|
Stories from WW2
I have been exchanging stories with Itty that have been told to me by Rosie's step father, a gunner in WW2. Now he is 82 yo. Stories about Normandy, the museum in New Orleans, what happened in the pow camps, getting out of the boat and heading to Ohama Beach, and so on. :army: I was thinking that so many of us having elderly parents, and relatives, it would be a good idea to share some of their memories here. Namaste, Andrew :wwii-veterans: |
Share? hmmm... not so much. That's primarily because my parents, both Holocaust survivors, were very tight lipped about what they experienced in Poland. I would imagine it wasn't easy to discuss enduring years of constant terror, watching people they love die whether through starvation, illness, being gassed or taking a bullet to the head. I remember my mother telling me the story of how she was nearly shot in the head while working in a "factory line" and my father telling me how he lost his left hand while in one of the concentration camps.
Growing up, I only heard bits and pieces - but never anything I could fully comprehend as a child. I am merely grateful for the fact that they not only survived such an ordeal - but had the ability to come to this country and live very productive lives. |
Rosie's stepfather was Milton Bromberg, a Jewish boy 18 yo. He volunteered to go. He was the son of an immigrant. In his family he was the only son, and had 6 sisters. With this said, you can imagine the conversation at the dinner table when he told his parents what he had done that day. But off he went into the army. And Milton loved it. For him, it was his duty, and responsibility. He never regretted his decision. Never.
In his platoon, Milton says there were about 1,000 men at first. NC was his basic training. Then he was moved to Florida, then Texas. However, after basic training, about 300 men failed. The remainders continued on. Milton was fortunate in that he found that he enjoyed being a sharp shooter. So, he was moved to a different unit, and given a different squadron to learn under. In doing so, he also learned to use the "flame thrower" (it is the propaine tanks that the soldiers carried on their backs, with the rubber tubing that was ignited by a Zippo Lighter (of all things) and shot out fire instead of bullets. Milton also learned to shoot a variety of pistols, rifles, and machine guns from that time period. He chose the infantry instead of flying. He felt that he had more of a chance of survival in that than those "angels" - the airmen were always called and referred to as angels on their wings or wingmen. Even today that is what they are referred to as. Milton's first mission was in England. However, he was in a specific unit that was sent in to find certain things. This is where Milton gets very quiet about. He refuses to talk about this part of his duty. I am not sure of what happened or anything. In fact, I am not really sure if Milton stayed in England or traveled to Germany or where. It is a year that he just cannot talk about. The next thing Milton will talk about is Normandy. He was on one of the large ships that was filled with men, tanks, boats, ammunitions, food/water/basic living supplies, and so on. Milton's group was one of the first on the beach. He talks about the ocean going from a blue color to red. Men, bodies, body parts...just the unimaginable everywhere. All these men, young men, in the water, on the beach, hung on barbed wire, just everywhere for miles and miles laying dead. The German's were mercy-less. Milton vividedly remembers having to grab those who died, their rations to survive. For him, he said that it was shot to kill or be killed yourself. That is how he justified what he did or had to do. He had no hesitation shooting or using the flame thrower. And when he did use the flame thrower, he refused to shoot the men who were burning alive. However, if a man who was a flame thrower was hit, and was burning, his fellow soldiers would shoot him to put him out of his pain. Milton was in a group of men who found many POW camps. One of which was Auschwich (sp). He was given a leave, but refused it. In doing so, his CO ordered him to go. That is one of the reasons that Milton struggles at the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, DC. He also finds peace at the WW2 Memorial. Milton and his group of remaining 10 men get together once a year for a weekend. They go to different places each year. One year they returned to Normany, next they went to Washington, DC for the opening of the new monument, and this year they are having it in Richmond. He, like so many other soldiers from WW2, have a problem with President Bush signing a cement slate that sits at one of the entrances/exits of the DC Memorial. Milton feels like the Bush family has no respect for the US or any of the soldiers. It is like a slap in their face. We have given Milton a tape recorder to tape his war stories. They are so fascinating. |
Thanks for starting this thread.
My father was a member of the 761st Tank Battalion (the Black Panthers) as a driver, fighting in Patton's Third Army. He didn't talk a lot about his experiences, like a lot of combat veterans he was very tight lipped about what he saw. When I was younger, like in my early teens, I asked him about the War (and for me 'The War' means WW II, everything else is some specific war--Vietnam, Korea, First and Second Gulf Wars, etc.) and he told me one very humorous story. They were driving across France, traversing some farmer's field when a cow, which was walking maybe 20 yard ahead of his tank, stepped on an anti-tank mine. Being a cow, it was heavy enough to set it off and the cow was blown upwards and ended landing on the turret of the tank. I asked him about the camps and all he did was look at me and tell me that he *never* wanted me to ask him about that ever again. "There's things you just don't ever want to revisit and that is definitely one of them". He also told me that at one point he was thinking about ex-patriating to France and playing in a jazz band. When I asked him why he said "because in France, they treated me like a man". As it turned out, my grandmother talked him out of it. My mother worked for the Boeing aircraft company building bombers. Of my mother's brothers *four* of them were Tuskegee Airmen. Ten years ago, when my father died and I realized I was seeing fewer and fewer WW II veterans around I became seriously concerned. Here was the last generation of Americans who had stared uncompromising evil in the face and *knew* (didn't think but knew) what evil lay in the hearts of men. I worry for those of us left behind because I am concerned that we have lost the sense that there is evil loose in the world and while it isn't the only thing that evil men need in order to do their malevolent deeds, that kind of forgetting certainly facilitates the creation of an environment where it can grow until it is too late to check it. Cheers Aj |
Quote:
|
Quote:
My parents were not Jewish. To my knowledge, even though my mother's maiden name "could" be of Jewish decent - she was Catholic. I will never know about my ancestry - when my parents died, they took whatever memories were left of them to their graves. I can certainly "understand" to a certain degree what it was like for everyone, especially the Jews during that time. |
I had many family members who were in WWII also, but no one would talk about it. I have always been very interested in that era for whatever reason. Maybe it was that no one would speak of it.
