Gas Taxes
 

Actually, if you look at the US *globally* we pay *less* for gas than, strictly speaking, we should be. The United States has artificially low gas prices. In Europe, the average price for gas is (in US Dollars and using Imperial units) just under $9.00/gal. The average price in the US is around $3.00/gal. Now, here's where it gets interesting--because Europeans pay more for gas, they drive less and use other means of transportation on a day-to-day basis. Btw. as a percentage of the price of a gallon of gas, our taxes are *far* lower than in Europe--the breakdown in Europe is around 70/30 (so the first 70% of the cost of a gallon of gas is taxes and the other 30% is the base price).

As far as where the money goes, it *should* be going to maintain the interstate highway system and local roads--that's not necessarily where the money ends up, particularly in the latter case. As far as being gouged at the pump? No, I don't because I'm well aware that just across the pond the $3.05/gal I pay for premium (no way would I put anything less than premium in my car) would cost me 3 or 4 times as much. Actually, I would like to see the United States ratchet up the price of gas with the extra funds raised going to fund public transportation and/or basic research to get us off of oil.

I don't. We Americans are far too dependent upon our cars and have made a very uncomfortable and spiky bed to lay in. It didn't *have* to be this way and it doesn't *have* to continue to be this way. The thing is, we keep putting off the day of reckoning, bargaining for one more year, six more months, one more day of getting in the car and driving the three blocks to get some milk instead of walking or riding a bike. Since it is clear we cannot legislate anything in this country any longer, the only thing that seems to work are market-pressures so the market will have to be the mechanism that forces Americans to give up our car-centric lifestyles.

Cheers
Aj

http://gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx?time=3 <-- You can use this chart to compare even Canada and the US. It appears even over a 6 year period Canada traditionally is a $1USD more.

Canada's gas tax (at least based on PetroCanada's est for 2007 was 32% http://retail.petro-canada.ca/en/fuelsavings/2139.aspx). And there it's used for infrastructure stuff amongst other things. http://www.infc.gc.ca/ip-pi/gtf-fte/gtf-fte-eng.html

Linus you bring up a good point. My brother and his partner just came back from Europe. They rented a car, and gas was very expensive there. He told me, and I maybe off a bit, but it was close to $6+/gallon. Needless to say they did a lot of walking, and sharing cab rides.

Or more, the US gov't artificially suppresses the price and impact of car driving in this nation. Canada (I can't speak for Europe since I haven't been there since I was 8) uses a lot of the taxes towards infrastructure (public transit), road improvements, etc.

I live in Washington state and I think we are probably more aware then many of how much our gas taxes are and how they are used. They are so high here that any talk of an increase gets significant media coverage. Our 37.5 cents per gallon is broken down to dozens of different things. I often hear about this group or that group that gets a half a cent or a quarter cent per gallon.

Of course, off the top of my head I can't name any, but I know that there has been several times an increase has been proposed to pay for something I thought was really weird.

Gas taxes do pay for our roads, but many states, such as Michigan, send far more to Washington than what we get back in federal transportation dollars. And you also need matching funds to get your federal funds. In this economy, a lot of states are leaving a lot of transportation money on the table in Washington.

I live in a state that is a virtual desert for public transit. We make cars here -- well, we used to make a lot more cars here not that long ago, but I digress -- and public transit here is pitiful. Cars are the way of life. I think it certainly hurts our economy that we don't have good public transit. In many cities, we can't move people out to the suburbs, where the jobs are. If they don't have a car or a ride-share, they're screwed.

Also, though my experiences in Europe are limited to the Netherlands and Belgium, I can tell you that while public transit is plentiful (trams, subway, trains, buses), it's not always on time, reliable or convenient. I only used it a couple of times, since my gf at the time who lives there has a car because she hates public transit. They don't make it easy to own a car there. Parking is a premium, taxes on your car (a monthly payment) are high and there was talk recently in the Netherlands of putting a odometer tax on cars. In other words, the government would put a device in your car that would report how many miles (sorry, kilometers) you drive in a month and then tax you for each kilometer. They are trying to raise more money to keep up their roads.

As a career public servant, I can tell you there are few, if any, perfect solutions when it comes to paying for the services the public expects.

Jake

I think it would be great if there was public transit everywhere, but it's not possible. Many rural areas where I live can't have it because the poor people wouldn't be able to pay for it. Even the town I'm in only runs regular scheduled bus service during the school year for the college. It's cheap, like 50 cents, but it could take three hours to get to your destination in town.

