[Nomad]

Originally Posted by Martina

I think what is different about the oppression of women in the fifties and now is that it was sold to us as the norm, as the way to be a real woman, and we believed it. When we didn't believe it, there were sanctions to enforce it, including violence. There are many women still who lack power in their relationships and who suffer because of that. When patriarchal ideology is is used to justify these conditions, as it sometimes is among conservative religious folk, it becomes that much harder for women to realize that they are being ill-treated, to find allies, and to get out.

The conservative women who live these lives and love it -- and there are a lot of them -- I say you are lucky. Lucky that it worked out for you. If you had gotten the wrong husband or perhaps had been very poor, what hell might it have been for you? I hope they think about that the next time they teach in Sunday School that women should obey their husbands.

Women really lacking power and being oppressed -- that's nothing I support in any way. Pretending to lack power in that and even more sickening scenarios -- I am up for that. I like much more twisted shit than that. (not sharing).

As for people who live something that LOOKS like a traditional hierarchical arrangement but isn't, good for you. Have at it. I mean, who cares? I don't see any group of lesbians or feminists criticizing women for choosing whatever kind of arrangements. I think for most, the operative word would be "choose." There may be a few, but it's no one's public agenda to tell folks how to relate to their partners. Feminists are too busy trying to make sure unfunded battered women's shelters stay open and busy trying to protect abortion rights.

The Martha Stewart phenomenon is, I think, bad and good. Seventies feminism was about claiming the public sphere for women. The eighties conservative reaction -- Izod and proms and Martha Stewart -- was, in part, a backlash, but in part a reclaiming of the things we liked about the world before feminism, including homemaking. Martha is more popular among working class women who don't have the time or resources to do what she does or live as she does than she ever was with upper middle class women. It's a fantasy. It's not a bad one if you don't take it too seriously. It's not just about being all things to all people, knowing everything, doing everything well. It's about pleasure and self-care. It's also about one's relationship to consumerism. Do you make it yourself or buy it? If you buy it, what are you buying? Where are you getting it from? For some people, it's a political issue, for some it's about the quality of the experience. More and more, it's about both.

The recession has resulted in more focus on the home. It's cheaper to be home than go out. And so many people have lost their homes that I think we appreciate them more. Figuring out one's relationship to the home and homemaking is not easy.

Re June Cleaver, I would do her. I would lift that shirt dress over her head and . . . .

some scattered thoughts about the items highlighted above:


i'm one of the choosers. i choose to live a "lifestyle" (hate that word) that is focused on domesticity and on my own pursuits. i'm single now, and no different than i would be if i were partnered, except that now i trade my skills for room & board. if i lived alone i'd do all of these things for myself. and when partnered, i do them for my One. but i do them as part of a dynamic that suits me. i prefer service oriented submission. it makes me happy. i've partnered with people who understand that and reciprocate and people who said they understood at the beginning and discovered later that perhaps they didnt understand at all. one thing i can always tell, the relationship is over when i go from service oriented submissive to "mule". (my term for work w/no reciprocity).

when i'm doing the domestic part of my thing in a loving, reciprocity based relationship i find that i am very happy, very sexually engaged, very devoted to working on my relationship AND very respected for what i offer. i've wanted that particular "lifestyle" since i was a kid, despite my very feminist mother's incessant objection and abhorrence of the idea. and if i have unconsciously or inadvertently called it a 50s thing, it's not with oppressive nature of those times in mind. it was with no particular thought in mind at all, frankly. not because i'm incapable but because i never thought i'd be called upon to defend it. (i am NOT saying that i'm being called upon to do that now. i do not feel anyone is attacking anyone else or being unfair. i am enjoying reading the discussion.) i never honestly thought past my own understanding of what was going on in my life, between me and a partner. if someone else sees the dynamic i have with a partner it's rare.

there definitely ARE feminists (of every variety) who are vocally and vehemently critical of my choice to be faithful to my feelings about myself and the way i interact within the self-chosen parameters of my relationships. i live with one of them now. i've encountered at least 3 or 4 dozen of like-minded people since arriving on the east coast a few months ago and i am routinely criticized on a weekly (at least) basis by a friend of my landlord for being "too fucking muck like June Cleaver". i've been told that my "lifestyle is a betrayal of feminism" or of "queer progress", i've been told i'm an "insult" to feminism, a "slap in the face to women's rights", a "traitor to women", a "lesbian poser" and a couple of worse things, including that i'm "sick". painful stuff. i usually just walk away but the few times i've engaged in conversation i've met brick wall resistance. oddly, i spend more time actively fighting for abortion rights, birth control access, homeless services and so on. most of the feminists i've met and known are content to rest on that label of honor.

as for Martha, she's impossible to achieve and i dont want to. but i'm a redesign mavin who never buys new, always makes something out of nothing, and refuses to contribute to hyper-consumerism or send more to the landfill than is necessary. i like some of her ideas but i'm more of a Maria Brito fan, but then again Brito isnt being force fed to me at every grocery check out line either. do i dig some of Martha's stuff? you bet. am i lining up for her autograph? no. MS is a brand, not a person. i like her as an idea producer. i also think she's ridiculous. she has a schedule for oiling her saddles. who the f*ck has a saddle schedule? i dont even know the bus schedule! my Stewart/Brito tendencies come from having wanted to be a designer at a very young age. i have a Masters Degree now, in something much less marketable than Interior Design and i have always regretted it. to me such things arent the consumerist facade they've become. they're about making beauty or fun or tranquility as you define it; about creating a haven away from the busy-ness of the world where you can recuperate and laugh and cry and f*ck and eat and drink and play and fight and love and relax and discover community and family and long term connection.

as for you and June, i think you should invite Martha too. she always strikes me as easily underestimated.