Spouses/Partners of Transmen and transwomen...
 

I know I am not the only wife of a transgendered husband, and I am sure there are other transgendered couples here in the world that started out as lesbian identified...

To my transgender-loving couples, how do you fit in?

Thank you!

I am engaged to a transman. I am still "lesbian identified". My partner does not define my sexuality. He is out as a transman and we live as a queer couple. Sometimes he "passes"'and sometimes he does not. He is a butch and I am a femme. Those are our primary IDs if you will. Sometimes we don't feel part of either the queer or trans community. We are not straight. I have read and had many discussions about that I need to change my sexual orientation to honor my partners gender. I have been told that I am transphobic because I am a lesbian. I'm pretty worn out trying to explain myself.

We fit in with all kinds of people. I have a long heterosexual world history and my partner has lived in the queer community since he was a baby butch. Right now we are both happy to know and love people who represent all sexualities and genders.

How do you fit in?

Great thread Mrs. Arcstriker and welcome to the Planet! :)

it seems like all the recent (well, since i've been a member) threads on this topic have stayed pretty quiet, so i'm glad you started this one! :)

one of my partners is trans and butch. he's primarily attracted to queer femmes. i identify as a queer femme and have since before we met. we've never been "lesbian-identified" as a couple...he identified as a lesbian earlier on in life, i never have, and he was at the beginning of his transition when we first got together. he is still pretty early on as far as medical transition goes, having had to stop and start hormones and not having access to top surgery. we both are pretty involved in queer communities and have friends of all sexualities and genders as well. i would say, like julie, that "butch/femme" is probably the most accurate descriptor of the dynamics of our relationship :) at least as we see it.

Thank you so much for posting this! I think this is a really long discussion, and what I know in my 46 years on this earth is that there is no easy answer to who we are.

I know that I for one was straight until I came out as a lesbian, and then I lived the lesbian life for years and I realized that didn't fit me anymore than straight life fit me...My life didn't make sense until I met my husband 8 years ago...

All this said, I went from straight wife, single lesbian, to married trans-wife over the course of about 13 years...

In most facets of my life I haven't fit anywhere, but recently in my life as the wife of a TG spouse I am getting closer to normal.

You say you are lesbian Identified, and I totally understand this. The hardest part of becoming me was crossing heterosexuality, to my lesbian identity, and then to becoming the wife of a trans-man.

I feel like all my life I've been trying to become me, and in this last phase (and this IS the last phase) I have struggled to be "normal"...

I should add that we live in the Bay Area. There are lot of queers here of all types. That is wonderful and we are blessed to be here. There are two organizations where we have felt fully embraced and loved. One is Butch Voices and the other is Brown Boi. We have attended conferences and events for both of these organizations and really felt at home, loved and embraced. That is a wonderful thing!

I came out as a lesbian and left my whole heterosexual life 5 years ago. I met my partner at a Butch Femme Social dance. That was it for me! It did not matter that he was a transman. My heterosexual world community could handle that I am a lesbian but partnered with a transman!? Too much for people to handle. Oh the the craziness that ensued!

At this point I don't care if other people don't understand me. I am so happy being out and that I have found my partner. Life is good and I am very happy to be here and that there are spaces where we can be ourselves and share that happiness!

Our world is a bit different Julieisafemme...(Can I call you Julie?)

We live in a conservative part of New England so our experience is totally different...oh, and we are old as crap (Arc's 51 and I am pushing 46...) I totally agree with what you say, regarding not caring if people don't understand you. I am just happy to be who we are, and it is obvious that you and your partner are happy with who you are too...

As for the spaces where you can be yourselves, I have to ask, where do you find them? So far we don't have a place of acceptance and that is problematic sometimes.

heh!!! I am 46 too! My partner is older than yours! We are not old as crap. I am a teenager again after coming out!

Yes I know that things are very different in other parts of the country and world. We find the spaces because they are right here where we are. Butch Voices does do events in NYC so you should check them out. Does your husband identify as a butch? Greyson does and for him butch is his gender or a third gender or a combination of both. I know this is not how all people see butch. Just his experience.

Arc is more male id-d though he is also fine with being female. We are not part of any community outside of our regular life and neighborhood.

Thank you for planting the seed of an idea BTW that I am not old as crap! (I may just explore that!)

we are lucky in kansas...i know of quite a few ftm folks here. i'm not sure how much of an organized community there is - there's a big transguy campout planned next year after c. moves here so i guess we'll find out more, and i'm hooked up with a state advocacy/educational organization called kstep. i feel blessed and lucky for the queer and trans communities here.

