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Old 03-21-2011, 02:01 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by EnderD_503 View Post
I had some thoughts to this post that I'm gonna throw out here. Adorable wrote on the decline of the KKK over the years, and that kind of started my train of thought here. It also makes me wonder if the strong presence of racism in some states is moreso because of the fact that the government hasn’t taken stronger measures to suppress it entirely. I know that Nazi Germany is a more extreme case, however, given where the States sits with racism/minority rights compared with modern Germany and other European nations that suffered dictatorships, I wonder why the US seems to be one of the only ones that has not remedied the effects of its past.

Because the US is different and relatively new. Our history is nothing compared to that of other countries. And, we joined in an already flourishing slave trade. We didn't invent it. In other countries whites were also slaves. So rather then it having to do with skin color, it had to do with class. There are still class and caste structures around the world that reflect less than modern thinking. We don't supress in this country for good reason. Someone would have to decide who and what should be supressed. Our freedom, my freedom, their freedom..depends entirely on respecting everyone's freedom - even if that means to hate. You will ask 30 people what shouldn't be allowed and you will get 30 different answers, all based on their personal preferences.


I decided not to use Canada as an example on this one because, even though we possess many similar laws and policies as Western Europe (primarily laws referred to in this thread: not permitting business owners to refuse service), we do not have a history of extreme xenophobia to the extent of the US, Nazi Germany or Spain under Franco. That isn’t to say we haven’t had our share in the past, because we have, however, I’m not sure that it’s comparable to the US.

Canada is just as bad.
http://www.hiddenfromhistory.org/


When Nazi Germany fell, Germany took measures (and continues to take measures) to assure that it would never be easy for a group like the Nazis to come into power again. Today these measures continue: the swastika is still banned, Neo-Nazi organisations and media are illegal (and this is taken very seriously, despite that some groups still exist) and, perhaps most importantly, the German government has hate speech laws in place that make it illegal for anyone to publicly insult, defame or generally incite hatred toward any minority group. It is also illegal to refuse service on the basis of race/ethnicity.

Germany did that which is was forced to do. Just like they didn't get to have a military anymore. The German people were not in charge following WWII anymore then the Japanese were. The nazi's represent hate and opression NOW, at the time, they were the working class party. When you combine the working class, a generally under educated population with a poor economy bad things generally happen, regardless of laws on the books.

But the US government hasn’t really taken such drastic measures. Freedom of speech laws continue to protect bigots who would, given the chance, eradicate any group that does not conform to their world view. I do not understand the need to allow free speech for people who specifically incite hatred for other groups. That kind of "freedom" does not benefit society in any way whatsoever, and instead threatens social progress. In fact, I think this is a huge reason why the US is so behind when it comes to minority/human rights compared with other Western nations, and why European neo-nazi groups are able to expand online through American domains/"free speech" laws. I understand the need to protect speech, however, that speech should only extend as far as there is no desire to eradicate or discriminate against groups based on inherent, unchangeable traits (the person themselves vs. actions committed).

Because there are plenty of people who would LOVE it if this site didn't exist. If we didn't march. If we didn't have a voice. Who is right? We are of course!

Same goes with making it illegal to allow business owners to refuse service to protected classes, including LGBT. And I do wonder whether the strong racism/homophobia etc. in certain areas of the US are not due to the US government’s negligence on actually cracking down on all avenues of racism (or all forms of bigotry for that matter), rather than the Civil Rights Act (I think progress would have been even slower without it) as you suggest.
Certain areas of the US are less educated. Education matters. I grew up lower working class. It was only through education that I realized most of what I had learned from my family was BS. Unless long held family belief's are challenged at some point in your life, the tendency is go with it. Laws help because it gets people talking about it, makes people pay for it and at least stops people from acting out. Some people realize the absurdity racism/predjudice on their own, and chose not to participate. Others need to be taught, challenged, fought with, ect.
In the US we aren't perfect. BUT there are worse places to be. The right to refuse service is a helleva lot better then being stoned to death in the public square.
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