I did have an uncle who was a POW in Italy and had shrapnel damage, another uncle who was a pilot in the Pacific and yet another who was in the Battle of the Bulge...but no details other than that. I do have some boxes of mementos I need to go through though, maybe I can find more info there. I do have guns and knives from the era from my father's estate I need to sell. I have watched the Shoa tapes, and read and studied the Holocaust extensively. When we lived in Argentina when I was a kid there were Holocaust survivors, people who escaped before the war and Nazi sympathizers and escapees as well. It was a weird mix. It amazes me that knowing what we do know about that time, we as humans do not do more to prevent war and genocide. I am so disappointed in Us. Killing and torture still happen and no one wants to know. I wonder, if I had been in a situation like the General German population was during the war, how I would have reacted. Would I have given my life to save my fellow human? Or would I choose not to know. As a child I KNEW I would have given my life in a second. Now? I knew about the prison torture in Iraq and did nothing except for vote for the person I thought least likely to continue the torture. Was that enough?...... Just rambling....sorry Andrew. Great subject, I will be reading. |
Milton's side of the family had relatives who ended up in c. camps. The stories they told make my blood boil, and then the tears come. I just don't understand hate, discrimination, or evil. It boggles my mind. Milton also will speak very little of what he saw, and what happened when he came across the c. camps. They tore the soldiers up so horribly. Some of the men actually had mental breakdowns because of it. Today the grass does not grow where the bodies were buried of those who were killed at Ausch. The Pope, when he went there a few years back, threw Holy Water on it, and prayed, but that was all. I am not sure if grass will ever grow there. It is like a continuous reminder of what happened by those who died. There was one battle that Milton talks about constantly. It was between the US and German's. The German's were gathering the upper hand and were heading towards north towards Russia (I think). Milton said it was by far the second worst battle next to Normandy that he ever experienced. The cold was bitter, and there was no food, no cigarettes, no nothing. The soldiers took over towns, and ate/drank whatever they could find. The German's were using children as their tattletails (scouts). Innocent enough, yet, deceiving. So, we ended up having to kill children. In Milton's words, it was them or us. Milton has night terrors and flashbacks to that battle. All those men do. It was a special order by our President (Truman at the time). Milton has medals and letters written by several presidents that are framed and hanging on his wall. |
My father, before he died, was a key player in having a memorial statue erected down by the Jersey City Waterfront - memorializing the deaths of all the Polish people during World War II.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre http://shoutingthomas.typepad.com/ph...tynstatute.gif My father and I have not always met eye to eye on many things .... but I was very proud of him for his involvement in this. |
Paper Clip Box Car Memorial
I'm posting a link to the story of an extraordinary memorial
built by the children at Whitwell Middle School in Tennessee. The children collected 11 million paper clips each representing the 11 million victims of the Nazis: 6 million Jews and 5 million "undesirables." About the Paper Clips in the Box Car Memorial "The Children's Holocaust Memorial consists of an authentic German rail car that was used to transport victims to concentration, labor, and death camps. The rail car houses eleven million paper clips, one for each victim of the Holocaust. A small park surrounds the car. In the park are eighteen butterflies some inlaid with stained glass and others free standing copper sculptures. There is also a monument honoring the children lost in the Holocaust. The school library houses over thirty thousand documents on CDs, a collection of Holocaust books, and art." For more on this story, pictures, donations, videos and books, please visit: http://69.8.250.59/body_pc.cfm?id=86 |
Colonel Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg and Valkyrie
I am a WWII enthusiast and I make it my hobby to read up on the subject, or collect movies and music,
or find interesting facts and memorabilia from the late 30s and 1940s. I think I was born too late which is why I don't have a lot of appreciation for the technology or culture of today. It's not unlike me to talk with my uncle Steve in California for a hours about politics, culture and history. We're both fascinated with WWII history, and we both have watched the film, Valkyrie among other war or political movies, at least a dozen times. Valkyrie recounts the 15th failed attempt to murder Hitler by his own men in the Reich which was spearheaded by Colonel Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg. Valkyrie is an operation put into effect to take control of Germany in the event of Hitler's death. It is a great movie. I've come to learn more and admire Colonel von Stauffenberg as a WWII hero who recognized Hitler's insanity, his crimes against humanity, then attempted to do something that would have liberated and saved thousands. His story and his courage speak volumes about his character and being on the right side of humanity. Not all of WWII is about Nazi Germany or the Holocaust. It's more about an era, a way of life, an event, and hundreds of other topics that cover a very unique time in America and the world. But for now, I want to take the opportunity to present stories of the unsung heros such as von Stauffenberg, along with resources on the Holocaust. Anti-semitism and genocide strike a very serious chord in me having