[Bit]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Ahhhhhh, Bit. One of the "mothers" of internet stone butch theory (so to speak), in my opinion. Welcome! <tips hat>

Thank you for the welcome, Dapper, and for that very kind thought. I never thought of myself that way, yanno? To me it was the community discussions that mattered, and we were all a part of that. I learned so much during those discussions, both about others and about myself!

Originally Posted by lipstixgal

I wonder where all the stone butches are in NJ/NY they keep to themselves I think..

Ah, well, Gail, it's not exactly something that shows on the outside *soft smile* and I think most Stone Butches are private about such things with new people anyway. You could try looking for the people who make your heart sing, and just being open to as many Butches as possible; the Stone Butches I've known have all valued getting to know a potential partner before actually talking about more intimate things.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

No offense intended, more a matter of clarification and to keep us all grounded here, but since you didn't, bit, please allow me to qualify that this "self-awareness and self-confidence...this (usually hard-won) knowledge that of all the ways to be in this world and regardless of other people's judgment, this is the way that fits them best" is in your experience, and hardly applicable across the board.

There is any other possible way to interpret "what draws ME," than that it would be "in my experience"? I think that possibly you do the rest of the readers of this thread a disservice to assume they are unable to understand that I am talking about myself and my own experience, most especially since I have taken pains to make it plain that I am NOT talking about anyone else.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

I think it is a huge fallacy to assume that either stone butches or transmen universally possess this self-awareness and self-confidence

Why would anyone make such an assumption, Bent? Why wouldn't people who are reading this thread say to themselves, "well, look, Cathie is talking about the kind of people she is attracted to, Stone Butches and Transmen who happen to embody that kind of self-awareness and confidence"? Why would anyone reading this thread assume that all people are the same, and that if I have run into confident Stone Butches, then ipso facto all Stone Butches are confident?

Again, I think you are doing the readers of this thread a disservice by assuming their inability to understand that I am talking about my own experience--and I believe you are doing us all a disservice by assuming that anyone would think this is the sum total of my experience.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

that all veils of insecurity and self-doubt have been magically lifted.

My talking about what Stone Butches have done for me and meant to me does not mean the flow was all one-way; it means that in the spirit and intent of this thread as I understand it, we are speaking about ourselves, not about others. As I understand this thread, we are to speak about our own experiences--and that is what I am very plainly doing.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

While this thread is to celebrate the stone butch (and here I will also go on record that the term "stoner" is sort of offensive to me), let's not bestow upon them some elevated status or mantles of higher evolution.

Why not, if they have done the hard work that merits it?

Why not recognize those who have changed my life and healed my broken spirit as the wonderful people they are?

How could my being honest about the kind of Stone Butches and Transmen I am attracted to, the kind who have helped me so much along my way, the kind who have educated and inspired me, possibly harm anyone?

Why should I be dishonest, and pretend they are NOT wonderful people, when--speaking purely from my own experience--they ARE wonderful people?

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

Which is not at all to diminish your personal experience of the clicking of all things that matter. You are fortunate to have that, and no one can take it.

I don't know how you meant this to come across, but it seems very patronizing to me. I hope I'm wrong about your intent. I actually very much hope I'm wrong about the intent of your entire post, as I don't like to think that you would assume such ignorance of our fellow posters--or of me.