Exactly. That is how I was seeing it when I wrote the first post. I saw/see it as a way to protect my wife and also as a way to make things easy and less stressful if we ended. I would actually see it as me being a good husband and doing something "for us", by initiating the process for the two of us.

I think that it is also easy for people who dont have any family assets to say that they would never consider it, as there is not a reason for them to consider it in the first place. It has nothing to do with the money you make as a couple, it has to do with money that you had before the person ever existed in your world. Or, at least for me, that is what I would want in a pre-nup. Not the money we make as a couple.

Not to sound too jaded about it but frankly there is love and there is the business of life. I have auto and home insurance in case the unthinkable happens and Mother Nature decides those trees in the back yard are coming down on my stuff. I may hope and trust it won't happen but if it does I like to know what to expect while I go about picking up the pieces. I feel the same way about organ donation and end of life decisions. I want to have the hard conversations now while happy and smiling, not standing in the E.R. feeling scared and pressured. To me a pre-nup fits right in there with the first two life items. I am 100% for a pre-nup because I love clarity and a pre-nup provides that for me. I have been married before and we did not have a pre-nup however we were young, dewy-eyed in love and with no kids. Now I am older and the kiddo is 13. Priorities have shifted and while I find it almost laughable that I would get married again (never say never I suppose) I would want to make sure she is taken care of going forward. Especially if something were to happen before she was 18.

I won't reiterate what some of the other posters have said about aging, care issues, etc. as I do agree with all of those. What I do want to emphasize is I truly believe a pre-nup protects both parties regardless of whether their assets are equally matched going in or not. All it takes is one terrible accident and one partner is deceased, one incapacitated and now a guardian of the incapacitated is contesting the will of the deceased and leaving kids from a previous marriage cut out. I've seen that happen and it was ugly. A pre-nup (the deceased owned a business that the other spouse was not involved with at all) would have prevented that from happening. I also know the incapacitated spouse loved those kids and would never have wanted that to happen. But as she was incapacitated mentally she had no say. Not only was it ugly to resolve it was also expensive.

As an aside I do think it will be interesting in ten or so years to compare the divorce statistics of gay couples with those of straight couples. I'd like to think after years and years of fighting for the right to marry that our divorce stats will be lower, but sadly I am not banking on it.

Katniss~~ (As granny used to say, "Trust the preacher but have the ushers count the collection.")

I'm not quite catching you. I can fuck whomever I want. Hell, I can fuck three people at the same time. Not sure what fucking has to do with it...

Where I live is common law domestic partnerships. That means if you file your taxes as a couple, and you live together for two years, regardless of going through a ceremony or not, in the eyes of the law you are married. That means they can rack up debts for you, take half your stuff, make decisions about your health if you are sick and in hospital and make claims for child support. Amongst other things.

So before moving in with someone here, it's very wise to sign a legal document making things very clear. My mum and her common law partner were deeply in love with each other. My mum didn't want to get married again. But since they lived together 80% of the time and they both had families from previous marriages, they drew up contracts.

Good thing too because he died very suddenly and his family was right there waiting to take half of mums stuff as his. Which they could have done if it wasn't for paper work done up.

Life is far more complicated with unseen or unrealized angles outside your own box.

I agree with Dapper and cupcake, I think no matter how we feel at the moment or we imagine a "love to be" marriage is a legal contract that protects only certain benefits. We all do not know what life will bring us. It is not a matter of trusting or not trusting one another. There are other people and circumstances that spouses or partners entered into prior to the marriage, their are things and people that we might need to protect and be responsible for prior and even during the marriage.

No matter how I toss it around, I agree with this sentiment. If either of us feels iffy about going all in with regard to love, finances, combined households, raising children, etc then we can just remain an unmarried couple. that is a good way to protect yourself from me and any of my nefarious ways that you may think are hidden and laying in wait.

But if you are saying you want to get married, to *me* that means all in. All the way in the ring. 0 limbs outside.

I do own a business that I alone am investing in and I do have land that I will inherit, but the way I see it...there are so many worse things I can and will lose during the breakdown of a marriage that are dear.

Because in many places even if you don't get married you get considered common law married anyway?

Laws are different all over the planet ;)

The breakdown of a marriage is always hard. I wish we had a prenuptial agreement in place. Even when someone is in a serious relationship where joint property is involved.

I am usually the one to walk away from everything but there are only so many times you can start over.

In addition, I would not want my or the other person's family members to try to swoop up everything if one of the parents pass.

I would want to sign a prenuptial with the other person as much as I would like them to sign one with me.

