelings.

This: " Girls who have big cocks, love blowjobs, and like to fuck girls hard"

As a young dyke I remember those moments of excitement, fear, pulsing areas, the tightness that came with having an epiphany that that cock slinging girl was going to open up a world of unexhibited sexual escapades, it's like a tall glass of ice cold water on as hot as hell day, it's only satisfies your thirst for a second before the temperature rises again.

That's why it's art in my opinion because it's a different experience for every individual.

:fan: is it hot in here or what!! :sunglass:

Girl is lessss way offensive than...
 

I'm more offended when I see folks online/real time so easily use bitch when referring to Femmes/Women/Feminity then again I'm all about Girl Power!!!

Spice Girls anyone?

I loved it. I thought it was awesome. That some female, femme,lady,woman, whatever you prefer,embraces who I am and isn't embarrassed by my appearance. Isn't trying to soften, my look but saying ,people wouldn't call you sir so often if you would grow your hair out, or maybe if you would wear some womens clothes or even unisex clothes once in awhile. Maybe if you would get your ears pierced. She is saying, she wants that, that's what attracts her, she doesn't just accept it, deal with or tolerate it, she loves it!
Wish I could have known women like that exsisted when I was a teenager.
But then again I'm not one to read into things and pick apart word for word. Something someone wrote, I just take the face value of it, I know what she meant. She may not have used the proper wording, she assumed butch was a cut and dry stereotype . But I know she meant, that is the type she likes.
Since we are on the subject, I will stick my neck on the chopping board here. I was born butch. I have been butch all my life. And even I don't know half the terms or words or titles some people in the community think others should be using. Or terms that others find offensive. I guess it's all relative to the individual.
I'm pretty sure the person who wrote this wasn't trying to offend anyone, just the opposite, she was trying to say this is what I love. And probably if she thought she was offending someone would have worded it to their liking. Butch girl doesn't bother me at all. But that's just me, my opinion.

I like the word bitch. But I don't associate anything particularly negative with it. If you call me a bitch, obviously I intimidate you. That makes me smile. I got quite used to it when one of my best friends and I started calling each other Bitch in college.

"Hey, Bitch, how you doin'?"
"Bitch, you gotta see this!"

I guess you could say we were "taking it back".

She fit the word. She still does. She is competitive as hell, assertive, intimidating, aggressive, and unapologetic. I like those qualities. Long live the Great American Bitch!

More like
 

I meant more as in the ugly animalistic way bitch is used when referring to women.

Bitch in cultural circles as no big deal until it's flung in a derogatory or spit out by a male bodied person attempting to super impose their bullshit on women.

I agree. Like I tell my straight friends, "I can say dyke, you can say lesbian. But nobody, anywhere outside the scientific community, can say homosexual. That shit is offensive."

Those same qualities are revered in a man (esp. in the workplace) and, yet, those women who display such traits are negatively perceived, by some, as a bitch--a way of cutting her down to size, discouraging such traits in other women, and denigrating her achievements.


These qualities are only synonymous with the gendered word bitch when it is a woman who possesses them.

As far as reclamation of words amongst friends, I have no issues there, but it isn't for me.

As a high school teacher, I know how easy it is for some students to label some female teachers as a bitch where they give major kudos to the men who act/teach in a similar manner. Frustrating.

I thought it was hot!! <3

Thank you for finding the complete quote, Kobi. I remember reading that in the Voice when Tristan wrote it. That was nearly 15 years ago, and we were all much younger! This piece was incredibly subversive at the time.

Back then I was more sensitive to any man, gay or straight, who called me or any other woman 'girl'. I corrected them relentlessly because... well I really don't have to bother explaining it. Everyone knows why it was so demeaning coming from a man. It was an especially dangerous word to use on me back in the 1980s when I was struggling so hard to be treated with respect while working as a carpenter/stagehand. Now I really don't care about 'girl' when it's applied to me unless it's thrown down in a way that's designed to infantilise me.

On the other hand, I certainly still get twitchy when anyone who isn't one of us refers to a butch as 'girl'. It seems as if that person isn't seeing the butch for who she is, and that gets me all wound up. It's interesting to re-read this quote now, because at the time I never even noticed the use of 'girl'. I think I must have been too distracted by the erotic content.

I always know when it's time to get a haircut.......people stop calling me sir. :|

I honestly took it as more poetic, creative writing than a statement in which the use of the word "girl" could be offensive. My mind thinks more in terms of the creative than the analytical....I would be far more in tune with something like....

"The heat of the day was oppressive and had driven her to her bedroom. Shrugging off her clothing, she slipped into a sheer pink camisole. “Well so what if it’s the middle of the day, she thought to herself as she went to pull closed the window shade, it’s too hot to wear or do anything else!” She heard hym before she saw hym. The old tractor rumbled as it bumped up the dirt road, throwing up clouds of dust as it went past. She peeked through the lace curtains hoping hy wouldn’t look up and catch her watching hym. Her breath caught as her eyes caressed hys body in the way that she wished that her hands could…… "

than I would had the verbiage been changed to add something about her pussy becoming sopping wet when she saw hym (which I find to be both uncomfortable and arrogant).


and your right....she does write some hot stuff.