known and grown up with Jewish families whose members survived Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald and Auschwitz. Colonel Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...auffenberg.jpg Claus von Stauffenberg was born in Jettingen,Germany on November 15, 1907. In his youth, he belonged to Stefan George's circle and remained a disciple of the great poet for the rest of his life. He would quote George's The Anti-Christ when recruiting friends and trusted colleagues into the conspiracy. A bright student, at nineteen he became an officer cadet. He attended the War Academy in Berlin and joined the General Staff in 1938 as a quartermaster officer in 1938 in General Erich Hoepner's 1st Light Division, which was renamed 6th Panzer Division in November 1939. Stauffenberg served combat positions in all of Hitler's major campaigns from the Sudetenland to Poland to France to Tunisia. During Operation Barbarossa, Stauffenberg became appalled by the atrocities committed by the Schutzstaffel (SS), SD and “Security Police” units, particularly the mass murder of the Jews in Russia, but he was equally appalled by the atrocities committed by the German Army against Soviet prisoners-of-war and by the treatment of the civil population in Russia at the hands of the German occupation administration and forces, and Stauffenberg cited these matters to Major Joachim Kuhn in August 1942. From the end of May 1940 to the end of January 1943, Stauffenberg served in the Army High Command/General Staff Headquarters. In early 1943, Stauffenberg served with the 10th Panzer Division in Field Marshal Erwin Rommel's Afrika Korps. On April 7, 1943, he was seriously wounded at Sebkhet en Noual, south of Mezzouna in the North African desert, when Allied fighters strafed his vehicle. He lost his left eye, right hand, and last two fingers of his left hand after surgery. Stauffenberg had decided in 1942 that he must try to help overthrow Hitler. He had attempted throughout the summer of 1942 to persuade senior commanders to move against Hitler, and he had declared in September 1942 that he himself was prepared to kill Hitler. In 1943, he only agreed to join in conspiracy with the civilian side of the German Resistance, including Wilhelm Canaris, Carl Goerdeler, Julius Leber, Ulrich Hassell, Hans Oster, Henning von Tresckow, Fabian von Schlabrendorff , Peter Graf Yorck von Wartenburg, Ludwig Beck, and Erwin von Witzleben in what became known as the July Plot. According to the plan, after Adolf Hitler, Hermann Goering and Heinrich Himmler were assassinated, Ludwig Beck, Erwin von Witzleben and Friedrich Fromm would take control of the German Army and seize key government buildings, telephone and signal centres, and radio stations. Stauffenberg was to become State Secretary of the War Ministry in the post-coup government. In June 1944, Stauffenberg was promoted to Colonel and appointed Chief of Staff to Home Army Commander General Friedrich Fromm. This gave him direct access to Hitler's briefing sessions. On July 11, Stauffenberg brought a bomb concealed in a briefcase with him to a briefing at Hitler's Berghof residence. He planned to assassinate Hitler that day, but circumstances beyond his control prevented him from doing so. Four days later, Stauffenberg flew to the Fuehrer's Wolf's Lair headquarters with aide and co-conspirator Captain Klausing. He was ordered by senior conspirators in Berlin to abort the attempt after telephoning to report the absence of Reichsfuehrer SS Heinrich Himmler and Luftwaffe Air Marshal Hermann Goering from the briefing session. He secretly agreed with close friend and Berlin co-conspirator Colonel von Mertz to try to kill Hitler anyway, but when he returned to the briefing room, he discovered the session had ended after only five minutes. On July 20, Stauffenberg flew to the Wolf's Lair again with aide and co-conspirator Lt. Werner von Haeften. Stauffenberg, who had never met Hitler before, carried the bomb in a briefcase and placed it on the floor while he left to make a phone call. The bomb exploded. Of four men in the hut who died of the attack, only one was killed outright. Another died in the afternoon, and two more died later in hospital. Hitler's right arm was badly injured, but he survived the bomb blast. Stauffenberg returned to Berlin with Haeften and arrived at Army High Command Headquarters at 4:30 P.M. to launch the planned coup. The plot unraveled, however, for several reasons: Hitler survived the attack; co-conspirator General Friedrich Olbricht neglected to set the coup in motion during first two hours after the attempt; and the conspirators failed to seize any radio stations or retain authority over reserve army troops in Berlin. In an attempt to protect himself, Fromm organized the execution of Stauffenberg along with three other conspirators, Friedrich Olbricht, Werner von Haeften, and Colonel Albrecht Ritter Mertz von Quirnheim, in the courtyard of the War Ministry. On July 21, 1944, at 12:30 A.M., Stauffenberg was executed by firing squad. It was later reported that Stauffenberg died shouting, "Long live free Germany." |
My wife is also a WW2 buff. We were talking about Von Stauffenberg and she commented that Hitler was so enraged by Von Stauffenbergs disloyalty and attempted murder that he ordered the SS and the Gestapo to locate and kill everyone named Von Stauffenberg. There were people who had never even heard of the Colonel or his attempt to take Hitlers life...but because they had the same last name they were murdered on the spot!
|
What has always interested me about WWII was that in Germany the Nazis were gutter thugs but were adept at using terror to get ordinary people to also do their dirty work. April 13th is Holocaust remeberance day here but we should all do well to keep that kind of evil in remeberance conciously....because it was ordinary people that helped the nazis accomplish what they set out to do...
