Oh, I still assert that online/distance dating is extremely problematic and not a good idea. I'm familiar with FaceTime and Skype though I've not used them. As much as they may seem to provide insight they come no where close to the insight/intimacy gained from the physical presence of the person.

Another ... major issue... not yet mentioned is logistics. Two people feel they've hit it off and are perfect for one another! So... who's going to give up they're current life/location and move? Give up their home, if they own, give up their job, if they were working on a career there and give up friends... and family... if they still live in their home town. <-- that's a hell of a lot for one person to give up on a hell of a lot less insight/intimacy that comes from being in the person's presence. :blink:

Knight, It isn't clear to me what you mean by this. What experiences have you had that led you to feeling that dating is considered ugly?

I agree. There are so many logistics involved. I am someone who has a lot of flexibility in being able to move, since I am a freelance writer, have no children, etc. But when I have moved for someone and it hasn't worked out, not only is there serious heartache but I can't even begin to tell you how wrung out it has made me feel and stretched to the utmost limits, not to mention having to either relocate or stay in an area that I moved to be with someone. It is severely emotionally damaging. And most people do not have the flexibility that I do. They do have jobs in a fixed location, children and family where they live and a host of other issues.

Also, I do agree that Skype and Facetime and other mediums that we have these days are tremendously helpful in getting to know someone, but that there is still no substitute for real world living - when the bills have to be paid, meals prepared, when the dog gets sick, the refrigerator breaks, your partner's kids are acting up, etc.

And yet I am in an LDR now.

My own experiences dating someone I met online have been negative. I met two women that way and I doubt I'll try it again. it's easy for a person to present the best of themselves when they sit down to write or speak on the phone, (or Skype or FaceTime), and my usual tools to sniff out a liar or someone who is flat out nuts, for example, aren't deployable until I've already established a connection. At that point the connection, especially when there's already been sexy talk and deep conversation, easily overwhelms my voice of reason. I'm far better able to sense danger in person.

Both of the above failed relationships were with extraordinarily handsome and photogenic butch women who wrote well. Those qualities made them even more attractive online and further disabled my 'sniffer'. I like this community for many reasons. One of the biggest draws for me is that being a stonefemme here is an accepted and an acceptable identity. I'm pretty isolated outside of this little bubble. Even though it would save me plenty of time as well as a world of humiliation and rejection, I doubt I'll put myself out there online again.

I think the scariest thing though is trusting the face one puts on in public when sometimes there is a completely different side hiding offline. Like Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. Unfortunately I think in most cases it comes down to trying to spend as much time in person in order to see the full truth that is there that no one else sees. Apprently its really easy to put on a good act for the public eye. I think its always a risk. Especially for those of us who see the good in people and use that to trust they will be sane and healthy too easily. And some of us have to learn the hard way, even in offline dating.

I think what was meant was that sometimes the status of dating - just to feel things out & see how it goes with time - is looked down upon because some people want to skip into the full on relationship expecting everything to be etched in stone from the start. That is unrealistic, in my opinion, and I feel anyone in their right mind would want the chance to let time reveal if its something they really want. Just dating at first can provide that opportunity. And sometimes even after we think we are have it figured out, we can still realize we made a mistake and choose to either stay or move on. Regardless of anything, only time tells. Words arent everything, time and the various situations life presents are.

PD
 

I no longer date online, period. Discovered that many PD (Personality Disordered) folks basically make online dating, etc their "hunting grounds". As a consequence of my experience with a femme narcissist I dove deeply into my healing from it. And began researching people with personality disorders for several years and now work with people who have also survived these abusive and dangerous people/relationships.

Online dating? No way.

Greco

Yeah online dating has definitely bitten me in the ass too, but I keep the faith.

Speaking of trails, some of us do have a very long history in the online BF community and I really think it would be difficult for some of us old timers to be fine upstanding online community members and then be monsters offline. I guess anything's possible.

I've been on this and the previous butch femme site for over 15 years now and dated/lived with several femmes and been to reunions and lived in the same city as a number of different community members, have several thousand posts people can read, etc. so I think it would be really difficult for me to hide some monster side of myself or have some strange mental illness that I somehow cleverly disguise. And many other members have long histories too. However, meeting people online is definitely not everyone's cup of tea. I'm not available for dating anyway, but anyone can check my history anytime.

