Public Displays of Affection (PDA)
 

I have a question...

Let me start with some background.
I am a very affectionate person, I like to touch, hold hands, caress, kiss and I never think about where I am or who might be around. My girlfriend is like that at home but not in public. She is getting used to holding my hand, maybe a quick kiss if she thinks no one is around.

Last night we were at a street festival with another couple and we walked up holding hands and the first comment out of the butches mouth was "whoa no PDA". So, me being me I had to crawl all over my girlfriend and kiss her everywhere. The butch got mad and walked away, my girlfriend just laughed and asked why I have to piss everyone off.

Through out the evening my girlfriend and I held hands off and on but the other couple never did, never touched, you would never even know they were a couple. They had their son with them, and they both were very affectionate to him, but not each other.

Later I asked my girlfriend about it, and we had discussed it before. She says as butches they are the ones that will get beaten up, they are the ones that get the attitude. She doesn't like to make people feel uncomfortable so she doesn't like to be in their face with it. I said that if more lesbian/gay couples showed PDA that it would become more acceptable, not such a shock to the poor little hetro's lives.

So... my question(s) is, do butches think this is true, is it more dangerous for you to show PDA? and is it more common for femmes to want to be publicly affectionate?

How do you identify and what are your thoughts on PDA?

I never really think about it because I am an affectionate person. I am not sure if that has to do with how I identify or not, but because I have not ever personally had an issue, I haven't had to worry about it.

Thoughts...

Hmmm
 

I think it's an individual choice, not a gender or gender presentation choice. Do you live in an area where being gay is a big deal?

I think it's a personal preference based on past experience and comfort level. I identify as butch and I have no issues at all showing PDA's. Luckily I've never experienced any negativity or backlash because of it. I don't do it to piss people off, prove a point, or to make some kind of political statement. I do it because I'm just a very loving and affectionate person. I want the woman I'm with to feel adored and to know that I'm proud to be by her side!

Although, I don't think its a gender thing, I do think its a past experience thing for most folks. Therefore, it may appear that more of butch/TG/FTM avoiding PDA.

From my own experience I have witnessed and lived through more issues being who I am and how I express myself than the femmes I have known in my life time. Like some others, I too was raised in a time of beatings.. name calling...and death threats for anyone who was remotely perceived as gay (whether true or not mind you).

So, I tend to be more conservative with my PDA. However, I am not against it and I don't push my partner away when she wants to show PDA...nor do I get mad at folks that show it around me.

I'm not butch so I can only answer from my own perspective as a tough, combative femme. Many years ago, long before I knew myself better, I presented more androgynously and had a few femme-ish girlfriends. Once I was busy kissing one of those long-ago, somewhat femme-er than me girlfriends goodbye at the subway when a nasty dude yelled something very threatening at us. I promptly gave him the finger with a hand just freed from embracing the gf. I did NOT stop kissing her. A few busy NYers rushing for the subway snickered. At the stupid, nasty dude. I was fully prepared for the physical altercation that never happened.

There's no way to know exactly why I got away with that one. It could have just been that we're New Yorkers and it was rush hour, but I thought then, and am more sure now, that if I had looked more traditionally butch I would have faced a far more hostile audience. We were young, white, long haired girls, so we had tremendous privilege. Using my acknowledged privilege to challenge bigots made me feel really powerful. Yes, I just wanted to kiss my gf goodbye at the subway like anyone else, but it added frisson to do it AND say F-YOU to a bigot.

I understand that it's very different outside of bigger cities, and particularly outside of THIS big city, but even in more remote areas PDA is a lot less shocking for many these days because of TV. When the above incident happened the number of same-sex PDA events that had been portrayed on TV were so small that we all knew them and could discuss them in one short, critical conversation.

It's likely that many of us are still behaving in ways that haven't changed with our changing environments. If we were beaten up for PDA in our youth, or taught that a beating was likely, that would have had a lasting influence.

Do I think that butches have had to deal with the actual beatings in a way that I haven't? HELL yeah. And I honour them for it.

I am much more likely to initiate a PDA, just because like others here I have never been beaten or harassed for just being me. My wife is getting more comfortable with it all the time, and I think that's because it's with me.

There are few people who would say anything to me or to us once they get a look at my expression...even when not angry, I have a go to Hell/ don't fuck with me look about me which most people would never test.

LOL smart folks

I live in Canada in a big City, it has never been an issue for me, nor do I think it should be.

I agree, that it is a past experience thing, so does that mean that more butches are harassed more then the femmes? I know I have never been.

I agree, no one needs that.


I think it is sad how much our society has moved away from touch in all regards. Any pda, teacher/student, step parent/step child, father/son, homeless/anyone and so much more. We attach such a sexual connotation to touch and touch is so important for our emotional/spiritual/physical health.

We are so immune to violence that we don't flinch at that but a gay couple holding hands will send some over the edge. What is wrong with this picture? Everything.