I got prickly when I tried to read what that woman wrote.
Something in me screeched to a halt and stopped reading.
So many things just do not fit for butches.
Lword? A show I tried to get excited about.
I saw the pictures of those women and said nope
thats not for you either lol and never watched.
Glamour butch , pretty butch, nope ,not hardly.
I'm fifty and need things to relate to and decided that
story was not for me
somewhere around the second sentence.

Several years back I tried "dating" a (girl) woman
who digs butches but she didn't understand or "get me".
(not a member on this site) She started an event thing
called girl on girl. Um no.
Not only am I so not a girl ,you will never hear me call
anyone that I'm involved with a "girl" or any form of it.
I am also not ok with the term boi or boy in terms of
describing me.
I hated being called a baby butch but way (WAY) back in the
day, I was one.

I prefer the company of women and hope that there are
femmes out there who still prefer the term woman
in describing themselves.
Words are important to me and some have deeper meanings
than others.

(To me) The word woman brings amazing thoughts and feelings,
that girl cant begin to come close to.
The scent of a woman :thud:
When I think woman I think captivating , well seasoned
and capable grown up.
I am very literal in my thinking and that's ok.
Is it an old school thang? Should I blame it on my mother?(f)
Should I change my mentality? nahhh, it's just me.
I respect the word woman in a way I just cant respect girl.
An adult, grown, mature,woman (who is also very much a lady)
sounds like a dream come true (to me.)
There are people who hate the term lady and what that
implies too. To me, it means charming with a bit of demure that
oozes a confident wisdom and subtle sexiness.
Light on the "public" raunch (at least what can be seen..snort)
but worlds away from prudey.
Dare I say classy woman because classy grates
on some people too. My grandmother grew up a migrant worker and
had class for days ( what I speak of , is so not about the money )

different strokes and all that

:coffee: slurpin my coffee with my pinkie out kind of butch :sunglass:

and to me... girl and boi/y are used in an entirely different light... brings to mind eager submissives... (with nothing immature about them)


*le sigh

I think I will be rereading "the boy in the middle" now...

"I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger... Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives... It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them."

If I read that in a personal ad, I would ask her out on a date in a new york minute.

I would like to offer another perspective on this!

Before I read it to my butch, I said: "Just substitute butch for 'girl' when you hear it".

When I first read it, that actually is what I did mentally, instead of focusing on the word "girl" but you could substitute whatever ID or gender or gender-free ID that you prefer.

I absolutely loved it because butches in general and my love in particular; thrill and turn me on and my sweetie’s hair is trimmed so short I can’t even grip it and love it dearly *sigh*. Everything else in this paragraph also describes her to a T:

Butches "with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Butches with shirts that button the other way. Butches that swagger. Butches who have dicks made of flesh and silicone and latex and magic. Butches who get stared at in the ladies' room, butches who shop in the boys department, and butches who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Butches with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives".


(My apologies to Tristan for changing the context of her original article, which was written in 1999. A lot has changed in our knowledge and understanding of gender since that time, too).

:moonstars:

lol... I think she would just 'die' if someone didn't know 'who' she is cause of course she's all that. Anywho... I think she wrote that quote years and years ago before the whole gender identity revolution became so widely accepted within the lesbian or queer community.
She really doesn't know any more than any of us about gender identity, etc.. she just chooses to make it her job and her livelihood. I wouldn't look to her as the source of all knowledge. however, I'm sure the vanilla hetero world finds her quite remarkable, which is good cause she is paving the way towards societal acceptance of 'differences'.

I might "try" dating her for a minute.
Nope, no I wouldnt lol.
I would get an insensitive vibe from her choice of words.
Even 40 years ago (for me) that word was a trigger for all that I am not.
In this tiny paragraph , she says it 11 times.
(To me) that cancels out the good words she chose like swagger and cock.
The disconnect between sir and girl is fucking enormous. helllooooo?

I would think that she does not know the ==>first thing about butches to begin with.

ohhh
so she is talking about butches TO straight people?
it's almost as if the word is used for "shock value"
and this explains that it was , I guess

it still has nothing but sting value for me

but
but
but
werent butches the anti-girls from the beginning of time?
I think so

I'm not butch and it had 'sting' value for me too. so, I can only imagine how you must feel. At the time, I guess it was cutting edge for some... meh.

i know quite a few butches who visit their girl space as well as boy space. One has a deep glorious commanding voice.

We are who we are, but in my experience, there are a lot of butch girls out there, and thank god for them.

I know of plenty of butches who refer to themselves as girl and it has nothing to do with them being submissive. I don't particularly like being called girl but it doesn't sting and I don't consider it an insult unless someone is clearly trying to insult. I also don't like being called lady. I can't stand when men refer to women as girls, but when other women do it it doesn't bother me. I also don't like straight people using the term dyke.

As for the quote, I wasn't offended. I think the author was talking about her own feelings using her own words. I think it was a very butch positive quote and she clearly admires and is attracted to butches.

Confused
 

I don't believe she was educating straight men she was more examining the draw they had towards her girlfriend.. I'll have reread it.