[Kobi]

Malcolm, I appreciate us having this conversation even if it is over the wording used on a public broadcast blurb which neither of us had control over. The word harmful does have negative connotations to it, thus I can understand why this might be problematical. I didnt write the blurb.

Like you, I think it is important to have these discussions, to share ideas, to clarify and address points of view, to argue language. I think it helps to look at anything from more than one point of view and to find similarities which bring us together as well as the differences which keep us apart. Learning and understanding comes in odd ways sometimes. What is important is that the dialogue continue.

In your original post, you said , " I do not think folks would be ok if "transgendering" was replaced by "lesbian" or "becoming a lesbian" and referred to as being harmful."

Honestly, I have no problem replacing transgendering with lesbian in this situation because it is opposite sides of the same coin. If I were a married hetero woman who came out 20 years later, I expect my husband would have some issues with it. The divorce and separation of property might cause issues for both of us. My kids might be taunted on the playground for have a lezzie as a mother. If I worked for a catholic school system, my lifestyle might cause me to be fired without recourse. On a personal note, my mother is still agonizing over what she did wrong to have not one but two gay kids.

Whether something is "harmful" per se is up to the person who is experiencing it. Their experience, their decision, their wording, their process, their right to speak to their experience without judgement or attempts to silence them.

Again, I didnt use the word. I spoke to the impact of life changes on us and those around us.

In spite of our best intentions and best preparations, we cant always mitigate everything and turn it into a positive experience. As you said, "There may be individuals who handle the journey of transitioning poorly. And in those cases harm may have been done. I acknowledge that."

Point taken and understood.

You also said in you latest post, "I am pretty sure it would not sit well with you if you came and saw a post dealing with the harm femist/feminism bring to themselves and their families and friends."

I actually have no qualms with this either. There is an ongoing war on women which is becoming very threatening to those of us who speak up. Thus, being a feminist, especially a radical feminist, is indeed, very harmful to oneself and to those around us.

If you look at the articles in the Misogyny thread about GamerGate, the dangers of women speaking out are very clear. Women addressing the misogyny, the sexism, the violence, the rapes in viedeo games are being threatened publicly. They are being threatened with violence to themselves and their families. They are having their names, addresses, and photos distributed almost like wanted posters. They are being forced from their homes and into hiding because of the threats. Their livelihoods are being threatened. The venues where they are to speak are being threatened with violence if they take the stage, forcing them to decide if they are going to risk the lives of those in the audience. Malcolm, this is over video games.

Sheila Jeffreys, the woman who was interviewed on this radio program is a radical feminist who speaks to the ways of the old where women organized giving their names, addresses, phone number, and holding meetings in their homes. This is no longer doable because of the threats of violence. Jeffreys cannot even have her name on the door to her office at the university because security decided it was not safe.

I know the harm that comes along with being an outspoken feminist. I know the threats come directly from males. I know the intent is to bully women into silence, so we will not rock the patriarchal boat.

What is kind of odd, to me, is the silence of men/transmen/ transgendered about these threats to women. Plato said, "Silence implies consent."

You also said, "But to see that the focus is on the harm we do to ourselves and bring to others does not sit well at all, especially on a site that includes and welcomes us."

I understand this too. The focus of the radio program was not on the “harm”. It was just one of the topics covered. The other topics were womens liberation, transgender politics, current laws pushing back womens rights and protections, a personal perspective from a detranstioning woman speaking to the harm (their words not mine) to her body and mental health, discussion of the term “transphobic” and examine how it is used to shut-down and silence feminist discourse and organizing. In addition, we will talk about the harms of transgendering to those who do it and to their family and friends.

Lesbians are also included and welcome here. You might want to visit the thread in the Red Zone entitled "Lesbian Love/Hate in our community". Just as you offered me the opportunity to substitute lesbian and feminist for trans, I invite you to substitute the word trans every time you see the word lesbian. Im curious as to how it will make you feel. Same coin, different sides.

Thank you for dialogue. My brain is appreciating being challenged and learning new stuff.

Have a good weekend.