Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybarbara
I think, for me, because I'm a long time poster in a few forums and I read and contribute a lot of comments in news stories and unfortunately read too many you tube (I finally stopped reading you tube ones) that when we have gone in to explain with patience or with kindness even though MY feelings were hurt (offense is the feeling of hurt combined with anger) I and many others have been bitten many, many, many times. That's why there are moderators. If it was just a matter of being polite to people who hurt us, then we wouldn't need banning or time outs or terms or service.
And really I'm pretty fed up with people on internet forums being assholes. I'm going to say most of the time they don't have a neurodiverse way of looking at things. Mostly I seem people just being ignorant, willful, rude dickheads who want to be right.
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That has often been my experience. I have been bitten one too many times. It really pisses me off because here I am trying to be nice even though you’ve just said something that is painful and to my mind thoughtless. For example someone says something that is misogynistic. I find this kind of thing left unchallenged is hurtful and reinforcing of oppression that women still endure day after day after day. If I say nothing it will seem as though this is acceptable. Silence is acceptance. So I try as kindly and tactfully as possible to bring this to the attention of the poster. He or she feels attacked and reacts aggressively.
It has taken me literally decades to come to terms with the reality that facts, even in abundance and presented with unusual clarity, even in the most non confrontational way, will not necessarily change a person’s mind. After that rather frustrating insight, it has taken me still longer to understand that this phenomenon of increased strength in beliefs proven to be incorrect by facts is not just someone being stubborn and purposefully obtuse. It’s just how we humans roll.
We tend to think that if people are furnished with the facts they will become enlightened; we believe that knowledge is the best remedy against ignorance and misinformation. Unfortunately, often the opposite is true. People will become more firmly entrenched in their beliefs.
The disheartening truth is that facts do not necessarily have the power to change people’s minds. The reality is that we base our opinions on our beliefs. And beliefs don’t care diddly-squat about facts. This often forces people to choose only facts that agree with their beliefs, or to twist facts into misshapen truths otherwise known as lies, or to accept wrong information as truth simply because it reinforces their views.
Apparently facts by themselves are meaningless to our brains, they are raw data that must be processed subconsciously through our feelings and experiences and filtered through the lens of our life circumstance and molded into our judgments and personal viewpoints. These beliefs are our own, formed initially from facts and information but colored, interpreted and given meaning, often beyond recognition, by our life experience and our feelings. But from what I understand our beliefs make us feel safe. Considering that information, it is understandable that people would cling tenaciously to incorrect data and wrongheaded beliefs.
So if we choose to confront someone who is being racist or sexist or any other “ism” and think we can show them the error of their ways or even if we just engage in a debate and we believe we have enough facts to change the person’s mind we should probably think again. I’m not saying we shouldn’t do it. I’m just saying the odds of a favorable outcome are slim to none.
The more threatened we feel the more tenaciously we cling to our beliefs. People feel threatened when challenged, even if we couch that challenge in hearts and flowers. And personally I try very hard to use the hearts and flowers framing approach. I always try to be thoughtful of the feelings of others even when, no, especially when, I am trying to challenge them to reconsider something offensive that they have said. I am not always successful. I’m sure what I consider to be thoughtful and kind may not feel that way to the person I am confronting. I don’t know what to do about that. I can only try to be kind. The only other option is not to confront and that’s no option at all.
I’m not saying I challenge every single offensive comment I see. That would take a level of commitment I surely do not possess. I wouldn’t even want to. It would be like being forever adrift in negativity. I prefer to give someone the benefit of the doubt whenever possible.
What I am talking about is offensiveness of a degree that if left unchallenged would carry a level of complicity. The comment, post or thread may simply be a matter of ignorance about a particular subject or a lack of experience or exposure to something and may not be a purposeful offense. However not to challenge it suggests complicity and it is also a disservice to not attempt to help a new or even an old community member come to understand something of significant importance. I just no longer imagine a favorable outcome.
Which is a good thing for me because I used to go into these kinds of situations with such naiveté it was painful to watch. I remember on the dash site I was rather viciously attacked for suggesting to someone that they might want to consider that posting butches who wear lipstick make them want to vomit might be hurtful to a butch reading these words who wears lipstick and there might be a better way to convey this information such as saying that she prefers a butch who does not wear lipstick. She was not pleased by my suggestion. And her boyfriend was not either and he came in to help her kick me around a bit. I was puzzled that neither of them was moved that their words might be hurtful to someone else. As a matter of fact they went out of their way to say even more hurtful words. It was a lesson for me. I learned not to expect people to react well to a plea for empathy. It is very difficult for many people to put themselves in another’s place and imagine how something feels to that other person. Either that or it is difficult for them to give a shit once they do imagine how it feels to others.
Anyway back to the more important and infinitely more enjoyable conversation about HB’s boobs.