Hitlers Willing Executioners is a great book.... and in germany there was nil as far as resistance went....oh there was a tiny group called the White Rose Resistance but they did not accomplish much and every single one of the group was turned in by thier neighbors and friends and executed swiftly.....thats what the nazis accoomplished at home....zero resistance |
Jet, Please post the stories you want too. I for one, enjoy reading them. Thanks. Andrew |
The Fighting Sullivans
In my opinion, there is no war story that is more heart wrenching, or has had quite the impact on me, than the story of the five Sullivan brothers from Waterloo, Iowa. The true story of losing five sons on the USS Juneau and how it impacted the nation and changed military policy (pre-private Ryan) has always affected on me — along with the movie, The Fighting Sullivans, which was nominated for Best Story. I had heard the movie wasn't shown for years because it wasn't good for morale. And I remember my mother telling me that people would sit in the theater just weep. Losing the five Sullivans was recorded as the greatest loss to a single family in American history. _____________________________ Below, the letter of condolence from President Roosevelt to Mrs. Sullivan, 1943 Dear Mrs. Sullivan: "The knowledge that your five gallant sons are missing in action, against the enemy, inspired me to write you this personal message. I realize full well there is little I can say to assuage your grief. "As the Commander in Chief of the Army and the Navy, I want you to know that the entire nation shares your sorrow. I offer you the condolence and gratitude of our country. We, who remain to carry on the fight, must maintain the spirit in the knowledge that such sacrifice is not in vain. The Navy Department has informed me of the expressed desire of your sons; George Thomas, Francis Henry, Joseph Eugene, Madison Abel, and Albert Leo, to serve on the same ship. I am sure, that we all take pride in the knowledge that they fought side by side. As one of your sons wrote, `We will make a team together that can't be beat.' It is this spirit which in the end must triumph. "Last March, you, Mrs. Sullivan, were designated to sponsor a ship of the Navy in recognition of your patriotism and that of your sons. I am to understand that you are, now, even more determined to carry on as sponsorer. This evidence of unselfishness and courage serves as a real inspiration for me, as I am sure it will for all Americans. Such acts of fate and fortitude in the face of tragedy convince me of the indomitable spirit and will of our people. "I send you my deepest sympathy in your hour of trial and pray that in Almighty God you will find a comfort and help that only He can bring. Very sincerely yours, "/s/ Franklin D. Roosevelt" ________________________________ I wanted to share the scene from the movie when Mr. and Mrs. Sullivan receive a personal visit from,not one, but three naval officers who deliver the news that their sons had died. I'll paraphrase here: Mr. Sullivan (played by Thomas Mitchell) asks, "which one?" The naval officer (Ward Bond) replies, "All five." The scene is not available on YouTube, at least I couldn't find it, so I'm posting a lighter sequence of the Sullivans as young boys. Enjoy the clip from this great movie, The Fighting Sullivans, 1944 and the memory of the five Sullivan brothers. ____________________________________ The destroyer, USS The Sullivans launched in 1943 After the brothers' death, Mrs. Sullivan christened the fletcher-class destroyer USS The Sullivans in 1943. It was the first of two ships named in honor of the Sullivan brothers. The second is a destroyer launched in 1995 and remains in service today. http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/r...Picture1-2.png The Sullivan Brothers Left to right George Thomas Sullivan, 27 (born 14 December 1914), Gunner's Mate Second Class (George had been previously discharged in May 1941 as Gunner's Mate Third Class.) Francis "Frank" Henry Sullivan, 26 (born 18 February 1916), Coxswain (Frank had been previously discharged in May 1941 as Seaman First Class.) Joseph "Joe" Eugene Sullivan, 24 (born 28 August 1918), Seaman Second Class Madison "Matt" Abel Sullivan, 23 (born 8 November 1919), Seaman Second Class Albert "Al" Leo Sullivan, 20 (born 8 July 1922), Seaman Second Class http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/r...icture16-2.png |
I remember that story of the 5 Sullivan brothers. It amazes me that the US Navy would allow all 5 to fight together. I wonder what the higher command was thinking and what their logic was behind allowing the brothers to fight together. Obviously someone dropped the ball, and the Sullivan's paid the price. Milton would tell me about the movie, "The Fighting Sullivans", and people crying in the movie theatre. It was just a bad time for all of American's. That is one movie Milton still to this day he cannot watch. He just can't. |
No policy regarding family members serving together at the same location had been enacted.
The Sullivan brothers wanted to avenge the death of a friend who had been killed at Pearl Harbor. So all five brothers enlisted in the Navy and fought the recruiting officer and the War Department to serve together, ending up on the USS Juneau which was hit by a torpedo at Guatalcanal. (sp) No one dropped the ball. It was about brotherhood, avenging a death, and very different ideals about serving in war at the time. It was exactly what the Sullivans wanted. They grew up together as five—and did everything as five or none at all. |
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/r...sman/GIJET.png Hollywood stepped in with war movies, actors going off to war, and big name volunteers at the Hollywood Canteen. Three of the best for boosting morale with jitterbug and a good supply of boogie woogie and Swing were Patty, Maxine and Laverne. The Andrews Sisters. | |
My father was just a few years too young to serve in WWII. I think it always bothered him that he couldn't serve. His father served in both WWI and WWII: the former, mostly in France, the latter as a quartermaster in a major army training camp in Nova Scotia.
