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Cyclopea · 11-19-2009, 11:25 PM

I understood "only another butch would understand" to mean a thread for support and bonding among butches regarding the issues and commonalities that only another butch could provide.
I did not understand it to mean "something ALL butches can understand or relate to". There is vast diversity among peeps who are butch. Age, class, education, gender, ethnicity, appearance, geography, life experience, etc. etc. I can't imagine a topic or concern that EVERY butch can understand or relate to. And why is that a bad thing?
I think a centralized thread for bonding and support that includes all types of butches does not dilute the thread's potential as a place to bond.

Someone earlier in the thread posted something about the pain of hearing emasculating things from a woman because she's pissed, and he sought support from other male-identified butches for that experience. Even though I am a butch woman, I enjoy reading and sharing the experiences of other types of butches, especially those seeking support, even if I DON'T understand them from my personal perspective. I can still empathize, and isn't that what butch-or any- bonding is all about?

One of the things that I get support around, and that only another butch would understand, is the experience of being a walking talking poster-child for "lesbianism" or "gay woman" among the general populace, 24/7, 365. And how that effects and impacts one's daily life, living - whether desiring to or not- as an ambassador of "gayness" among the public at large.
Now, I know full well this is something many butches go through. But NOT ALL, since butches are extremely diverse. I don't think that a topic set forth for butch bonding and support needs to be something universal among every butch that exists. We can all appreciate and learn from each other that way, and no one should be afraid to reach out for support and understanding out of fear that every single butch on the planet might not understand. And we should not hesitate to seek support for specifically butch concerns that might also be concerns of allies or those who do not id as butch. For example, hetero women who present visually as "butch", and others might also relate to the "gay billboard" experience I described above. Overlapping experiences should not prevent me seeking specific butch support as I see fit.

So I saw this thread as a positive place. If we need to start butch bonding threads specific to our particular type of butch, maybe that makes sense too, but I see nothing wrong with a centralized butch bonding thread.

And the "one star" rating makes me sad...

All the stuff around male privilege is very interesting but I'm not sure I see where peeps are asking for bonding and support around that? I don't at all discount that topic but I would like to see this thread get back to bonding and support for the things that only another butch can understand. Not criticizing! Just my preference and interpretation as to what this thread is intended to be...

It seems like many posts in this thread are specifically addressing the ways in which butches do NOT feel supported and understood by each other, and as valid as that conversation is it seems anathema to a thread created for butches to support and bond with each other. Good conversation, wrong thread.

My intentions for posting this are positive, and if someone wants to pick out a piece of something I said and point out how I could have stated it more clearly, that is fine. However if someone tries to turn my post into something ugly and negative and hateful- I will not respond.

Thank you for listening and thanks to all the butches who have posted, and allies.

11-19-2009, 11:25 PM	#171
Cyclopea Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Lesbian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Exit Zero Posts: 1,267 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,694 Thanked 1,615 Times in 632 Posts Rep Power: 226200	I understood "only another butch would understand" to mean a thread for support and bonding among butches regarding the issues and commonalities that only another butch could provide. I did not understand it to mean "something ALL butches can understand or relate to". There is vast diversity among peeps who are butch. Age, class, education, gender, ethnicity, appearance, geography, life experience, etc. etc. I can't imagine a topic or concern that EVERY butch can understand or relate to. And why is that a bad thing? I think a centralized thread for bonding and support that includes all types of butches does not dilute the thread's potential as a place to bond. Someone earlier in the thread posted something about the pain of hearing emasculating things from a woman because she's pissed, and he sought support from other male-identified butches for that experience. Even though I am a butch woman, I enjoy reading and sharing the experiences of other types of butches, especially those seeking support, even if I DON'T understand them from my personal perspective. I can still empathize, and isn't that what butch-or any- bonding is all about? One of the things that I get support around, and that only another butch would understand, is the experience of being a walking talking poster-child for "lesbianism" or "gay woman" among the general populace, 24/7, 365. And how that effects and impacts one's daily life, living - whether desiring to or not- as an ambassador of "gayness" among the public at large. Now, I know full well this is something many butches go through. But NOT ALL, since butches are extremely diverse. I don't think that a topic set forth for butch bonding and support needs to be something universal among every butch that exists. We can all appreciate and learn from each other that way, and no one should be afraid to reach out for support and understanding out of fear that every single butch on the planet might not understand. And we should not hesitate to seek support for specifically butch concerns that might also be concerns of allies or those who do not id as butch. For example, hetero women who present visually as "butch", and others might also relate to the "gay billboard" experience I described above. Overlapping experiences should not prevent me seeking specific butch support as I see fit. So I saw this thread as a positive place. If we need to start butch bonding threads specific to our particular type of butch, maybe that makes sense too, but I see nothing wrong with a centralized butch bonding thread. And the "one star" rating makes me sad... All the stuff around male privilege is very interesting but I'm not sure I see where peeps are asking for bonding and support around that? I don't at all discount that topic but I would like to see this thread get back to bonding and support for the things that only another butch can understand. Not criticizing! Just my preference and interpretation as to what this thread is intended to be... It seems like many posts in this thread are specifically addressing the ways in which butches do NOT feel supported and understood by each other, and as valid as that conversation is it seems anathema to a thread created for butches to support and bond with each other. Good conversation, wrong thread. My intentions for posting this are positive, and if someone wants to pick out a piece of something I said and point out how I could have stated it more clearly, that is fine. However if someone tries to turn my post into something ugly and negative and hateful- I will not respond. Thank you for listening and thanks to all the butches who have posted, and allies.