Thoughts
 

I think it's cultural as well, Latinos are a touchy bunch, my mother never was but other members of my family are, there is hugging, kissing and always a hand or a touch somewhere. I am like that with most of my chosen family and they back, all my chosen family have some sort of need for *touch* it's always been part of my life. Some American people are on the more reserved side, I say American because I've been around other cultures that are just as touchy as we are (Latinos). I dunno, I do know that as a queer I watch more who I touch and how outside of the circles I mentioned above. Once some folks (not all) catch on that you aren't hetero like them, then either they get weird, the vibe gets weird, or they flat out think a touch means you are interested or that you are being oogie gay... I dunno that's a thought.

Hmmm
 

I was more refering to how hetero folk act when they peg you as queer/gay/different/etc/etc, with touch from us. I was also more just talking about laruss' bringing up that we as a whole (society) are not tactile due to people more into violence.

I am aware of my surroundings more here in the South than I am say in Portland. I find either way that if someone is *bothered* or what I like to call homophobic it isn't going to matter where one lives, bigotry taints all our communities.

Let me preface this by saying, PDA is a good thing as with most things in moderation. I like others am not a fan of anyone trying to give someone a tonsillectomy in public no matter who you are.

As a butch, I'm not afraid to show affection to my partner, I'm blessed that I live in a tolerant society but we do have some who still think they have the right to dictate my actions. My experience has been that the more masculine you look seems to predicate the unsolicited abuse you may receive. I am for all intense purposes a soft butch, not particularly masculine looking, so although I may receive looks my stature and the look I give them will make them think twice about approaching me.

It's often been said that "femmes" who are straight looking get away with more and I believe that, this may be because it feeds into the fantasy that some have. Butches have a tendency to get attention no matter what, it's how we respond to the attention which may alter encounters for the next person.

I am Old School, so walk on the outside to protect my girl, I will hold her hand, we will walk arm in arm and I will show affection with no regard unless it is unsafe to do so. Only through our actions can we help others understand that affection and love between anyone is not only okay but should be the norm.

Hugs to everyone~

Hmm slippery slop isn't it. Let me respond like this...that I think its different. Femme's deal with their own type of harassment. I can not speak for others...merely from my own experiences and from what I have seen, was told, and/or witnessed.

Since, I have not lived a femme life...I can not say that femme's are less likely to be harassed. I just think its different. Femme's that I have known in the past have commented about being able to "hide" when they needed to..so they could remain "safe." Where as for those who where butch/TG/ FTM safety was a major issue because they (me included) could not hide...the way we dressed..walked..talked...acted drew the attention of those one would not wish to draw attention from.

Back in my day beatings happened often outside of clubs...walking down the streets, outside of homes, lost jobs for many...comments thrown no matter the place..etc.

Even though times have changed these things haven't gone away..culture is a huge part of it. Depending on where you live...the religions that surround you...the age groups...the mentality of the people you deal with daily will all effect how one response in the future (no matter what it is).

Our past will either make us shy away...or give us the F*** you mentality...or for some (like me) it depends on my mood and my surroundings as to how I respond in general.

I have dealt with watching friends get hurt and killed...I have myself been attacked physically and verbally for who I am. So, now I look around..see what I am dealing with...assess the safety and think about those I am with, then deal with it in the best interest of my family.

If my partner is with me and/or the kids..then their safety comes first and for most. So, my pride and F*** you attitude needs to be placed aside.

i too am aware of my surroundings. It is so true bigotry haunts all of us who are not cut from the same mold as the heterosexual crowd.

I am very affectionate by nature. I love holding hands, having My arms around her, or My hand on the small of her back. I will also kiss/hug in public in a tasteful way. I do feel comfortable doing so but I still get worried at times depending on the crowd and where I am geographically.

When I lived in MN, I never thought twice about it. I can't remember ever getting a negative comment from anyone. When I lived in OK over 10 years ago, it was something I would not do for fear of My safety, whether actual or believed. It was something to think about.

Now that I'm back here in OK, I have been more openly affectionate but I do keep an eye on My surroundings no matter where I am. I was recently visiting My gf in Pittsburgh and we were walking along the river hand in hand. It was a very busy place and I felt comfortable until we were coming up on a boat full of about six guys who you could tell were drinking. I asked her if she thought it was safe for us to continue holding hands and she said yes. So we did and thankfully nothing happened.

Sometimes I think I worry too much but I try not to let it stop Me when I want to be affectionate. I'm just a little more cautious depending on which part of the country I am in.

Oh... I typically check with the other person to make sure they are okay with PDA before I go smacking My lips on them or holding their hand.

Here in Malaysia, my ex was very loath to hold hands (never any cheek kissing), sometimes using the hot weather (sweaty hands) as an explanation or just that we're in a homophobic society. But I see young butch femme couples walking around holding hands all the time. Or, walking very close together. (Or having sex in the toilets, but that's another story).

I don't know if it would be different - better or worse - if I were with a white partner or not. Certainly years ago in NZ I had yelling from passing cars, stones thrown, and other fun stuff while with a girlfriend and holding hands.

It was funny being in Korea. I could walk around holding any woman's hand and no one would blink an eyelid because it's culturally acceptable. I would often hold hands or walk arm in arm with my straight mate. But walk around NZ, hand in hand with one of my sisters. :| For them it's all about "someone might think we're gay."

Like lots of other people, I'm very affectionate. I'm not fond of tonsil hockey though. :|