Spirit...

In my community there is no other couple like us. In the "JC" where we got married years ago, the town clerk bought a 3-ring binder to hold all the marriage licenses for same-sex couples when civil union and later same-sex marriage became legal. Because I am a shitty bookkeeper we actually lost our original marriage license and had to go to town hall to get a copy...and the town clerk pulled the blue binder off the shelf that had only one page in it...You get the rest of the story here. Granted, when same-sex marriage became legal in CT, she still had us in our own special binder. Shame on her for wasting tax-payer dollars on a 2-inch binder when she could have done just as well with a pocket folder.

BUMP!........

My partner and I have been together 10 years. I came out in my late 40's - thinking I might be gay and it took me a few yrs to realise Im not. She has never dated a bio male, rather had 4 LTR's with very butch women, all of whom looked male. She has been wonderful in her support and encouraged me when going through transition. We occasionally do the gay scene, since when we met i was a drag king and performed mostly in gay clubs. However as time went on and being of an older generation, we dont go to clubs as most are frequented by much younger, single people and prefer to go to the theatre, to friends and give dinnerparties etc at home. She doesnt ID as gay and I have made my way through, absolutely loving the butch/femme dynamic, which I still do. We're easy going so we fit it pretty much anywhere. We've never encountered any problems from anyone gay or straight, even when i looked female.

I think the posts here show that every couple has different experiences. The discussion of "passing" is a difficult one for all of us. I put the word in quotations because it is not a word I use or a word I like in relation to my partner and how others view him. The funny thing is how it happens or doesn't on any given day. How do people gender us? Greyson was in a big box store yesterday and had two women helping him at the same time and one called him she and the other he. They seemed to be unaware that they were not in agreement about their perception of his gender. Why or what made one see he and the other see she? Its's hard to know. We have no clue when we go out how we will be seen. Are we a queer couple or straight? There can be multiple variations on the same day in the same area around our home.

We pretty much don't examine it anymore. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to it. I "pass" as a straight woman everyday. That is the femme invisibility. It used to bother me a lot. It bothers me less and less as time goes on. It is hard for me to truly understand how it is for Greyson to have his gender and his sexual orientation up for debate for all who encounter him on a given day.

My hope is that someday people will have the tools to free them from having to make that automatic perception of what or who someone is. That is pie in the sky at this point but I do hope we get there.

Amanda and I both ID as female, though, to my chagrin I can "pass". When we wed, we will both be "wife".

Great Thread!!!
 

we all have a slightly different perspective.

i had always identified as a lesbian before transition, but it never felt quite right on me. i dated many "straight" women, most of which never dated another woman, ever.

once i began to transition, everything made more sense to me, and the past relationships came into focus. i had always been a man, in spirit, if not in form.

when i met my fiance, Gsnap, in 2008, i had been on t for over a year. she is straight, identifies and straight, never been with a woman or even attracted to a woman.
we hit is off right away, and we were friends for almost 2 years (we were both in a relationship at the time)
when our respective relationships fell apart, we started dating. I dated a few other people over the first few months, before i realized that she was all i needed.

people are curious as to how she can identify as straight while she is engaged to a transman, but to question her sexual identity, is to infer that i am not a "man"
as you can imagine, that is offensive to both of us.

Exactly where all my relationships have also been. Thanks for putting that our here. Sometimes I feel I can't vouce these sort of experiences here for several reasons. Glad to see someone walking the same path I have.

I gave to add tho, I never id'ed as lesbian. Nothing against you, just wanted to clarify who I am.

Geez, gotta love auto correct combined with my lack of proof reading. My apologies for the typos in above post.

Hmmm interesting thread and thank you for starting it Mrs Ark. I know this may be hard to grasp for many, but oddly enough I have never analyzed the ID of the “we,” and I’m the sort that analyzes everything…just not this.

When I was younger I had no idea what I was…I just knew I felt like a man within and was attracted to woman. I’ve know this about myself my entire life. My first memory of it coming to the surface was with my family, I was two years of age, when I responded to my grandmother’s comment “when you get married and have children.” My response to her “I’m not having any children and I’m not marring no man.” This memory was confirmed by my mother years later when I came out at the age eighteen.