So yeah, follow the patterns - the overall patterns - of someone.

You make a valid, if not startling, point. :blink:

IF someone did have a PD ... or frankly ... was just an unpleasant person... and found themselves unsuccessful in real life, (friends, lovers and such) ... the internet is a place where they can learn/practice masking their issues. Or masking them sufficiently to have some kind of social life.

This is not to suggest that a good number of people who socialize online have issues! It simply means that the the internet gives them a better cover and makes it much more difficult for others to get the best "read" on them.

Questions...

What part has missing... or, let's be honest ignoring... red flags played in anyone's online dating?

Dating is often the first step we take when we're attracted to someone and want to learn and experience more of them. But... we enter a very tricky place with someone once we "officially" start dating and/or call us getting together a date. Does the getting to know someone require a "date?" Why not get to know someone and then say, if only to yourself... I want to date this person!

There are definitely plenty of these types. How many more times is Jake Tulane going to come back under a different screen name?

They usually don't have much real life contact with anyone. Although it also true that there are plenty of honest members who haven't either.

True and very likely for most people online. However, we can't leave out or discount that no matter how well (accurately) we present ourselves online we are still subject to another person's perception.

And... even if we present ourselves accurately and are perceived accurately that does not equate to a successful / compatible long-term relationship.

I couldn't have said it better myself. And some people do have interesting perceptions to say the least. When someone has some strange opinion of me that no one else has I consider it an outlier - to put it politely.

I won't do online dating anymore at all, these days I prefer face to face, etc.

If I have met someone from online and we meet face to face, etc maybe but if its strictly linked to a forum, etc then no.

Even with skype and all, I still don't trust people much these days.

I want to clarify that when I post of online dating, I am talking specific dating sites such as Match.Com; not forum sites or other online sites, where making casual friends or acquaintances may be the goal, rather than meeting a potential partner.

When I specifically date from an online dating site and state that I only date locally, all of my dates were first at a local Starbucks or Peets for coffee (and even meeting for coffee is a casual date).

After that, one or both of us would decide if we wanted to meet again or just agree there was no chemistry to pursue something.

Online "dating" can mean different things to different people.

I think one leads to the other.

Having been in this boat, if a couple is at that point, the one who is more flexible in terms of employment/lifestyle/etc usually is the one to move or else both will move to a neutral location together.

Most of the time, this decision isn't made lightly and there's a lot of conversation and thought put into it. It's not like someone is saying "I love you" and "I want to live with you" after only two days/dates/visits. Sure, there are some folks who click right away or others who fall into the sucker category (been there....don't recommend it!) who will move faster than others but most folks take their time with this momentous of a decision. It's going to affect the direction of their lives going forward and change everything.

First, there's a bad apple in every barrel and also, there are people with some serious psychological issues sitting right next to you at work right now and you've not a clue. That's the nature of these conditions. The people who have them are experts at hiding the things that would stick out to the rest of the population.

Both of your dating versions could work. Each couple's relationship is individual and unique. As long as people are happy and healthy and treat one another well, I say do the damn thing.

wait a minute:blink:what exactly is online dating now?? When the net was much younger we were much like an extended family and people (online) seemed to truly care-femmes who were traveling to meet lovers could depend on the butch brotherhood to help with glitches, problems etc-femmes were saved in sticky circumstances...it's not like that now...maybe it's a little meaner (so to speak) and way more impersonal...it's a shame really-

kittygrrl, I guess it all depends on how well connected people are. I think it still exists in some circumstances. I know several years ago when I was going to meet a femme for the first time and she was traveling to see me in my home town, a femme invited us to dinner and also let my girl know that I would be good to her but if she ever needed anything to just let her know especially since she was traveling so far from home. I thought it was a very nice gesture. It is nice to feel you are part of a wider social circle and family so to speak.

I'm all for dating sites (and even forums)! I think those are fine for better locating likeminded individuals... who are local. ;)

Could work out ... certainly! Anything IS possible. :)

Work out equally as often as relationships started in real life / face to face ... nope.