We both had property, 401k's, bank accounts and I had an upcoming inheritance...in fact I inherited from both my grandmother and my mother. We were married without a pre-nup, and we went into it with eyes wide open and everything in us has gone into the for better or worse part.

I still stand behind the school of thought that says when you plan for the end, it will come.

Hell yeah, no one can have my beanie baby collection, my giant hello kitty, my vegan recipe books, my vinyl collection. .. I don't care how cute you are. You can't have them!

Angel, careful, there are gold diggers out there just waiting to pounce!

The vinyl collection! See I was thinking that I didn't really have a reason for a pre-nup. But yeah, need to protect my vinyl! Good looking out. Guess I'd need one.

Agreed, people sometimes do change, but usually not their basic ethics, if they seem to maybe you didn't know them quite that well or in the lush of new love you look the other way. It happens, we want to think of the person we are in love in the very best of terms..for those who can't deal with the risk, I can see a prenup is a good solution but I still understand the need for a marriage license. But I am stubborn that way :P

Maybe you haven't dealt with what I have. And it *certainly* wasn't the flush of new love.
I've changed quite a bit in the last two years.
I've had friends that last over 25, and 30 years. I've watched them change deeply. That we are still friends are only because I grew up with them.

People change their ethics. A lot. What my ethics were 10 years ago are not the same as they are now after living in a different continent and going through severve poverty, a break down and a divorce.
My life has taught me people change in big fat huge ways, right through their core if life hits them hard enough.
So, I have to disagree.

I suppose I look at pre-nups a bit differently than some of the other posters here. To me a pre-nup would be honoring a commitment I made before I met my future spouse. My daughter is 13 and as soon as I became pregnant with her I made a commitment. (Goodbye Diet Coke and and crappy eating for 9 months). Part of that commitment is to see to her financial well-being at least until she is an adult. I have every intention of paying for her college. I worked my way through college by waiting tables, working at the student cafeteria and holding a work-study position. All at the same time. Because of this I had to decline some research opportunities that had no or little pay. To this day I have very few regrets however having to bypass the opportunity to study wild dolphins off the coast is at the top of the list. I want her to be able to take the opportunities that arise and make the most of them. Like it or not money helps in this regard. When I was married I put my spouse through school. He didn't have to work at all and was a full-time student. I have also helped finance cars, pay off debts, etc. I have no regrets about this nor am I bitter. But I was younger. I'm 49 now and the "Katniss Scholarship Program for Wayward Adults" is closed. If I were to marry again (insert maniacal laughter here) I would not leave the new spouse out in the cold, but my financial past (401K, real estate holdings, etc.) is spoken for.

I also have 2 friends who were together (before the legalization of gay marriage) for 12 years. Long story short there was cheating and an eventual end to the relationship. After the dust had settled and they were on speaking terms again they had the dilemma of what to do with a beach house they co-owned. Neither could afford to buy the other out (prices had skyrocketed), and neither wanted to sell. They came up with a truce where they both still co-own the property and alternate weekends and holidays on who gets use. In their wills they have each left the other with their share of the house. They also agreed in a notarized document that should either marry then that person would have a pre-nup regarding the beach house not being communal property. This makes sense to me because the pre-nup has nothing to do with trust or lack thereof in a new spouse, and everything to do with honoring a previous commitment to someone they had at one time cared for a great deal. While a will can accomplish distribution of property a pre-nup is added insurance.

It's interesting to read the different responses. I suppose my greatest hope is that those contemplating marriage at some point sit down and have discussions about finances, debt, financial planning, etc. If a pre-nup makes the couple feel safe and cared for then I don't think anyone else should believe that marriage is less trusting or loving or "all in" than a couple that eschews a pre-nup.

Katniss~~

It's sad that this is in fact a necessity. At the beginning everything is all lalala great and that person would never do anything to hurt you in such a way. WRong.... By the end That person you thought you knew no longer exists and they just want to take from you. Besides what's the harm in it? If you're not wanting to ef someone over then there's no reason not to.

Thank you.

I don't think that people who don't do prenup are foolish. Tinkerbelly's reasons are fantastic for her.

And anyone saying that me asking for a pre-nup is because I don't trust partners or its all business or I am self destructing a relationship can sit and spin.

I only ever say what works for me, and try to give the thought that went into the decision.

Your experience (general your) may vary, and is just as valid for you.

I'm not a judge of anyone but myself. :rrose:

Exactly. That is where I was going with my post.

My sentments exactly!

It is interesting to read all the differing views, and no one view is "right" or "wrong"...it is all part of our diversity/adversity!!!

Thanks, K!!!:rrose:

I am going to make up a pre nup if I ever get married, just in case.

If she won't sign it then it's not meant to be.