Basically, I just wanted to make everyone aware of what taxes are at the pump where they live. We get taxed on almost everything except maybe the air we breathe. I think the only ones that come out ahead in all this are the politicians who keep giving each other pay raises.

I'm curious, if not taxes, how do we go about paying for those things that make a civilization, well, civilized? A lot of folks complain about taxes and yet they never offer an alternative to taxes. If you're not taxed to pay for roads, how do they get paid for? I suppose private companies could build roads and then charge "whatever the market will bear" for use of those roads but is that really a good idea? If you're not taxed to pay for schools, police and fire departments how do they get paid for? How do we pay for the public libraries or, for that matter, the military?

You say the only ones who come out ahead are the politicians but consider that if it weren't for government then private companies would probably take up building roads and then charge whatever they can get away with charging (and they would have, literally, a captive audience since you would be required to pay for ANY use of the road). If private companies handled public safety (police and fire) do you want to have someone run your credit card *before* a cop or EMT is dispatched to your rescue? Don't you think it is a great thing that you can go to your public library and, for free, get books or DVDs which you only have to pay for if they are late and even then the fees are nominal? These are all benefits. Don't you think it is absolutely fabulous that you can, with a phone you can put comfortably into your pocket, call anyone with a phone anywhere on the planet? I do. The private companies don't put those satellites in orbit, NASA does. Without NASA those satellites wouldn't even exist.

We are ahead of where we would be in the arenas of public safety, public education and infrastructure if we didn't have taxes so I think that, in fact, we derive quite a large benefit for our taxes. As a Supreme Court justice remarked at the beginning of the last century "taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society".

I'm open to the idea of paying for these things without taxes if that's possible. So what would you replace taxes with?

Cheers
Aj

I would pay more taxes at the pump to see better public transit in Nashville.

Way more.

Aj, I didn't post the thread to debate you because you happen to know way more than many of us here. My sole purpose was to enlighten others to the taxes they pay in their state at the pump. I personally don't have solutions to a problem that started long ago. I always thought the tolls we paid on the roads were to go to fix the roads as needed, but perhaps I'm wrong. I also think if taxes were taken out of paychecks for roads and really anything else we may need to sustain us in this civilized society, we'd at least know how to budget better with what we have left over. Seems government has figured out what to take from our checks to pay for federal, state, social security, etc. I also think everything you said is great and yes, we've come a long way as a civilized society.

The gas tax you pay at the pump are State Taxes, and Federal taxes. Mentioned by Hack, Michigan is but one of the states that send more money to Washington D.C. via the gas tax and gets less returned to the State for transportation related infrastructure projects. California, where the most vehicles are registered in the entire nation, does not get back what our gas tax puts into the Federal pot.

At the state level, through various executive mandates the transportation funds get moved into other funding pots that have nothing to do with transportation related projects.

Finally, transportation is not restricted to automobiles and the movement of people. There is also goods (freight)movement, bicycles, pedestrians, rail, maritime.

The development of land, Land Use decisions made by local governments, Planning Commissions, City Councils impact tremendously the patterns of movement and traffic. Next time one of your local elected officials votes to build the Walmart, or the 3000 single home development in what use to be agricultural land, just remember "Nothing is for free."

I to think our gas tax should be used to fund research to wean us off of oil dependency and to build various modes of transportation. The gas tax should not go into the General Fund, ecetera.

The only thing worse than the pathetically small amount of gas tax that we pay is that the money goes to non-transportation items. Tax the shit out of it and use the money put a 24-hour bus stop on every corner in America until decent rail systems can be built.

This is timely. You might want to go take a look at this poll. I just read about it today in the online magazine Slate. It is contest for people to offer ideas, vote and comment on ways to improve transportation infrastructure.

Nimble Cities
Help Slate make transportation in and between cities more efficient, safe, and pleasant.By Tom Vanderbilt
Updated Tuesday, June 15, 2010

In the plethora of ideas, restructuring Gas Taxes is one of the ideas entered. Enjoy.



http://www.slate.com/id/2256666/

And even with the insane amount of taxes we pay on everything, they just cut all Sunday bus service in the my county. :\

Yes, I know it's not all really connected to gas taxes but it still pisses me off.

The other thing that Americans need to do is get past the conservative lie that we pay so much tax. We pay shit in taxes compared to most developed countries. The reason the we have a failing infrastructure, a failing health care system, a failing social services system, crappy transit, etc. is because we don't pay enough taxes, and too much of the taxes that we do pay go to bullshit like the defense industry.

It is kinda odd to hear people from the USA bitch about taxes and the price of gas when you live here!

However, what we get in comparison for our taxes is well worth it.

:canada: