Butches who don't bind
 

Binding was mentioned in my "non-packing" thread. So I thought I'd ask about it. I don't, mostly because I have nothing to bind. (my muscles made my boobs disappear)

I don't bind. Mine are not that big now. They used to be quite large and I hated them but never did the binding thing. Nothing wrong with doing it, it just wasn't something I chose to do.

I had a reduction several years ago and I am much happier and don't mind showing them now. :sunglass:

I wear a spandex compresion shirt,I get them at wall mart or acadamy sports store.They cost around$13.00 more or less,they need to be snug enough to hold what you have without hindering you breathing,the body comes to my waist but I cut it short enough to be a half shirt.What works well is if you have a waist ban snug enough to hold the body down if its not croped short.Not long ago I found they were selling spandex suport shorts,I bought a couple of pair t try it out and have found when its a snug fit without being to tight I get good abb and low back suport.Warning these tend to tighten as the day goes on(the pants) so good fit is a must...cutting the blood cicculation off is a nono.I dont think these shirts will do much for someone that is heavy chested but i'm not so it works.Plus they come in several colors.

If you were big chested, would you bind?

Martina-Good question! :D It's the unaswerable question.

So basically, you just happen not to bind. The title of the thread is "Butches who don't bind." You said you thought you'd ask about it. What do you want to know? Are you just interested in what people do in general or specifically in the decisions made by butches who don't bind? I assume the latter given your topic. If so, what about that decision interests you, given that you don't have to make it?

Also, pointing out that you don't have to bind because you are muscley is asserting a certain privilege. But maybe you knew that.

What Martina said.

I don't bind.

Not that I haven't thought of it. I actually I have wanted to bind in the past and periodically in the present but first and foremost, I can't stand feeling constricted by clothing! I purposefully stretch shirts that feel snug in any way or buy a size bigger for the comfort of feeling loose and free. I just don't like bras and really don't like sports bras either, so I'm in a "bind" so to speak... (play on words). ;)

I guess there are times I want my chest flattened but then again, for the most part, it's okay that it's there. I know if I lost some weight and did some lifting they would drop in size and tone up and I would be very content with that.

I do appreciate that my girl doesn't mind that I don't bind.... and is also okay if I chose to. It is however a part of the physical feminine in me that I am most accepting of. And I have mentioned to my mom, who is a breast cancer survivor for over 5 years, that if it was possible to give a breast transplant to survivors that matched with me, I would gladly give them up, otherwise I guess they're hanging around till the day I die... (another play on words) :D

Curious in Albuquerque
 

Are you writing a book!? You ask some deep questions!!!

Do any of the butches you know bind? Does Amanda have an opinion about it if you choose to? Have you thought about or tried binding?

My personal preferance is to not bind....when all is said and done - I'm female and appreciate what I have to offer...my girls are my girls.... :D

I have wondered the same thing!! Of course I have also wondered if Steph is doing some sort of MIT research/thesis for that next degree... Hmmmm are ya?
I like the questions... It's brought new perspective to the place and has created conversation and community interaction. Just curious though....

Know what I'm really not getting here Steph?

You said somewhere else I believe something to the effect of ''to my annoyance/whatever'' I pass. Yet according to what you write, everything about you speaks to your wanting to look super duper masculine. You don't shave your body hair. You were masculine clothing. You work out to the point where your 'boobs' have disappeared (which, unless you were more or less flat to begin with, I find amazing since even the world's best female bodybuilders still have what appear to be breasts).


So my question is, is there any step you've taken to help folks realize you're female, thereby doing away with any confusion? Not saying you should have to...simply wondering why, if passing is so annoying for you, you might not have.

Words

Things that make you go hmmm..
 

Well that's what I thought, but steph said she's not had any gender studies classes. The topics are definitely loaded and not only has good convos happened but damn some ugly shits been said as well all in the name of opinion.

I'm curious as to how stephs real time experiences with butches are.

I find it interesting to be asking such intense questions of the community if not for curiosity of her own accord or for information gathering.... I would like to think that if these questions and answers are being used for anything other than her own personal curiosity and questioning within herself, that Steph has enough integrity and professional ethics to give fair knowledge to those of us participating. Not saying this is the case... but I won't say it hasn't crossed my mind. Exploitation is a serious offense...

Hmmm
 

I guess if it feels creepy deep down I'd not engage with steph. It's a bit obvious she likes hot topics and that her wording is either a thought out process or she has issues knowing how to post or what verbiage to use(though it's hard to believe considering the MIT background)

If she's using this community as guinea pigs I hope she's got permission from folks before doing so. Reality is that we'll never really know cause computer screens hide a lottttt, for all we know she's a doctor or somethin'..

:|<-- only plays a doctor during consensual scenes

Funny I don't see these threads she has started as a place for conversation or community interaction. I see them as space that has been created for people to freely say some pretty judgmental opinions about what doesn't work for them instead of just focusing on what does work for them personally.

Binding is hard on the body, and done long term can cause permanent damage. If somebody doesn't have to do it then don't and be happy for it.

Official research doesn't bother me as much as the thought of someone getting their jollies by asking questions that bear no relevance whatsoever to their life/their experience. Sorry steph, but this is a bit like me coming in and asking whether big breasted femmes have trouble finding extra large bras when I'm a modest 36B and have no desire to increase my bust size.

I'm really not trying to silence you and I'm trying to be as tactful as possible but in your enthusiasm to facilitate conversation, do you not ever stop to think about the way in which your question will be perceived?

Words

I understand what you are saying... and maybe I should have elaborated more clearly by saying that, the conversation whether good or bad has brought new perspective "to me." I have learned from the interactions within the community and I have found that through this experience there are areas that I will be more cautious of speaking out on and more aware of others' wording. I will openly admit that I am gullible at times and willing to give others the benefit of the doubt... and I absolutely agree with you on the "judgmental opinions" instead of "just focusing on what does work for them personally."

You elaborated fine. I was just borrowing your words for a jumping off point. Just the way this thread is titled, to me, creates a negative space and I am not sure why. Maybe because it seems clinical or maybe because, to me, I have never had a negative encounter in a group of peers when we have discussed what we do, to take care of what we all have, in all our own personal ways...until here/online. In all my bowling leagues, softball teams, soccer teams, social, and business networking encounters have I felt such a need to separate, as I do here/online. It is usually just good healthy fun followed by some more drink/food and fun.

Again I agree. This is why I said - I have learned from the interactions within the community and I have found that through this experience there are areas that I will be more cautious of speaking out on and more aware of others' wording. It has brought more awaeness and a level of feeling defensive/protective... And I too have that "need to separate" feeling deep down inside. I don't like it...

And yes, it does have a "clinical feel" to the threads

I'm curious as to how stephs real time experiences in journalism may be coming along. What a great research pool. :cigar2:

are we not readng between the lines and titles? We should.

I feel like Words does here. THere has been precious little sharing on Steph's part, but a lot of us have ponied up some intense things (that's on us).

I am assuming some naivete on her part. For one thing, she does not know the divisions in our community that some of these topics bring up.

Weatherboi's post rang true for me that some of the topics are worded in a way to get woman ID'd folks to bring up some stuff that is potentially divisive. That's fine if it's a thread started out of a need from part of a community. If it's just curiousity, and that curiosity is not naive, then yuck. If it is naive, I guess it's on us not to wander in and expose our souls. I certainly did on one thread.

Sorry if I'm upsetting everybody! NOT my intention. I'm not writing a book. I guess I'll just keep things to myself from now on.

Don't be sad
 

I don't mind your threads.. I'm truly interested about how you and your buds discuss and feel about butch issues!

OK I get some people don't believe certain things to be true, but I personally don't get why people are so offended by her threads- the content and subject matter. To me they are reasonable questions that I think many young butches and butches new to online would ask. Some of the reactions make me feel unwelcome.

I would suggest reading more. The tiger cup energy is great, but periodically cubs get roared at.

We are a lot older than you here. There is a history here. And you can definitely offend some folks' sensibilities. If you'd rather blunder through and get yelled at periodically, then that's your risk. Personally, I took a while to get the lay of the land.

My questions
 

How do you discuss this in your circle of peeps, I'll be honest the only time I've known about butches binding is here online, most if not all the butches I know don't.

I don't know stephfromMIT, so I can't speak to her intentions but reading the first post it seems as though she's stated the question, the rationale for asking it and her experience in the first sentence: binding came up in another thread, let's talk about it, and she goes on to say that she does not bind and why.

I don't know that anyone has the right to expect she should be baring her soul on this topic or any other. She expressed her experience and opened up a conversation.

AND like weatherboi, I have read the titles of the past two threads about butches who do not bind, or pack and I, too, have cringed.

My first reaction was "oh christ, here we go" :| And when I step back and examine my reaction objectively I know I cringe and roll my eyes because I (like most of us who have been around here and b-f.) know what kind of ugly butch- butcher- butchest nonsense is likely to rear its nasty head. Because, I, like many of you, know historically that divisiveness and negativity reign when these topics are raised.

I don't know if stephfromMIT knows that or not. I don't know if she's been around long enough to have witnessed it. I don't know if her intention was to stir the pot. AND Nor do you (general you).

The conjecture regarding her intentions and veracity, the assumption she's stirring a pot IS in and of itself - pot stirring.

If the intention of the OP isn't clear - ask a direct question.

I actually think reading between the lines on a public forum is a dodgy business, i think it leads to all sorts of miscommunication and reaction. And I think we've come to that conclusion 8 gazillion and 1 times.

I believe in clear, concise and direct communication - not presumption.

And if your hackles go up, if you've got a bad feeling, if you have read between the lines and don't like what you've seen - leave it be, ignore the thread, don't participate, block the OP or the posters if you feel really strongly. Because conjecture is not fact. And the invisible intent found between the lines is not a reliable source.

If a conversation becomes ugly and negative it is solely the responsibility of the people who contribute to it. We bring our stuff to each thread we engage in, we are responsible for it. Not the OP. Not the person who said something that offended me/you/him/her. Not the site owners. Or the moderators who did or didn't intervene. Not the poster's partner. Or his ex girlfriends 'cats' foster mom. :P

We are responsible for ourselves and our words.

I agree that it is usually best to focus on what we do rather than what we don't do. Sometimes, though, it turns into some good discussion. On the discussion of non-packing, many butches have been told or made to feel they are less than if they don't pack. When there is discussion about it, it is clear many butches do not. I do think it is far overstated online in terms of packing being the norm for butches. There is also nothing wrong with those that do pack. Either way is fine.

No one should divulge personal stuff they aren't comfortable with, no matter who the OP is. This is a public forum.

Great post Sparkle!

I think we can all agree with much of your post, Sparkle.

I posted something inflammatory this morning and then deleted it because I did not wish to, as you say, stir the pot.

In my eyes there are WAY too many inconsistencies in Steph's posts. Some of them are glaring and others are easy to miss unless you are looking for them.

The thing that bothers me is that I, personally, have asked several times for what I consider to be simple clarifications, and have never received solid answers. Finally, I sent the OP a private message and received what I perceived to be a very juvenile, flippant and disrespectful response. My dad graduated from MIT...I feel like I have a legitimate interest. :)

Steph, you have started some fabulously inquisitive threads and if your intentions are not malicious, then I will be the first to apologize. But right now I question your intentions and quite frankly, I feel a little unsafe having you here. I don't like feeling this way, which is why I came to you personally for clarification.

I for one LOVE new community members and try to roll out the red carpet for all. But I am having trouble here and I feel like there is the potential for hurt when members are being told possible untruths. Especially when it comes to very personal issues like identity and spaces within our hearts.

Novela-What was wrong with my response to your PM? Sorry to all if I've been lax in answering for myself the questions I ask. I've new to this community, and would hope I'd receive the benefit of the doubt. Since it seems that is not forthcoming, I feel it's best for all if I leave you.

I'll play Juliet!!!
 

Ahem,

Sweet, so would I,
Yet I should kill thee with much cherishing.
Good night, good night! Parting is such sweet sorrow,
That I shall say good night till it be morrow








no one's gonna chase you steph, ya may as well stay and continue to come up with extremely popular threads.

as for as binding goes, ...

i have binded. but mostly for medical reasons. i'm still dealing with those reasons. i had binded some before the surgery (heart). not much. i've never discussed binding, not on a forum. i don't like large breasts, not on me. so i do it to keep it all still LOL. just to be honest. no other reason. lots of women do it that are involved in sports, say the compression shirt. ever watch the wnba, ... o they are doing some binding. but all of those women are not butches.

steph, if your threads do nothing else, they get people thinking.

Often, that is not popular. It makes people uncomfortable, sometimes, to have to look at, examine, or even acknowledge that other's can, quite possibly have, idea's, ideal's and beliefs that so differ from our own. lol

What you've brought to this community... while many don't like it, is thought. You make us think. You make us examine. You make us angry sometimes. You raise our hackles sometimes. But in doing that.. you challenge the status quote, you challenge perception and you challenege our own thoughts and thought processes.

If I did not feel safe with you in this community, I would stay off of your threads. I would block your posts. I would not engage. I would not enter into a lion's den, just in order to let the lion know that I feel unsafe in their den.

Ask away. Post your threads. Keep raising our hackles, because damn it, without someone to churn the waters, the pool would get pretty damned stagnant!

BTW, I don't care who you, where you come you from, who your daddy is, or what you look like. Why? Because, right now, you are a name on a screen. You are more than likely never going to be in my IRL circle of friends or family. Not because I would not include you, but because, realistically, it's just not going to happen.

I do my best to be blatantly honest about who I am. However, there are aspects of me that I would NEVER divulge to an online community, because, frankly, it's not anyone's business but those who are around me, IRL.

So, in closing, steph... I don't care if anything you post about your personal self here, is truth, or not. I appreciate what you bring to these boards and I hope you don't leave. It's not your muscles, your education or occupation, OR lack thereof, that makes me THINK, it's your words.

Take care.