My grandfather NEVER spoke of the war itself. Never. He told a few stories of times spent in cafes - sang a few French songs he'd learned there. The same for my Great-Uncle. It was behind them. They'd survived fighting in the mud and trenches that was France in their experiences. I doubt they thought that any good could come of sharing what they chose to keep to themselves. Five years spent over there. Their youth squandered in the mud. |
Heres a website for the Holocaust Collection. It includes stories,concentration camps,looted valuables and national archive records.
http://go.footnote.com/holocaust/ |
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/r...sman/GIJET.png Raoul Wallenberg Righteous Among the Nations To me there's no other choice. I've accepted this assignment and I could never return to Stockholm without the knowledge that I'd done everything in human power to save as many Jews as possible. — Raoul Wallenberg http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/r...icture13-7.png Being a history buff, I used to watch The History Channel religiously until I noticed that they seemed to air documentaries and footage of Hitler constantly. Finally, I wrote an email to their programming department asking why they felt it necessary to to glorify Adolph Hitler by giving that madman so much air time and very little air time to heroes of the Holocaust, or other topics on WWII for that matter. I wanted to know why they were absorbed with footage of atrocities, and if they were aware that incredible heroism did take place to save thousands of victims of the Holocaust. And then, having the temper and mouth that I have, I wanted to know what neo-Nazi on their staff was making programming decisions in favor of airing Hitler, who wasn't anything to look at anyway. I was hot under the collar because their programming was so tilted and I wanted a more fair and wider range of programming subjects regarding WWII. The gutless wonders never wrote back. That said, I'd like to post some information about an incredible man named Raoul Wallenberg and links to the Wallenberg foundation and Yad Vashem. Wallenberg is credited for saving 30,000 Hungarian Jews, but it's more around the figure of 100,000, and he considered one of the foremost heroes of WWII. Raoul Wallenberg (August 4, 1912 – July 17, 1947?) was a Swedish humanitarian who worked in Budapest, Hungary, during World War II to rescue Jews from the Holocaust. Between July and December 1944, he issued protective passports and housed Jews, saving tens of thousands of Jewish lives. On January 17, 1945, he was arrested in Budapest by the Soviets after they wrested control of the city from the Germans, and was reported to have died in March. The exact circumstances of his death have long been in dispute. In 1957, the Soviets claimed that Wallenberg had actually died of a heart attack in 1947 at the age of 35. There had been reports, however, from prisoners in the same facility, that he was seen alive long past 1947. In 1991, Vyacheslav Nikonov was assigned by the Russian government to find out the truth; he concluded that Wallenberg did indeed die in 1947, executed while a prisoner at Lubyanka.[6] Associated Press reported in April 2010, that newly discovered evidence shows "with great likelihood" that Wallenberg was alive after the date the Soviets claimed he died. Wallenberg has been honored numerous times. He is an honorary citizen of the United States, Canada, Hungary and Israel. Israel has also designated Wallenberg one of the Righteous among the Nations. Monuments have been dedicated to him, and streets have been named after him throughout the world. A Raoul Wallenberg Committee of the United States was created in 1981 to "perpetuate the humanitarian ideals and the nonviolent courage of Raoul Wallenberg" and gives out the Raoul Wallenberg Award to that end. For more facts on Raoul Wallenberg, please visit: The Raoul Wallenberg International Foundation http://www.raoulwallenberg.net/?en/w...graphy.611.htm Raoul Wallenberg Honored as Righteous Among the Nations, Yad Vashem http://www1.yadvashem.org/righteous_...allenberg.html |
The best-kept secret in the U.S. about the Holocaust is that Poland lost six million citizens or about one-fifth of its population: three million of the dead were Polish Christians, predominantly Catholic, and the other three million were Polish Jews. The second best-kept secret of the Holocaust is the greatest number of Gentile rescuers of Jews were Poles, despite the fact that only in Poland were people (and their loved ones) immediately executed if caught trying to save Jews. The Yad Vashem museum in Israel honors "the Righteous Among the Nations" and Poland ranks first among 40 nations with 5,503 men and women, almost one-third of the total, honored for their "compassion, courage and morality" and who "risked their lives to save the lives of Jews."
Why the Polish Holocaust is rarely recognized by American media and wire services or mentioned in Holocaust literature has baffled Polish Americans and Poles, especially since so many books and articles have been published about the Holocaust. The historical record clearly indicates that Hitler had a specific master plan for Poles, whom he hated almost as much as he hated Jews. Poles were regarded as Untermenschen or subhumans and their land was slated to provide Germany with Lebensraum (living space). Before the Nazis invaded Poland, Hitler announced, “The destruction of Poland is our primary task.” He also commanded, “Kill without pity or mercy all men, women, and children of Polish descent or language. Only in this way can we obtain the living space we need.” Hitler’s head of secret police, Heinrich Himmler, promised that “all Poles will disappear from the world.” In the early years, most prisoners at Auschwitz were Poles, not Jews. Of the first 611 people who died at Auschwitz, 591 were Poles and 20 were Jews. |
I think I've posted about this on the other sites, but since this thread specifically addresses stories about WWII, I thought I'd post the story here (again), because I think it's a good little story.