However, back then the world was different...it was not ok to be me, it was downright dangerous to be in a same sex relationship, never mind to be who I truly was…which was and remains TG. My journey has been hard at times and a very long one at that. I had to try and hide myself for many years...tried to fit and appear somewhat like the world expected me too. But, it never really worked. I was to masculine and felt out of place and people could tell I wasn’t comfortable in my own skin. As I got older…I started to understand myself more and began to allow myself to just be who I am. The more I did this the more I noticed people accepting me for me. I now live as an openly TG individual in my work and in my social life. I do not ID as anything other than that…sometimes I pass and others I do not. Does it rub me the wrong way when someone uses female pronouns? I would be lying if I said no, but I honestly don’t get offended by it either. How can I really… how can I fault them for seeing the form in which I was born?

Although, I have been known to request people to not use pronouns all together, when talking to or about me to others, for example: my secretary when calling on my behalf or speaking of me, uses my name..not a pronoun, for I am not my gender…I am just me.

It is because of this that I have never sat and pondered on the ID of “we”...let the world see it as they will, it does not affect my daily life, because as long as I know who I am and the person I am with knows who she is, it doesn’t matter.

I do respect those who do though. I find the topic very interesting and look forward to following the discussion.

Mrs Arcstiker you are so BEAUTIFUL
 

Mrs Arcstriker and I have had this conversation between ourselves a long time ago...Mrs Arcstriker gets me and I get her. To me that is all that is important. Like some folks here, we id as a butch-femme couple even though its a gray area for us. Yes, I know it offends this community that we pass as a straight couple at times and that tells me a lot our community. I have read the hurtful words and frankly those words have no impact on me. After allthey are just word and people expressing their own insecuritys. You and I are not responsible for that.

Mrs Arcstiker I am so looking forward to our next weekend that we are a lone and together!

You rock MRS ARCSTRIKER! "damn the torpedos, full speed ahead!" We will march to the drum beat we hear.

Smooches Mrs Arcstriker!

Arc-

Let's not label other folks as "expressing insecurities" if they take issue with someone saying something that they feel is homophobic.

This is a Queer site. Verbiage like "happy to not be seen as Queer" is going to get called out pretty much every time.

Thanks!

Medusa...if I recall correctlly...we were politely informed that any conversation between MRS Arcstriker and I.. that we had to take to the trans zone...I am following that advice and now thats wrong too?

Wonderfull! BTW thats your reading way tooo much into what I wrote to Mrs ARcstrker. It s again projection.


Thank you...I will take it upon as advisement.

Smooches back at you husband! I know what you meant, and the sentiment was not lost on me...

That said...
Medusa, I also get where you are coming from. I've been on many sides of this fence and I know too well that gender ID is a slippery slope. It seems that Arc and I have managed to tromp on both sides of this debate enough to mostly piss almost everybody off, and I can speak for both me and my husband when I say this was never the intent. If any of you can read anything from this, do know that it is really hard for us to fit just about anywhere.

Back to Arc...Is it Friday yet? I love you dearly, and I cannot wait to vex an entire straight honeymoon resort!

Come on out now!
 

And dear God, Medusa, did you just imply that Arcstriker stated he was "happy to not be seen as queer"?! I would hope that you have the guts to either point to the exact post, or to admit you misqouted him.

Please, point to the post where you point, in quotations what Arcstriker said, and then I will respond accordingly.

Arc-

The conversations between you and the Mrs. can be held in the privacy of your own home where nobody can say shit to you about anything offensive OR they can be held here where you open yourself up to commentary from the folks on this Queer site.

I'm not sure if you are meaning to be rude but saying things like people are projecting "insecurities" and then telling me that I'm "projecting" when moderating you is not only rude but unwise.

I know that Mrs. Arc had talked about having a hard time fitting in with Queer spaces and I certainly get that. Jackhammer and I have encountered difficulty sometimes as well.

I would ask you to consider that part of fitting in is making a concerted effort to be respectful of the space you're in. You are not only in a Queer space but in a community space. Part of the effort of this community is that folks have worked really hard to learn about each other's identities and way of living. That has only happened when folks have given respect to one another's differences, cut out the judgment, and laid down defenses.

Thanks!

Ok. Here is what we are NOT going to do.

We are NOT going to spend hours going back and forth in a hysterical diatribe.

We are NOT going to take this thread down to shitty city the way the other thread did.

My suggestion to both of you is that you move along immediately.

That is fine. And MY Suggestion is that you be a genuine person and you point out where Arcsriker said what you quoted. Can you do that for me? I am betting that you cannot because you misquoted my husband.

Mrs Arcstriker, stepping to an Admin or Moderator is not and will not be tolerated by any member of the Planet. You have been asked multiple times to move on. You did not. You instead felt the need to continue being rude and disrespectful. Therefore, you have earned yourself a 30 day Time Out.

