[Turtle]

The BLUE is the NEW stuff-Originally Posted by Turtle
A person may do different things with privilege - and the power that goes with it - some of may favorites being:

Notice it - be aware that you are being given undeserved benefits.

do you mean underserved as in no one should have those benefits or undeserved in that everyone should have the same benefits?
I mean that the person being given the privilege did do anything to deserve the benefit. as in being given the job because I'm blond and the boss likes blondes.

if you got the job because you're blonde and the boss is particular to blondes...would you turn it down, even if you're qualified for the position? i'm real clear on being given a pass on any number of things because the world at large perceives me as male, and assumes i have always been so. it doesn't lessen the "ick factor" for me, nor does it soothe the anger i feel. are the perks nice? uh huh. do i enjoy having them? i'd be a liar if i said no. i'm trying to figure out how to spread the wealth without cutting my own throat. ~I'm still not into spilling blood - and I try to be tru to my "Ick factor" as you say, but every circumstance is different. I read a book (B-Boy Blues) and forgive me if i use the wrong term because I'm not pulling the book out & looking it up, but a character in the book keeps a "Fuck You Account" because as a Black man in journalism he likes to be prepared for the day he has to say "fuck you" and walk off the job. The world is not fair. Ijust try to say something/do something when and where I can - it is not all the time everywhere.

Share it....and give it away - when you have a place at the privilege table, ask for other opinions, ask that the group recruit POC, Queer, female, youth etc. board members, employees, or whatever.

i would ask you the same question i asked linus...how do you give it away? you can't force those who are giving you the benefit to transfer it to someone else. if you request places at the table for others, it doesn't ensure it will happen. in a perfect world, you could ask for those things and be given them, with the thoughtless person who didn't include the others in the first place slapping their head and learning from the experience. not to say it couldn't happen..it certainly could. can you give me some real world examples of how i can use the new privilege i have to help others?Nope, there are no guarantees and we should try. When given the opportunity to speak in front of a group one can give the opportunity to someone with another voice - say, "Thank you very much and Ms. So&So can speak to that much better than I could." or This board is made up of car driving people, howcould we know if the bus schedule is working? We need to ask bus riders." Some thingsare easier (heard & seen more readily) than others. Inviting bus riders to a bus scheduling meeting will fly quicker than lots of other situations I might think of.

i guess the sticking point for me here is that i don't have a white collar job...i don't speak to groups of people, i do mostly manual labor (with the occasional round or two of office work here and there). the world i live and work in is the one i'm looking for solid ideas about. it's highly doubtful i will ever have a seat on a board or be in a position to affect hiring practices. i'm front line grunt labor. any suggestions from this angle?I'm not saying give up a job, jobs often go by connections, maybe you could give a friend a hand up. And I was thinking of social or no-profits groups with boards at church, PFLAG, community organization-type of things. If a group is all one type of looking person, other folks, particularly people who have experienced some sort of ism, may shy away if not specifically invited- and it is easy for the privileged group to not notice that is an issue. Jokes for instance - some folks think a joke is just a joke and what are you all bothered about? Well if you/your group is on the receiving end of the jokes, it could be considered harassment. I try to move in a way that's as welcoming as I can, unless you run over my toes.

And I think that the thread is exploring male privilege. I will identify trans or butch depending on the point or depth of the discussion and the person I am talking with. For me it is too long a discussion for here and now, but I choose not to take T or have surgery. I wear my hair very short and cut my sideburns off square, so approached from the back, I get called "sir" on a regular basis. I also have a soft face, large chest, and my voice will be the end of that most of the time - so I don't pass. And I am well aware of how dangerous it can be for a transman to go into a public mens room AND there are many, many privileges to being male in this society.

i agree, there are many privileges to being male in this society. there are also responsibilities and expectations that come along with it, as well. i've never had issue with using the men's room. i would assume it would be more dangerous for guys who don't pass. it's been my experience that it's far more problematic using the women's room.Problematic and noisy, yes - deadly no, for some reason some men think they can kill people who "trick" them genderwise the men's room is just not so social as the women's room is. guys go in, do their business and leave. hell, i've rarely had anyone even make eye contact with me in there. you've had different experience? Friends have, I am very picky about which men's room I'll go in

And it's fucking complicated. AND there probably some things a transguy ought not say in a room full of lesbians if he doesn't want to tick off folks, some of whom may never speak to him again.

are those things a butch could say and be given a pass on? or is it just rude in general? There are some women, which I think Linus has experienced and mentioned here or in another thread, who will declare a transman a traitor to the gender (you're not being the way i think you ought to be). A butch may not get the same level of reaction.

It's all about assumptions - people thinking we know what someone else is about because of a word, a sentence, clothes, a beard, a turban, etc. - without having the discussion.

i think people base their assumptive thoughts (or expectations) on their own experience. 'cause if it looks like a guy, it most likely is. people who have no dissonance with their gender are not forced to examine themselves or their context in the world. everything is hunky dory from the git go for them. it likely doesn't occur to them that it's not that way for others.
Exactly, people need to figure out what works best for them. It's not the same for everybody, we change of minds, we learn new ways - it's not a crime. I love learning new things, I'm not worried about thinking "Ooo, that's a better way to do it. I'll try that." Unraveling the older set of gender stuff and cutting a new path ain't easy. Talkin about it is good.

And sometimes it gets old saying that no, I don't think that cuz I look like this. And when we talk about it and share ideas I learn new ways to think about things. I am very greatful for the people who have shown me others ways to be...and especially to those who don't shed blood while doing it.

thank you for taking the time to read and engage with me. i appreciate it. engaging is good. Lurking learns, but doesn't help the discussion. Thanks to you, too.