My Pop was 13 years old when WWII broke out in 1941. He born and raised in Honolulu, Hawaii, the youngest of 7 children (4 boys, 2 girls), to parents who had immigrated from the Chinese province of Canton, in the southern section of mainland China. Pop was playing in the street, that morning, when he watched the Japanese planes flying low over his house in Kaimuki, on their way to bomb Pearl Harbor. Like most boys of that time, he was fascinated with air planes and enamored with the stories of the famous flyer, Charles Lindbergh. He has always told me that he knew the planes were Japanese because these were flying so low that he could clearly spot the red "meatball" painted on the sides of the planes, and even the faces of some of the pilots. No one had any idea what they were doing, or going to do, until the sounds of explosions rocked the city of Honolulu and thick black smoke began to billow into the sky above Pearl Harbor. Pop said that my grandmother gathered everyone into the basement of the small house and kept them there for all of that day. My Uncle Richard was a civil service pipe fitter at Pearl Harbor during that time, and the family didn't see him for 3 days following the bombing and only knew that he was part of the original response team called to cut open the hulls of capsized Navy ships to rescue the trapped crews. During the duration of the War, Pop continued his schooling at St. Louis High School and also worked part time at the Dole Pineapple factory, in Honolulu. His entire family had worked at Dole, at one time or another, with the exception of my grandfather, who spoke no English, but was an accountant in a book store. Pop's job in the pineapple factory was to monitor and adjust the temperature of the juice that is packed with canned pineapple. When the War finally ended in 1945, Pop was still working in the Dole factory. Funny, but Pop still says, to this day, that his stint in the pineapple factory gave him the incentive to stick to his studies and get an education so he wouldn't be doomed to that kind of physical labor for the rest of his life!! On V-J Day (Victory over Japan), August 15, 1945, Pop heard the news of the Japanese surrender on the radio while working his shift at the Dole factory. Back then, the Dole factory in Honolulu had a huge steam whistle on the top of a water tower that could be heard over most of the island of Oahu. Pop asked his supervisor if he could climb up that tower and blow the big steam whistle. His supervisor agreed, and Pop said that one of the most joyful days in his life, to this day, has been the memory of pulling (and dangling on, because Pop was always a skinny kid) on that rope and letting that whistle blow and blow. A few years ago, Pop gave me a package that was carefully wrapped and preserved in a small cellophaned bundle. It was The Honolulu Star evening edition, dated December 8, 1941, the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed. One of his friends from high school had a part time job at the newspaper back then, and had given this to Pop. He'd kept it all of these years and was now turning it over to me to keep. It's one of my most treasured possessions, to this day, from my Pop. Pop was never able to join the military because his eyes were so bad. I think that's always been a bit of a disappointment for him throughout his lifetime. He made the best of it, though, and got a wonderful education, along with his PhD. He's never forgotten that day in December, so many years ago. I'll never forget him telling me about it. Those Americans who lived and fought through WWII really were The Greatest Generation. I don't think the world will ever see anything as grand as that generation. ~Theo~ :bouquet: Oh yes, and Mother was a real life "Rosie the Riveter"!!! :winky: |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
However, most people think Hitler only hated the Jews. A lot of people did not know that he (and the Soviet Union with their secret pact to divide Poland) hated the Poles (more specifically) just as much and literally wanted them wiped off the face of the earth. He was "afraid" of polish patriotism and the damage that could have caused his "master plan". Many years ago, I came across this petite Jewish woman in Queens. I don't remember exactly how the subject came up, but she mentioned she was a survivor of the holocaust. I told her that my parents were too, and she immediately replied "Oh, you are Jewish too?" I said no. I told her my parents weren't Jewish, they were Catholic and they were Polish. Over the years I have encountered quite a number of people who thought that if you weren't Jewish, you were not necessarily targeted by the Nazis. This is so far from the truth. In fact, I have heard some crazy notions about what they thought happened during the war. |
I just knew that Hitler was after Jews and any persons deemed "undesirable" and "useless" in his scheme to generate a supreme arian race. That meant disabled, homosexual, elderly and Jews, He also annihilated Russians iby the millions and people forget that. Jews were prosperous, they owned businesses, they were educated, non-arian, and they maintained status and wealth during a depression in Germany. NJFemmie, and everyone thanks for contributing to Andrew's thread with such interesting and educated posts. I'm going to move on from the subject of the Holocaust for a little while since WWII is a favorite subject and there are a few stories I want to contribute. If you are interested in the Holocaust, I would also recommend some incredible movies on the subject, if you haven't seen them already. The Holocaust - mini-series with Meryl Streep and James Woods Playing for Time -Venessa Redgrave Jakob the Liar - Robin Williams The Diary of Anne Frank is a given La vita č bella (Life is Beautiful) subtitled but an incredible movie about a child and his protective father in the camps. Shindler's List is a given and if there are others, please feel free to recommend them. |
One more movie I'd like to recommend:
The Scarlet and The Black - Gregory Peck (true story about a monsignor who disguised himself to leave the Vatican and past the Nazi's to help Jews escape from secret locations.) |
Quote:
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/r...icture11-4.png America had phones just like this. The irony of all this is that post WWII kicked off a new technological age. *shakes head* |
Hitlers ideology was to wipe off the face of the earth most of eastern europe--thats why almost all of the concentration camps were in eastern euprope and mostly in poland...