During this time, you are not to access this site, our Facebook page, or the personal spaces of the Admins and Mods.

Arcstriker and anyone else, I strongly suggest that we all get back to the original topic of this thread. Or the outcome will be the same for you.

Thank you,
Malcolm (Moderator)

I was so happy to see this topic come up. What so many of you have said sounds so familiar. My life with Dixon has many parallels, and he is forever encouraging me to get to know some other partners of FTMs. He's the social one . . .
I'm disappointed this has devolved into drama.

GeorgiaMa'am

My husband was always attracted to women and so identified himself as a lesbian for most of his emerging sexuality. Yet he never really identified with the gay community, never really felt like a lesbian and found most of his girlfriends were 'queer' rather than gay. It eventually made sense to him when one of his many gf's introduced him to the concept of 'Trans'. From then he transitioned immediately, being lucky enough to be in an area which was quite supportive (the amount of support you get in the UK depends on where you live really). He imagined he'd live as a man, find a nice straight or queer girlfriend and live happily ever after, possibly with a picket fence.

Instead he got me. A 5 on the Kinsey scale, very interested in gay politics, every single one of my friends were gay, a big chunk of my identity was gay and no desire to let go of my Lesbian Card for anyone, not easily anyhow.

3 years on we're still together, still in love and have the wedding certificate to prove it. I've stopped going clubbing, he's friended all of my friends and socially I'm now prepared to lie and call myself bisexual (but only in straight environments). I do miss being visibly gay and he does sometimes miss being part of a community, but we're both so much happier these days, despite our losses :D

Quoting myself to clarify something:

I don't want to let it stand that I "misquoted" something purposely and that someone was "banned for calling it out".

First, I was much less concerned about the "happy to not be seen Queer" part than I was about the idea that people were acting on "insecurities" for calling out homophobia on a Queer site. That felt like intentional disrespect and dragging drama from one thread to another.

When I used the statement "verbiage like happy to not be seen as Queer" I was paraphrasing the original discussion that arose from:

Originally Posted by Mrs Arcstriker
Well aren't you a busy little bee Mr Arcstriker! I keep forgetting you went to a women's college and I find that peculiar. You must have fooled the interviewers!

That said, I love that you pass, and I love that I forget that we aren't a straight couple. Yin to my yang...

Part of that discussion were folks talking pretty thoughtfully about how it felt to hear a phrase like that on a Queer site. (i.e. that "straight" shouldn't be held up as the gold standard on a Queer site). My paraphrase.

My original request was about not labeling folks and dragging drama from one thread to the other. My concern was that we all respect each other and I tried to provide a guideline as to what that would look like.

Instead of focusing on the request to leave the labeling and drama out, Mrs. Arc chose to make an issue out of "being misquoted" and then proceeded with rudeness.

Rather than move along as I requested, Mrs. Arc then chose to escalate publicly.

She was then put on a time-out for drama and rudeness. This was her first time-out since joining the site 5 weeks ago but the Mods have dealt with probably 15 reports concerning various posts she has made since that time. I illustrate this for the sake of demonstrating how much work has gone into keeping the space open to her.

After she was timed-out for 30 days, Mrs. Arc then logged into Mr. Arc's account and proceeded to send several messages under his name to us which earned her a permanent ban.

Needless to say, we are done with the drama.

I wanted to provide this clarification in hopes that folks understand it was not ever my intention to misquote anyone. My intention was to moderate the "insecurities" part of the offending post and move the conversation along.

It is unfortunate that the issue was escalated to the point that someone felt they had to break the TOS in order to have the last word.


Thanks,
Medusa/Admin

hugs
:gimmehug:
you are gonna get one in person soon!

Interesting topic. I am in a relationship with a transman (a relatively new relationship, we started talking in June). I have an ex that transitioned after we split but this whole thing is new to me.

The man I am dating was never butch. In fact, he was never really even queer except for a couple of months early in the transition. He thought he was a gay man because he was attracted to men before he transitioned (and he lived as a very feminine female). His orientation changed while taking T. From what I have heard this is sort of common in either direction.

Basically he went from being a heterosexual female to being a heterosexual male, with the exception of a few months.

Where do we fit in? Fuck if I know. I know I am queer. He feels that by just being trans there is something queer about that as well. I guess I don't really think about where we fit in very much except when I come to this site. We have our friends that we have had since before we got together and none of them seem to care and just want both of us to be happy. It doesn't bother either of us if people think we are a heterosexual couple, and I think to him we are but maybe with a bit of a twist. I don't get too concerned how other people perceive my relationship. All I know is it's making me extremely happy.