Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybarbara
I think, for me, because I'm a long time poster in a few forums and I read and contribute a lot of comments in news stories and unfortunately read too many you tube (I finally stopped reading you tube ones) that when we have gone in to explain with patience or with kindness even though MY feelings were hurt (offense is the feeling of hurt combined with anger) I and many others have been bitten many, many, many times. That's why there are moderators. If it was just a matter of being polite to people who hurt us, then we wouldn't need banning or time outs or terms or service.
And really I'm pretty fed up with people on internet forums being assholes. I'm going to say most of the time they don't have a neurodiverse way of looking at things. Mostly I seem people just being ignorant, willful, rude dickheads who want to be right.
I have seen massive clashes over difference of how to speak and joke. When Americans first come to an English board I always wince. Because they start with "why are y'all so mean and rude to each other..." And then the piss taking begins. And they don't understand that the way you deal with upset is a firm clip followed by a joke. If you take the piss out of someone the best response is to take the piss out of yourself. For example, I made a post about how upset I was about sexual harassment being a daily thing in my life and it affecting how I choose to dress every day.
One of the more trollish of the regulars said "yeah Babs, poor you. It must be so hard that everyone wants to fuck you so much. You do go on a good deal about how everyone, men, women and children want you. That must be difficult."
My response? "Oh it is, truly. But its the farm animals that bother me the most."
And that is generally how people deal with stuff. You make a joke and the other person looks like a tosser. You turn and say something earnest about your feelings and its a HUGE invite for people to see you can't take a swipe and roll with it. And you becoome a target.
Here everyone watches their language, tries to accommodate and discuss. The English humour doesn't translate to here and people get very offended.
So its the person in the minority that generally has to learn. It is really, really hard to learn the right way to do things when you have been brought up for x years to do them differently. It took me FIVE years to get a grip on English culture and how to not offend everyone, everyday. And ever after 10 years I still did because I still had to translate a lot of reactions and double guess. It did not come naturally to me. It was exhausting most of the time around certain things. I hung out with Australians and Scottish to get a break. That said northern English were a bit easier for me. Bit more blunt and blabby.
But when I came home?? Holy shit I realise how much I've been enculturated!! Everyone is soooooooooooo serious and walks on egg shells and is sooooo careful about not offending people that there is a kind of "spirit" and banter and ability to truly laugh at yourself (and you mates for being twats) and just let bullshit wash off your back that is lost and I really miss. Badly.
And again, I am offending people. And yes it totally costs me potential friendships. Like it did when I moved away 16 years ago. Like it did when I moved to work in central america.
But I am the one that has to learn. As much as I want everyone else to change. And sincerely?? I really do think everyone where I am is up their own arse and needs to learn to take a fucking joke (piss take: where you tease someone with sarcasm and black humour about something sensitive in order to make them laugh at what could be depressing)and laugh at themselves and quit being so afraid of offending people.
All this pussyfooting means people give lip service to crap in order not to offend instead of actually accepting. I dunno I tend to be of the view if you are comfortable and accepting of something you can piss take. If you are scared of being offensive and looking like a bigot....
I am not a gentle person. Nor do I expect people do be gentle with me. I can take shit on the chin and suck it up most of the time. Because I've had to learn to. That doesn't make me unempathetic. There are many times I've taken people aside on boards (especially people who aren't north american/English) after they've had a good beat down and had a bit of a pep talk.
But I have had my ass handed to me by people on boards many, many times. And often with them wearing a big fuck off rubber boot to make sure I ate my words. I don't think anyone owes it to me to be gentle if I hurt them. Hey asshat you are on my foot/oops! Sorry me and my happy clown feet trying to get overly friendly! Sorry!
I stepped on someones foot, its my error. So its my apology. And I've apologized a LOT.
I don't know what peoples intentions are, but on the net? Its pretty safe to say that someone saying something in a way people find sickish to the local custom, will get served.
But there will be people that IM them and tell them "hey, look, here, it might be an idea if..."
That doesn't happen on board because... Ugh we are queers and we have to fucking discuss everything to death and besides some of the advice about the dynamics here even with my iron balls I wouldn't say on the board in public because I'm not fond of.getting my ass kicked my admin. Which they would have to do to keep the peace.
I dunno if that is of any help, but its often helpful to know that its not you, it that other people are upset and hurt. Asking them to treat someone who hurt them better than they feel they think/believe they have been treated is probably a bit much to ask of humans, but I understand you asking. Unfortunately for me, I find that because I'm the one that's asking in the wrong way and upsetting people (and this happens fairly often...) That I have to sit down and figure out another way to ask the next few people. I've already buggered the last ones there is no way I'm going to salvage those so, onwards and upwards.
Often I have to sit down and vent, complain, brain storm with someone.
I am waaaaaaay to direct sexually and freak the hell out of people. Especially butches. Jesus wept I can't tell you the mountain of offense I've caused cause get too lazy to be be coy. And come in from the side. And let someone else lead. Which sucks because I'm mostly a submissive so the ones that like me think I'm going to kick their ass all.over the block in bitch boots and wow are they ever disapointed. I'm an aggressive cunt, I know. But to someone I'm willing to turn that over to cause I think they can handle it? Big deal.
But even my exes have told to take it down a notch. So I have to often rethink my approach after I've burned six dozen chances behind me.
It sucks but its kinda my issue. I wish to fuck everyone else would cut me some slack but... I'm 44. I know that's not how life is cut.
But its good to speak up and who knows maybe a couple of people might be more up for IMing someone after a dog pile to soothe and explain. I hope so.
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I love and relate to this so much it isn't funny. I've always been crazy-blunt myself. And, I have a sarcastic streak to my humor that's often missed. (I love the "animals" comment, btw).
You're right, everybody is different and I cannot tell you how many times I've apologized in my life. Millions at least. Even if I didn't clearly understand what I did to cause offense. I used to apologize and explain so much as a child, I got in trouble for that too. I still do it.
I, too, am usually the aggressor and end up attracting a type that doesn't work with my dynamic. I am so not coy. I'm either unable to speak or I just come out with whatever. There's never a middle ground for me.
No, I don't expect anybody to walk around on eggshells. For me, though, there is a big difference between, "Why don't you go find another board to sling your sh*t on?" and "Do you realize [such and such term] might be considered offensive?"
Is that always going to happen? No. Of course not. When someone hits a nerve, someone hits a nerve. But if you're automatically assuming everyone who writes something that could be perceived as offensive is doing it on purpose, you might come across to the poster as a threat.
I realize I'm defending a small percentage of the population here. Most can take it. I know I've had to learn how to. The first accidentally-offensive post I made got such a reaction, I almost retreated but I resisted the urge and it actually turned into a good dialogue.
Seeing intentions online is nearly impossible. That's why giving people the benefit of the doubt at first might be the best approach. After that, they're fair game.