Lebensraum as the nazi concept-- happened because anything east of germany was considered so low and less than that the germans were trying to not only reinvent history but also reinvent the populations of europe...there were no death camps west of poland, there were internment camps but the death camps were solely reserved for areas east of germany... NJFemmie is right that most people dont realize that the intellectuals in poland were the first to be exterminated and interned in death camps that they had to build themselves...the population of poland was decimated and god forbid if you were an intellectual...you wouldve been the first to be targeted... a great fictional work by William Styron deals with this in his book" Sophies Choice, the movie was good but the book was phenomenal and Hitler had real power.....what i mean by that is that real power comes when you do not have to speak what it is you wish to happen because your underlings and toadies know exactly what you want to happen....he never had to mention concentration camps but they were built......I always think about that when i look at power as a concept in leadership....makes me shudder |
The Shoah series is a tremendous cinematic experience and very accessible....it truly is an incredible feat
|
I wish I knew of stories to tell - but the "silence" of the Holocaust truly does affect generations. I know nothing about my family history beyond my parents, essentially... and even their lives I know very little about because of the pain they suffered.
I certainly do not diminish what has happened to other cultures, countries and races because of this war, but I can say that as I get older, the desire to know more about my pre-war family has become painful and frustrating. I remember as a child, I would go through some serious separation anxiety when my mother would take trips to Poland to find ANY kind of information about her brother, who we suspect either died in, or was murdered in a camp. All I know is that they were separated, and never saw each other again. My mother was 14 at the time, and I think her brother was only a few years older. |
"War Against the Jews"
by Lucy S. Dawidowicz I would like to recommend, the book, The War Against the Jews by Lucy S. Dawidowicz, who is a scholar of Jewish life. The book is regarded as an in-depth, pioneering study of Nazi genocide. About the Mrs. Dawidowicz and War Against the Jews She was the daughter of Polish immigrants, was at the center of the study of the modern Jewish experience at Yeshiva University, where she held a chair in interdisciplinary Holocaust studies. Early in her career, in the immediate aftermath of World War II, she went to Europe, where she helped Jewish survivors of the war to re-create schools and libraries, and she recovered vast collections of books seized by the Nazis. Before that, while in her early 20's, she had lived in Vilna, Poland, from 1938 to 1939, where she witnessed the onslaught of European anti-Semitism, writing about the experience in a memoir, "From That Place and Time," published by W. W. Norton last year. Her other books include "The Jewish Presence" (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich) in 1977 and "The Holocaust and the Historians" (Harvard University Press), a critical survey of scholarship on the Holocaust, in 1981. Hopes Turn to Agonies "There was a certain irony to my trip to Vilna," Mrs. Dawidowicz told an interviewer for Publisher's Weekly, speaking of her pre-war experience in Poland. "I went there with the romantic belief that it might become the world center for a self-sustaining Yiddish culture." When she saw what turned out to be the beginning of the end of Jewish life in Poland, she immersed herself in Yiddish literature and Jewish history, so that she could help to preserve Jewish culture in the postwar world. Mrs. Dawidowicz (pronounced dah-vee-DOH-vich), a small energetic woman who spoke in the accents of the Bronx, engaged in heated arguments within Jewish circles over both the nature of the Holocaust and the responsibility of American Jews for not doing more to prevent it. Her major work, "The War Against the Jews," postulates that the destruction of the Jews was a central and inescapable element in Nazi ideology and was always a principle war aim of Hitler, just as important as his military conquest of Europe. In this view, she conflicted with other historians, who believed that the Holocaust was not a necessary part of the Nazi program but evolved in response to such circumstances as the defeats on the Eastern front. "The War Against the Jews" (Holt, Rinehart & Winston) was called "a work of high scholarship and profound moral import" by Irving Howe, in his review in The New York Times Book Review. It is marked above all by its sobriety. Mrs. Dawidowicz allows the coolly accumulated weight of detail -- the growing force of the Nazi's anti-Semitic juggernaut, the evolution of the camps as places of scientific murder, the efforts by the victims to hold onto fragments of normal life -- to create its emotional and intellectual impact. Mrs. Dawidowicz refused to judge the failure of the Jews themselves to mount a more active resistance to the genocide, and in this she clashed bitterly with a number of other historians. Her belief was twofold. First, she felt it morally inappropriate for those who did not face the persecutions themselves to criticize the behavior of those who did. Second, she felt that in any case, Jewish resistance was doomed to failure. Given the Jews' isolation, their lack of arms and the overwhelming material superiority of their enemies, there was virtually nothing they could have done to alter their fate, she wrote. Defended Role of Jews In her book The Holocaust and the Historians, Mrs. Davidowicz is critical of a number of historians and commentators -- Bruno Bettelheim, Hannah Arendt and Raul Hilberg are among those she mentions -- who described the European Jews during the war as passive, cowardly or, in the case of the Judenrat, set up by the Nazis as self-governing boards in the ghettos, even collaborationist. Similarly, Mrs. Dawidowicz rejected a chorus of opinion to the effect that Jews in the United States were guilty of complacency and a failure to react effectively to the Holocaust. In articles in Commentary magazine and The New York Times, she wrote, first, that the Jews here did undertake wipespread efforts to awaken the government and world opinion to the fate of the European Jews. Second, she argued that, in any case, whatever might have been done here, the Jews of Europe were caught in a vise from which virtually no escape was ever possible. The only way to save them, she believed, was to militarily defeat the Nazis as quickly as possible, and that fact justified the Allies' concentration on the war effort, rather than on efforts to save the Jews. Mrs. Dawidowicz, whose maiden name was Lucy Schildkret, was born in New York in 1915 and educated at Hunter College and Columbia University. She recounts in "From That Time and Place" how she began to work for YIVO's Manhattan branch after her year in Vilna. She met her husband, Szymon Dawidowicz, an escapee from Poland there. Mr. Dawidowicz died in 1979. Source material: The New York Times |
Quote:
I was involved with a Jewish girl whose mother had been sent to Bergen-Belsen as a child. She had been separated from her sister, never to be seen or heard from until.... one day, while visiting in Israel, my ex-girlfriend's mother had met up with several people on her trip in a search for information on Holocaust survivors. She took with her, the only known photograph of her sister..... who just happened to be in the group of people searching for surviving members of their families. The sisters reunited after 40 some years, can you imagine? After the camps were liberated, my girlfriend's mother came to the US on a sponsorship from the Sears family (as in Sears & Roebuck) who brought many surviving Jews to the US. God works amazing things.... |
Hannah Arendt wrote an interesting book called " The Origins of Totalitarianism" and she is credited with the phrase " the banality of Evil"
She posited that the real people responisble for allowing the nazis to rise to power were the same normal people that went to work everyday blindly following orders and doing what they were told.... the people that were signing off on death orders were called "writing desk executioners" they were the workers who went to thier jobs everyday and did what they were told because they followed the rules... she is very controversial but regardless of the differing opinons on her writing and her philosophy she actually made me think when i had to read that book... the masses in germany and europe followed orders blindly and did what they were told...no dissent, no arguement, because of conditioning....I hope that in my lifetime im never put in that postion ever....i do not want to be a blind sheeple ever....I always want to have the spirit of dissent in my blood and in my bones even if it means im breaking the law somehow....i never want to forget what happend in that war... |
If you have HBO, I highly recommend the new 10 part series The Pacific. It's produced and filmed by the same outstanding group who produced Band of Brothers. I can't help but be extremely enthusiastic about this show, because it's about the unit I served with, the 1st Marine Division.
It's certainly worth watching and focuses on how the war affected the Marines who fought the Japanese in the Pacific. Every now and then, I run across an old Marine where I work, the most recent an old grizzled retired Sgt.Maj. who fought at the battle of Iwo Jima. He finally finished his 28 year career as the command Sgt.Maj of the Marine detachment aboard the USS Kitty Hawk, during Vietnam. When I met Sgt.Maj. Leo Tucker, I met a living hero. He truly was a hero of "the old breed". When I shook his hand and introduced myself, for some odd reason, it felt like I was touching across the generations of Marines who have served. He had served in the "fighting 1st MarDiv". If you get a chance, watch it. :winky: Semper Fidelis, ~Theo~ :bouquet: |
I believe that all vets are our heroeos, not just those who fought in wars. I am just so very proud of our men and women who volunteer, but never saw "war" so to speak. My hat is off to all of you. Theo, I have a major issue with Steven Speilberg, Tom Hanks, and HBO with the new movie "The Pacific". Most of our men and women from that time period just don't have the income to have HBO/cable. I believe it should have been made into a mini-series on regular TV. That way everyone could watch the show. When I have gone to the WW2 Memorial in Washington, DC and you see the memorabilia left behind...it just brings tears to most everyone's eyes. It is our history. And the men and women who I see there still wearing their hats or parts of their uniform from days gone by, it may have faded but it is just as real today as it was back then. The reflection pond with the stars...that is my tipping point. It is magnificant. I don't think any photograph can do it justice. It is just that powerful. Much love and peace, Andrew |
Quote:
I totally get your point about making this series and others like it accessible to more people on a broader scale and not just those who can afford things like HBO. Thing is, The Pacific will end up being like Band of Brothers and will be, in time, picked up by non premium television networks. If I remember correctly, The History Channel wasn't long in running Band of Brothers, after its premier showing on HBO. And, a word about Steven Spielberg......he has donated, free of any charge, to multiple schools and organizations, copies of Schindler's List. I think he realizes the importance of as many people of future generations seeing these historical productions as possible. I salute him for that. :winky: There was a quote in the Band of Brothers series that I will never forget. In it, one of the Veteran narrators says something like, "I wonder if future generations will ever know what it cost the men who fought and died in this war". Indeed. ~Theo~ :bouquet: |
Theo, Thank you. I did not know that about Steven Spielberg and HBO. That makes me happy to know. I know I watch "Band of Brothers", "Schindler's List", and "Saving Private Ryan" with vets repeatedly. They will see a scene and then go talking for hours at a time about certain things they encountered in Germany, Poland, or where they were. The one remark they all agree on about the movie "Saving Private Ryan" is that the first 10 minutes of the invasion was only Hollywood's version of what it was really like. They all say if you intensify it by 500 times that much, then that is what it was really like. The boats ran aground, tanks never made it to shore during the fighting, and the poor men. Men were just stacked on top of each other, either they were shot or drowned. The one thing I find interesting is that back then there were alot of soldiers who didn't know how to swim. Now it is a requirement. If you ever get a chance to come to the East Coast, I would love to take you to the WW2 monument, The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, and Arlington Nat'l Cemetary. All are just breathtaking. And to watch the soldiers march at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is sobering. The detail of their march, and the changing of the guard. Unbelieveable. It makes one proud to be American. One of the things I would like to do, in the Jewish faith it is customary to place a stone at the grave of a family member or friend or relative. I want to place a stone on Mr. Schlinder's grave. It would be such a privilage and honor to do so. |
Popping into see interesting stories on WW2. Thanks for the great tip on HBO and the Pacific, unforunatelyI don't get it.
|
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:51 PM. |
ButchFemmePlanet.com
All information copyright of BFP 2018