The Gendering of the Young
 

I'm not sure if anybody has seen this vid or if it's already been posted elsewhere, but basically it's a kid who is really enjoying Beyonce's "All the Single Ladies" until his father tells him he's not one.

The gendering of children - even newborn (well even prenatal) babies - is so common and expected. How do you feel about it? Do you participate in it? Do you work to counteract it?

In our household we try to counteract,,,,,:wateringgarden:

Yes, in my life, counteract.

In the father's, defense though, I think that his unconscious response is not unlike most peoples due to what we internalized growing up about gender. He seemed to immediately realize his mistake when he saw his child's face drop, and seemed to feel genuinely bad about it.

But yes, I agree that it is a big issue in our society and I think that it is a great thread topic. :)

Awwww....what a cute little boy! Looks like he's not a big fan of sexism. Dad had a little feminist epiphany tho. Too cute.

I once dated a woman (butch) who had two daughters and a son. Her dream was to see her son grow up to be a football player, but it was obvious that he wanted to be more the cheerleader, lol. She would always correct him and say things like "boys aren't cheerleaders" ... and I often found myself correcting her and REMINDING her of how it felt to be gender pressed.

I didn't grow up in a gender defined household. I always said that if I ever had children, they would benefit from the same upbringing.

Hello, lovely. Great thread, as per usual.

When I knew I was pregnant, I picked a name that I knew I would use for a child no matter the sex. It's a word that has meaning and is used in daily language. I'd not heard this word used for a name before. But sure enough, my family members made certain to tell me that they were glad that my child had been born a girl, because what child could be a boy and be called this (very non-gender-specific) name? They were already gendering a word. (I've since learned of a child my daughter's age who shares her name and is a boy.)

I'd also decided that her clothes and toys would be as non-gender-specific as possible. That was a battle that I would have difficulty fighting. Although I stayed home with her for the first year, and she was sent to a very liberal and intentionally diverse nursery and primary school (socio-economic/religious/same-sex parents, etc.), and although I did not expose her to TV or other mainstream media for many years, what I think of as Pink Fairy Barbie Princess Ideology had gotten in. She wanted to be one. She WAS one.

She had the innate ability to create feathered dresses out of paper crafts. Wands out of sticks and glitter. The child was going to be Cinderella goddammit and she did not want to play with the trucks and tools I also supplied her. No way, man. Not happenin'.

I allowed her to be her own someone.

I can't know, and I think none of us can, how much socialization and conditioning work to manufacture and engineer what we think of as the gender norm, and how much of what I consider feminine or masculine arises from the human form naturally, as a matter of course and purpose and biological development. I simply cannot know the degrees. But I do know that if I hadn't finally broken down and bought that kid a Barbie (against my political preference) she would have never forgiven me.

I did NOT cave to the Bratz doll though. No way, man. No fuckin' way.

My child finally did get a Bratz doll from her father. She played with it maybe one or two times and was over it.

My daughter liked boy things when she was little. Her first big girl panties were boys briefs with Thomas the Tank Engine on them. That is what she wanted. Now she likes sparkly pink stuff. I like girl stuff. Is it beacuse I was socialized that way? Maybe. Maybe not. You are exactly right in that it is hard to know what makes up gender.

Ha! I love her undies! Today, mine is thirteen and wears boxer briefs on occasion. I don't think it's a masculine gesture however. (I think she thinks it's sexy. Kill me.)

P.S. I told my wee one she could have Bratz when they started making an action figure (read: doll) for boys called Jerkz or Idiotz, but not a minute before. ;)

I always knew that i was loved by both my parents,but they were raised old school.My father is 81 this month and he alway told me that i could never be like him,which confused me because i'm just like him in many ways.But I suspect he was talking about me physically.My parents didn't care much that I was a tomboy,although i do remember once or twice my mother putting a dress on me,come to think of it it was probably only once,the other time must of been a bad nightmare.I played like a little boy(whatever that means) even though I knew that I was not one.I had two brothers that taught me the ways of being a guy,not that they were both experts themselves.The males in my family are sexist,you know the types,they believe men should look like men,women should look like women.Stuff like that only= insecurity in my book.But at a very young age I knew who I was and I never faught it,I just faught others who insisted that I look more 'womanly'.I was not like any 'normal looking girls' in this family/society,and I took pride in that.Yet still today I fight for who I am,I won't change for anyone,that includes my politics/beliefs/ect.Being a butch woman is a challenge in this world,but I like it.

:darthsmiley:

My mom kinda dressed me butch. She's not super-girly and she didn't inflict supergirly things on me. When she was a little girl, she wanted to be an architect or an archeologist. She was interested in castles - how they were constructed and why. She built little houses for her dolls and then she was done playing with them.

I had a fascination with the barbie stuff. I loved my barbies - loved playing barbies with other girls. I also loved my troll dolls - they were great to play with. I think it was good to have flat-chested, pot-bellied, short, squat, wild-haired, by-no-means-pretty dolls to play with. I made them clothes, I took them outside with me and made homes out of twigs and leaves. I gave them whimsical names. I guess the trolls are what taught me that if you love something or someone enough, you find them beautiful.

I remember when I got to go next door and play with the neighbor boy. He had neat toys. They did things. Transformers, cars, the castle grayskull, games like mousetrap. I remember realizing that there was a difference there and that I didn't know how I ended up with only girl toys. I don't think it was my mom's choice though as much as it was the choice of gift-givers and hand-me-downers. My mom couldn't afford to buy me much.

I have always thought I would name my child a gender-neutral name, though the one I always wanted to name my kid has gotten very popular of late. I think that whatever the deconstructionalists would like to believe about gender, I think people are born with a certain sense of who they are. It may be influenced quite a lot from the external environment, but I think kids know what grates on them gender-wise as much as they know whether or not they like broccolli.

When I was a little kid - ever since I watched the movie Splash, I suppose - I mostly wanted to be a mermaid. To be wild, to have impossibly long hair, to breath under water, to live in the ocean and be magical. I may still want that. That bit of me that's a boy - I think he wants it too.

I have participated in the gendering of the young - at least so far as I've bought girl stuff for baby showers for girls. I don't think I'd do that now though. Kids are so unexpected in their preferences sometimes - it's neat to see without interfering too much. My mom had this whole peter rabbit thing going on with my babyhood - she really did try to avoid gendering me. It was the 70s and all. I still am surprised she doesn't consider herself to be a feminist.

I saw this thread and was reminded of growing up and being larger than my other brothers and sisters and how that translated to my Mom and step-parents as "She's bigger, she can do "boys" work".

One distinct memory I have is that my Step-Dad owned a used car lot and body shop and he would make me come down to his shop every Saturday morning when I was 8 or 9 and pick up tools, move car parts, stack boxes, etc. He would also make me stack concrete blocks, clean out the horse pens, and bale hay.

I once asked my Mom why I had to help in the garage and work in the barn when my sister didnt have to. Her answer was, "Because your bigger and she's more frilly."

More "frilly" meant "she was a waif and I was a chubster".

Later, this translated into me being seen as "a tomboy", where my sister was a "princess", even though I was asking for the same red Reeboks and miniskirts (It was the 80s!)

Anyone else experience anything like this with size and gender conformity as a child? I know some of us have talked about being adults who are fat and how we are often seen as less feminine because of our size by the outside world.

Great discussion Nat!

Oh my god, that was so inappropriate. I actually started crying because it -upset- me to see little children doing that. :(

Right???
The sad thing is that they are SOOOOOOO talented! But the whole Jon Benet Ramsey thing just killed it.
:(

I showed this version to my son....he loves dancing to Beyonce (and Janet Jackson). :)